Transfer Voluntary Lock 2023-03
Hello! I support this policy.
I support this policy proposal. Thank you, authors, for your work! Please ensure the feature is accompanied with a very clear and strong warning. The LIR – ideally all their users accounts – should be made very aware upfront about what they can and cannot do once the transfer lock is activated. Regards, James On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 12:09 PM Alexander Kozyar <kozyar@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello! I support this policy. --
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Maybe it'd be worth requiring all (or a majority) of user accounts on an LIR to confirm the opt-in? This would prevent potential abuse in cases of insider threats (think disgruntled employees, etc). — Maria Merkel [https://cdn.staclar.com/logos/novecore/newlogo.png] This email was sent by Staclar, Inc. Any statements contained in this email are personal to the author and are not necessarily the statements of the company unless specifically stated. Novecore and Staclar are collective trading names of Novecore Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 11748197, Novecore Licensing Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 11544982, Staclar Carrier Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 12219686, Staclar Financial Services Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 13843292 (registered offices 54 Portland Place, London, UK, W1B 1DY); Novecore Professional Services Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 13965912 (registered office 13 Freeland Park, Wareham Road, Poole, UK, BH16 6FA); Novecore (Estonia) OÜ, registered in Estonia under registry code 16543205 (local contact Baltic Business Services OÜ, Narva mnt 5, 10117 Tallinn, Estonia); Novecore (USA) Inc., registered in Delaware under file number 6707907, Novecore Licensing (USA) LLC, registered in Delaware under file number 4030866, and Staclar, Inc., registered in Delaware under file number 7413401 (registered agents The Corporation Trust Company, Corporation Trust Center, 1209 Orange St, Wilmington DE 19801, USA). Novecore Licensing Ltd. is registered for VAT in the United Kingdom under VAT registration number 347 4545 80. Novecore (Estonia) OÜ is registered for VAT in the European Union under VAT registration number EE102518979. Novecore Professional Services Ltd. is a trust or company service provider registered with and supervised by HM Revenue & Customs under the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017 (registration number XMML00000178208). Staclar Financial Services Ltd. is an Annex 1 financial institution registered with and supervised by the Financial Conduct Authority under the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017 (firm reference number 989521). Registration is not equivalent to authorisation and is not an endorsement to do business with a firm. Staclar Financial Services Ltd. is not an authorised person within the meaning of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and does not review, approve, or endorse financial promotions for securities issues it is involved in or provide any form of investment advice. [Sent from Front] On June 1, 2023 at 1:37 PM GMT+2 jameskennedy001@gmail.com<mailto:jameskennedy001@gmail.com> wrote: I support this policy proposal. Thank you, authors, for your work! Please ensure the feature is accompanied with a very clear and strong warning. The LIR – ideally all their users accounts – should be made very aware upfront about what they can and cannot do once the transfer lock is activated. Regards, James On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 12:09 PM Alexander Kozyar <kozyar@gmail.com<mailto:kozyar@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hello! I support this policy. --
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On 2023 Jun 01 (Thu) at 11:40:14 +0000 (+0000), Matthias Merkel wrote: :Maybe it'd be worth requiring all (or a majority) of user accounts on an :LIR to confirm the opt-in? This would prevent potential abuse in cases of :insider threats (think disgruntled employees, etc). : If you read the text of the proposal, the opt-in requires a director of the company to approve it. This is the same level of protection as transferring IP addresses. I think the proposal as-is has enough protection against potential abuse. -- I think that I shall never see A billboard lovely as a tree. Perhaps, unless the billboards fall I'll never see a tree at all. -- Ogden Nash
On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 12:46 PM Peter Hessler <phessler@theapt.org> wrote:
On 2023 Jun 01 (Thu) at 11:40:14 +0000 (+0000), Matthias Merkel wrote: :Maybe it'd be worth requiring all (or a majority) of user accounts on an :LIR to confirm the opt-in? This would prevent potential abuse in cases of :insider threats (think disgruntled employees, etc). :
If you read the text of the proposal, the opt-in requires a director of the company to approve it. This is the same level of protection as transferring IP addresses.
