false accusations about Rob McEwen (from invaluement) posted to this list
About once or twice a month, I google "invaluement" combined with looking for search results from the past month, to look for recent mentions of "invaluement". This not only helps me to gauge interest, it also helps me to find rare false positive "signals" that might have been just under my radar. Today, I noticed this little gem: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/opensource-wg/2020-April.txt Let me just say unequivocally that I an NOT "Rob Shultz" from Spamhaus. I've never even heard of him. If you held a gun to my head and said, "tell me all the names of those who work at Spamhaus", on a good day, when my memory is doing good, I might be able to come up with 3, and this isn't one of those. (I converse with someone there on average less than once per year.... more like once per 3 years!) I am fond of Spamhaus and I think they do great work, so I actually take this accusation as a compliment! But neither I nor invaluement is connected or associated with Spamhaus in any way. We're merely friendly competitors. The last time (and ONLY time) I saw any of them in person was at a M3WAAG conference in Atlanta in 2015. (I don't get out much!). The last time I talked to one of them was at a recent zoom-like "virtual" email conference, where that particular session had multiple participants from many anti-spam blacklists. But that was rare. Otherwise, I've maybe had 2 conversations with them in the past 5 years. We don't share ANY data with each other. Come to think of it, we really SHOULD probably communicate more often! I'm actually sort of embarrassed to admit here how little I get out and connect with others in my industry! So this post is basically loony. But I did get a good laugh out of it. Thanks for the entertainment! -- Rob McEwen https://www.invaluement.com
A normal person would sue me (or at least send me some email message) and not writing that it is a good "entertainment". But in the lawsuit all your secret acquaintances from "The Spamhaus Project" will be written, so of course that you will want to avoid it. You are "Rob Shultz" from "The Spamhaus Project" and we both know that you know (personally) many more than 3 members from "The Spamhaus Project", deny it and all your secret acquaintances from "The Spamhaus Project" will be written. You know who is the real person behind "Mike Anderson", only Spamhaus members know the real identity of "Mike Anderson". Respectfully, Elad ________________________________ From: opensource-wg <opensource-wg-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Rob McEwen <rob@invaluement.com> Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 6:26 PM To: opensource-wg@ripe.net <opensource-wg@ripe.net> Subject: [opensource-wg] false accusations about Rob McEwen (from invaluement) posted to this list About once or twice a month, I google "invaluement" combined with looking for search results from the past month, to look for recent mentions of "invaluement". This not only helps me to gauge interest, it also helps me to find rare false positive "signals" that might have been just under my radar. Today, I noticed this little gem: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/opensource-wg/2020-April.txt Let me just say unequivocally that I an NOT "Rob Shultz" from Spamhaus. I've never even heard of him. If you held a gun to my head and said, "tell me all the names of those who work at Spamhaus", on a good day, when my memory is doing good, I might be able to come up with 3, and this isn't one of those. (I converse with someone there on average less than once per year.... more like once per 3 years!) I am fond of Spamhaus and I think they do great work, so I actually take this accusation as a compliment! But neither I nor invaluement is connected or associated with Spamhaus in any way. We're merely friendly competitors. The last time (and ONLY time) I saw any of them in person was at a M3WAAG conference in Atlanta in 2015. (I don't get out much!). The last time I talked to one of them was at a recent zoom-like "virtual" email conference, where that particular session had multiple participants from many anti-spam blacklists. But that was rare. Otherwise, I've maybe had 2 conversations with them in the past 5 years. We don't share ANY data with each other. Come to think of it, we really SHOULD probably communicate more often! I'm actually sort of embarrassed to admit here how little I get out and connect with others in my industry! So this post is basically loony. But I did get a good laugh out of it. Thanks for the entertainment! -- Rob McEwen https://www.invaluement.com
Elad, Of course I have to go on public record - for any public accusation (remember, you started this). But that is really all I need to do in this case. Everything else you mentioned just isn't worth my time/money. (I barely find it worth typing this message.) The presumption in your last post is that you're worth it. You aren't. But your entertainment value is only improving! Thanks! Now - if you want to sue me or spamhaus - and have a "discovery phase" where your attorneys can legal subpoena the information that would prove or disprove - your public accusations - I hate to break it to ya - but you're going to be extremely disappointed. (at least with my identity) FINALLY - in spite of your entertainment value - if I were an admin of this list, I'd start asking you to "put up, or shut up" - if only to ensure that this list isn't starting to get "spammed" with useless information. I'm willing to stake my ENTIRE reputation on the fact that there is no way possible for you to prove that I'm "Rob Schultz" from Spamhaus. Because I'm not. You're either: (1) lying as some weird kind of practical joke OR (2) lying to just try to mess with anti-spam people OR (3) sincerely believe this is true, but in that case you'd have to be delusional (or something LIKE that) YES - that is a very serious accusation I just made - with legal ramifications - but if you were to sue me over that, there would be no possible way for you to prove that I'm "Rob Schultz" - because I'm not - and in a court, "Truth" is an absolute defense. No amount of "discovery" in the world will reveal that - because it isn't true. So tell me, why ELSE would you lie about that? Is there another option I'm not considering? But it STILL isn't worth my time/money to sue you. Rob McEwen invaluement.com On 5/7/2020 3:27 PM, Elad Cohen wrote:
A normal person would sue me (or at least send me some email message) and not writing that it is a good "entertainment".
But in the lawsuit all your secret acquaintances from "The Spamhaus Project" will be written, so of course that you will want to avoid it.
You are "Rob Shultz" from "The Spamhaus Project" and we both know that you know (personally) many more than 3 members from "The Spamhaus Project", deny it and all your secret acquaintances from "The Spamhaus Project" will be written.
You know who is the real person behind "Mike Anderson", only Spamhaus members know the real identity of "Mike Anderson".
Respectfully, Elad
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* opensource-wg <opensource-wg-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Rob McEwen <rob@invaluement.com> *Sent:* Thursday, May 7, 2020 6:26 PM *To:* opensource-wg@ripe.net <opensource-wg@ripe.net> *Subject:* [opensource-wg] false accusations about Rob McEwen (from invaluement) posted to this list
About once or twice a month, I google "invaluement" combined with looking for search results from the past month, to look for recent mentions of "invaluement". This not only helps me to gauge interest, it also helps me to find rare false positive "signals" that might have been just under my radar. Today, I noticed this little gem:
https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/opensource-wg/2020-April.txt
Let me just say unequivocally that I an NOT "Rob Shultz" from Spamhaus. I've never even heard of him. If you held a gun to my head and said, "tell me all the names of those who work at Spamhaus", on a good day, when my memory is doing good, I might be able to come up with 3, and this isn't one of those. (I converse with someone there on average less than once per year.... more like once per 3 years!) I am fond of Spamhaus and I think they do great work, so I actually take this accusation as a compliment! But neither I nor invaluement is connected or associated with Spamhaus in any way. We're merely friendly competitors. The last time (and ONLY time) I saw any of them in person was at a M3WAAG conference in Atlanta in 2015. (I don't get out much!). The last time I talked to one of them was at a recent zoom-like "virtual" email conference, where that particular session had multiple participants from many anti-spam blacklists. But that was rare. Otherwise, I've maybe had 2 conversations with them in the past 5 years. We don't share ANY data with each other. Come to think of it, we really SHOULD probably communicate more often! I'm actually sort of embarrassed to admit here how little I get out and connect with others in my industry!
So this post is basically loony. But I did get a good laugh out of it. Thanks for the entertainment!
-- Rob McEwen https://www.invaluement.com
-- Rob McEwen https://www.invaluement.com +1 (478) 475-9032
Rob Shultz, I didn't start it, your mob friends started it. ... "I'm willing to stake my ENTIRE reputation" ... - Can you confirm or deny that you know or don't know the real identify of the key person behind "The Spamhaus Project" which is "Mike Anderson" ? Only Spamhaus members knows the real identity behind "Mike Anderson", come on deny or confirm if you know his real identity or not and after it I will write his real identify and proof that you know him personally. Respectfully, Elad ________________________________ From: Rob McEwen <rob@invaluement.com> Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:06 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io>; opensource-wg@ripe.net <opensource-wg@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [opensource-wg] false accusations about Rob McEwen (from invaluement) posted to this list Elad, Of course I have to go on public record - for any public accusation (remember, you started this). But that is really all I need to do in this case. Everything else you mentioned just isn't worth my time/money. (I barely find it worth typing this message.) The presumption in your last post is that you're worth it. You aren't. But your entertainment value is only improving! Thanks! Now - if you want to sue me or spamhaus - and have a "discovery phase" where your attorneys can legal subpoena the information that would prove or disprove - your public accusations - I hate to break it to ya - but you're going to be extremely disappointed. (at least with my identity) FINALLY - in spite of your entertainment value - if I were an admin of this list, I'd start asking you to "put up, or shut up" - if only to ensure that this list isn't starting to get "spammed" with useless information. I'm willing to stake my ENTIRE reputation on the fact that there is no way possible for you to prove that I'm "Rob Schultz" from Spamhaus. Because I'm not. You're either: (1) lying as some weird kind of practical joke OR (2) lying to just try to mess with anti-spam people OR (3) sincerely believe this is true, but in that case you'd have to be delusional (or something LIKE that) YES - that is a very serious accusation I just made - with legal ramifications - but if you were to sue me over that, there would be no possible way for you to prove that I'm "Rob Schultz" - because I'm not - and in a court, "Truth" is an absolute defense. No amount of "discovery" in the world will reveal that - because it isn't true. So tell me, why ELSE would you lie about that? Is there another option I'm not considering? But it STILL isn't worth my time/money to sue you. Rob McEwen invaluement.com On 5/7/2020 3:27 PM, Elad Cohen wrote: A normal person would sue me (or at least send me some email message) and not writing that it is a good "entertainment". But in the lawsuit all your secret acquaintances from "The Spamhaus Project" will be written, so of course that you will want to avoid it. You are "Rob Shultz" from "The Spamhaus Project" and we both know that you know (personally) many more than 3 members from "The Spamhaus Project", deny it and all your secret acquaintances from "The Spamhaus Project" will be written. You know who is the real person behind "Mike Anderson", only Spamhaus members know the real identity of "Mike Anderson". Respectfully, Elad ________________________________ From: opensource-wg <opensource-wg-bounces@ripe.net><mailto:opensource-wg-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Rob McEwen <rob@invaluement.com><mailto:rob@invaluement.com> Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 6:26 PM To: opensource-wg@ripe.net<mailto:opensource-wg@ripe.net> <opensource-wg@ripe.net><mailto:opensource-wg@ripe.net> Subject: [opensource-wg] false accusations about Rob McEwen (from invaluement) posted to this list About once or twice a month, I google "invaluement" combined with looking for search results from the past month, to look for recent mentions of "invaluement". This not only helps me to gauge interest, it also helps me to find rare false positive "signals" that might have been just under my radar. Today, I noticed this little gem: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/opensource-wg/2020-April.txt Let me just say unequivocally that I an NOT "Rob Shultz" from Spamhaus. I've never even heard of him. If you held a gun to my head and said, "tell me all the names of those who work at Spamhaus", on a good day, when my memory is doing good, I might be able to come up with 3, and this isn't one of those. (I converse with someone there on average less than once per year.... more like once per 3 years!) I am fond of Spamhaus and I think they do great work, so I actually take this accusation as a compliment! But neither I nor invaluement is connected or associated with Spamhaus in any way. We're merely friendly competitors. The last time (and ONLY time) I saw any of them in person was at a M3WAAG conference in Atlanta in 2015. (I don't get out much!). The last time I talked to one of them was at a recent zoom-like "virtual" email conference, where that particular session had multiple participants from many anti-spam blacklists. But that was rare. Otherwise, I've maybe had 2 conversations with them in the past 5 years. We don't share ANY data with each other. Come to think of it, we really SHOULD probably communicate more often! I'm actually sort of embarrassed to admit here how little I get out and connect with others in my industry! So this post is basically loony. But I did get a good laugh out of it. Thanks for the entertainment! -- Rob McEwen https://www.invaluement.com -- Rob McEwen https://www.invaluement.com +1 (478) 475-9032
On 5/7/2020 4:22 PM, Elad Cohen wrote:
Can you confirm or deny that you know or don't know the real identify of the key person behind "The Spamhaus Project" which is "Mike Anderson"? Only Spamhaus members knows the real identity behind "Mike Anderson", come on deny or confirm if you know his real identity or not and after it I will write his real identify and proof that you know him personally.
Elad, I have no idea who "Mike Anderson" is - I've don't recall ever hearing that name until you brought it up in this thread. However, it is within the realm of possibility that I might know the alleged real person you claim is behind that name? That might be one of the 3 or so people who I know of at Spamhaus? But that alone wouldn't prove that I know who "Mike Anderson" is! It is possible that I might know the person you claim is hiding behind an alias, without actually ever having known that such a person was (allegedly) hiding behind THAT alias. NOTE: I just did a search of my email, going back years - and I think I'm up to knowing 5 people at Spamhaus? But I had to dig and take "trips down memory lane" to get that 3 to go up to 5. But I still probably couldn't name more than 3 of them off the top of my head at any given time. Also, I'm not going to confirm or deny ANY information about Spamhaus - ESPECIALLY if it isn't a matter of public record. Why? Because that would be unethical. Anti-spam operations are constantly subjected to abuse and attacks - even occasional death threats - and I don't want to be responsible for providing public information on any person's identity that might put that person at risk of being harmed by criminals. It's not my job to do someone else's dirty work. (or nutjob work?) ALSO - I've been involved in email security for 24 years. There are a heck of a lot of people from many many years ago with whom I've probably had extensive conversations - and now I have completely forgotten them. I don't have a photographic memory. But I don't recognize "Mike Anderson" and I can't find any record of communication in my email to/from such a person, or in any of my customer information or other notes or contact information. -- Rob McEwen https://www.invaluement.com
You are a complete liar. You are Rob Shultz. I will decide when to expose "Mike Anderson" real identity and the real identity of your other "The Spamhaus Project" mob members. You know many many more than 5 people in "The Spamhaus Project" - you know them all, personally. You claim to be involved for 24 years in the email security and also to know information which is not publicly available on "The Spamhaus Project" but never heard the name "Rob Shultz" or "Mike Anderson", yeah right. The attack on me here continued one day after I wrote your real identity to the RIPE Board and RIPE Management. In a coordinated attack on me - they attacked me here and in Nanog and with their fake media reporter that reached to me, all of these 3 things exactly at the same time and one day after I wrote your real name privately to RIPE board & management, if it wasn't true then Spamhaus wouldn't be getting into such panic and starting to attack me again after being quiet for many many months. You are Rob Shultz, keep on denying it and it will lead me to call out all your "The Spamhaus Project" mob friends and not only the few that I did. Respectfully, Elad ________________________________ From: Rob McEwen <rob@invaluement.com> Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 12:00 AM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io>; opensource-wg@ripe.net <opensource-wg@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [opensource-wg] false accusations about Rob McEwen (from invaluement) posted to this list On 5/7/2020 4:22 PM, Elad Cohen wrote: Can you confirm or deny that you know or don't know the real identify of the key person behind "The Spamhaus Project" which is "Mike Anderson"? Only Spamhaus members knows the real identity behind "Mike Anderson", come on deny or confirm if you know his real identity or not and after it I will write his real identify and proof that you know him personally. Elad, I have no idea who "Mike Anderson" is - I've don't recall ever hearing that name until you brought it up in this thread. However, it is within the realm of possibility that I might know the alleged real person you claim is behind that name? That might be one of the 3 or so people who I know of at Spamhaus? But that alone wouldn't prove that I know who "Mike Anderson" is! It is possible that I might know the person you claim is hiding behind an alias, without actually ever having known that such a person was (allegedly) hiding behind THAT alias. NOTE: I just did a search of my email, going back years - and I think I'm up to knowing 5 people at Spamhaus? But I had to dig and take "trips down memory lane" to get that 3 to go up to 5. But I still probably couldn't name more than 3 of them off the top of my head at any given time. Also, I'm not going to confirm or deny ANY information about Spamhaus - ESPECIALLY if it isn't a matter of public record. Why? Because that would be unethical. Anti-spam operations are constantly subjected to abuse and attacks - even occasional death threats - and I don't want to be responsible for providing public information on any person's identity that might put that person at risk of being harmed by criminals. It's not my job to do someone else's dirty work. (or nutjob work?) ALSO - I've been involved in email security for 24 years. There are a heck of a lot of people from many many years ago with whom I've probably had extensive conversations - and now I have completely forgotten them. I don't have a photographic memory. But I don't recognize "Mike Anderson" and I can't find any record of communication in my email to/from such a person, or in any of my customer information or other notes or contact information. -- Rob McEwen https://www.invaluement.com
Open Source List members (and Elad in special) Elad Cohen is now set to moderated on the list - meaning his post are only seen on the list after one of us WG chairs or someone from RIPE approved it. Post like his repeated past messages are NOT TOLERATED on this list. Please refer to RIPE Code of Conduct. We welcome technical disagreements and you are welcome to present weird technical ideas (specially if they are related to Open Source) on this list, but personal attacks as done by Elad are NOT allowed. Elad was warned before after his initial email and he decided to ignore it. Regards, Martin Winter Open Source WG Chair PS: While we blocked Elad, we want to offer a chance to people who were attacked to respond in a final email to correct the accusations and have the last word. On May 7 2020, at 11:32 pm, Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
You are a complete liar. You are Rob Shultz.
I will decide when to expose "Mike Anderson" real identity and the real identity of your other "The Spamhaus Project" mob members.
You know many many more than 5 people in "The Spamhaus Project" - you know them all, personally.
You claim to be involved for 24 years in the email security and also to know information which is not publicly available on "The Spamhaus Project" but never heard the name "Rob Shultz" or "Mike Anderson", yeah right.
The attack on me here continued one day after I wrote your real identity to the RIPE Board and RIPE Management. In a coordinated attack on me - they attacked me here and in Nanog and with their fake media reporter that reached to me, all of these 3 things exactly at the same time and one day after I wrote your real name privately to RIPE board & management, if it wasn't true then Spamhaus wouldn't be getting into such panic and starting to attack me again after being quiet for many many months.
You are Rob Shultz, keep on denying it and it will lead me to call out all your "The Spamhaus Project" mob friends and not only the few that I did.
Respectfully, Elad
From: Rob McEwen <rob@invaluement.com> Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 12:00 AM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io>; opensource-wg@ripe.net <opensource-wg@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [opensource-wg] false accusations about Rob McEwen (from invaluement) posted to this list
On 5/7/2020 4:22 PM, Elad Cohen wrote:
Can you confirm or deny that you know or don't know the real identify of the key person behind "The Spamhaus Project" which is "Mike Anderson"? Only Spamhaus members knows the real identity behind "Mike Anderson", come on deny or confirm if you know his real identity or not and after it I will write his real identify and proof that you know him personally.
Elad, I have no idea who "Mike Anderson" is - I've don't recall ever hearing that name until you brought it up in this thread. However, it is within the realm of possibility that I might know the alleged real person you claim is behind that name? That might be one of the 3 or so people who I know of at Spamhaus? But that alone wouldn't prove that I know who "Mike Anderson" is! It is possible that I might know the person you claim is hiding behind an alias, without actually ever having known that such a person was (allegedly) hiding behind THAT alias.
NOTE: I just did a search of my email, going back years - and I think I'm up to knowing 5 people at Spamhaus? But I had to dig and take "trips down memory lane" to get that 3 to go up to 5. But I still probably couldn't name more than 3 of them off the top of my head at any given time. Also, I'm not going to confirm or deny ANY information about Spamhaus - ESPECIALLY if it isn't a matter of public record. Why? Because that would be unethical. Anti-spam operations are constantly subjected to abuse and attacks - even occasional death threats - and I don't want to be responsible for providing public information on any person's identity that might put that person at risk of being harmed by criminals. It's not my job to do someone else's dirty work. (or nutjob work?)
ALSO - I've been involved in email security for 24 years. There are a heck of a lot of people from many many years ago with whom I've probably had extensive conversations - and now I have completely forgotten them. I don't have a photographic memory. But I don't recognize "Mike Anderson" and I can't find any record of communication in my email to/from such a person, or in any of my customer information or other notes or contact information.
-- Rob McEwen https://www.invaluement.com
_______________________________________________ opensource-wg mailing list opensource-wg@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/opensource-wg
On 5/12/2020 7:44 AM, Martin Winter wrote:
we want to offer a chance to people who were attacked to respond in a final email to correct the accusations and have the last word
For anyone who might have even the slightest suspicions about Elad's accusations, as I mentioned, I had attended the M3WAAG conference in Atlanta in 2015, and MANY very important people in the email hosting, ESP, ISP, and spam filtering industries saw me there. I had extensive face-to-face conversations with the following people: Tobias Herkula (Optivo, now with w/Cyren), Terry Zinc (then Microsoft, now w/Facebook), Tim Starr (Maropost), Alex Marinkovic (then Cox, now w/Cloudmark/Proofpoint), Bart Bailey (Earthlink, now w/Windstream), Mary Youngblood (then Teradata, now w/Adobe), Jaren Angerbauer (Proofpoint), Adam Wosotowsky (McAfee), Adrien Gendre (Vade), and I had dinner with the ENTIRE SURBL team (except Jeff Chan missed that conference - but everyone else from SURBL was there - including Raymond Dijkxhoorn & Joe Wein). Tobias was assigned to be my "mentor" since that was my first M3WAAG conference - and I joked in a room full of people about how I was "having trouble finding my mentor, but I heard that he has a red mohawk" (or whatever crazy color he had dyed his hair at that time) - while Tobias was there on the other side of the same room (as if it would be hard to spot him). Tobias and I had a great conversation during a bus ride where we compared the financial systems of Germany and the US. He was down on the US's minimum wage being so low - but I was able to future out that Germany has an apprenticeship system that is very similar, and that neutered many of his best arguments! (it was a friendly debate!) Also, in a fascinating face-to-face conversation with Mary Youngblood, I found out that Mary was the person who actually coined the phrase, "phishing", when she worked in Earthlink's spam filtering department years earlier, and had to come up with a term to satisfy a journalist who was writing at story on this new type of spam. A highlight of my life was walking to a restaurant with Joe Wein of SURBL and "comparing notes". The whole experience was AMAZING! BTW - if you ever meet Terry Zink - get him to show you his card tricks. They are AMAZING! And, to this day, Tim Starr and I are very good friends! (on facebook, we chat about politics and other topics almost daily) I also occasionally attended a few much smaller regional email "meet-ups" in the Atlanta area that were put together by Greg Kraios (then 250OK, now w/Validity) and Chris Arrendale (then Inbox Pros, now w/Trendline Interactive) ...there I met face-to-face with people such as Joey Rutledge (Mailchimp), Patrick Knight (Adobe), Nancy Harris (Sailthru), Tim Draegen (dmarcian), Taylor Jones (MessageGears), Geralmy Swint (then Trend Micro, now Adobe) Laura Atkins (Word to the Wise) - although my conversation with Laura was one-time and brief. Also, I think I saw Geralmy Swint at *both* M3WAAG and these Atlanta meetups? As I mentioned, I don't get out much - but ALL these people mentioned had face-to-face conversations with me. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. UNLIKE me, MOST of these people go to these types of conferences all the time, year-after-year, and they therefore know the Spamhaus team much better than me - and I've seen it mentioned that "Rob Shultz" does presentations at conferences like this (at least occasionally?). So I THINK (???) many of them have seen BOTH me and "Rob Shultz" face to face - so if anyone still has any doubts - ask one of them - there is probably someone you know on this list who would get a good laugh out of this too! I'm not the "liar" in this conversation. This SHOULD end all lingering doubts, if anyone had any. -- Rob McEwen https://www.invaluement.com
participants (3)
-
Elad Cohen -
Martin Winter -
Rob McEwen