I think the proposal as-is has enough protection against potential abuse.
Agree, requiring opt-in from multiple LIR user accounts would be too rigid. But all user accounts should at least be clearly and fully informed. They can then choose to de-register from the LIR if they are not comfortable with the decision, e.g. if they don't feel safe for any reason. Regards, James
Hi guys There is no need for any consultation with end users. End Users have no say in what a resource holder does with a resource or how they manage it. Locking a resource does not affect assignments. If anything it actually gives more security to End Users. There is nothing in the transfer policy to prevent a resource being transferred with sub assignments. Locking a resource prevents the resource with assignments being transferred to another LIR. Cheers Denis On Thu, 1 Jun 2023, 13:40 Matthias Merkel, <matthias.merkel@staclar.com> wrote:
Maybe it'd be worth requiring all (or a majority) of user accounts on an LIR to confirm the opt-in? This would prevent potential abuse in cases of insider threats (think disgruntled employees, etc).
— Maria Merkel
This email was sent by Staclar, Inc. Any statements contained in this email are personal to the author and are not necessarily the statements of the company unless specifically stated.
Novecore and Staclar are collective trading names of Novecore Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 11748197, Novecore Licensing Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 11544982, Staclar Carrier Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 12219686, Staclar Financial Services Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 13843292 (registered offices 54 Portland Place, London, UK, W1B 1DY); Novecore Professional Services Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 13965912 (registered office 13 Freeland Park, Wareham Road, Poole, UK, BH16 6FA); Novecore (Estonia) OÜ, registered in Estonia under registry code 16543205 (local contact Baltic Business Services OÜ, Narva mnt 5, 10117 Tallinn, Estonia); Novecore (USA) Inc., registered in Delaware under file number 6707907, Novecore Licensing (USA) LLC, registered in Delaware under file number 4030866, and Staclar, Inc., registered in Delaware under file number 7413401 (registered agents The Corporation Trust Company, Corporation Trust Center, 1209 Orange St, Wilmington DE 19801, USA). Novecore Licensing Ltd. is registered for VAT in the United Kingdom under VAT registration number 347 4545 80. Novecore (Estonia) OÜ is registered for VAT in the European Union under VAT registration number EE102518979. Novecore Professional Services Ltd. is a trust or company service provider registered with and supervised by HM Revenue & Customs under the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017 (registration number XMML00000178208). Staclar Financial Services Ltd. is an Annex 1 financial institution registered with and supervised by the Financial Conduct Authority under the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017 (firm reference number 989521). Registration is not equivalent to authorisation and is not an endorsement to do business with a firm. Staclar Financial Services Ltd. is not an authorised person within the meaning of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and does not review, approve, or endorse financial promotions for securities issues it is involved in or provide any form of investment advice. [image: Sent from Front]
On June 1, 2023 at 1:37 PM GMT+2 jameskennedy001@gmail.com wrote:
I support this policy proposal. Thank you, authors, for your work!
Please ensure the feature is accompanied with a very clear and strong warning. The LIR – ideally all their users accounts – should be made very aware upfront about what they can and cannot do once the transfer lock is activated.
Regards, James
On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 12:09 PM Alexander Kozyar <kozyar@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello! I support this policy. --
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Hi All, nice question, and I can't find a clear answer in this policy proposal. What to do with PI networks? Who can lock it, how and why? I think this should be in the policy. 02.06.23 15:05, denis walker пише:
Hi guys
There is no need for any consultation with end users. End Users have no say in what a resource holder does with a resource or how they manage it. Locking a resource does not affect assignments. If anything it actually gives more security to End Users. There is nothing in the transfer policy to prevent a resource being transferred with sub assignments. Locking a resource prevents the resource with assignments being transferred to another LIR.
Cheers Denis
On Thu, 1 Jun 2023, 13:40 Matthias Merkel, <matthias.merkel@staclar.com <mailto:matthias.merkel@staclar.com>> wrote:
Maybe it'd be worth requiring all (or a majority) of user accounts on an LIR to confirm the opt-in? This would prevent potential abuse in cases of insider threats (think disgruntled employees, etc).
— Maria Merkel
This email was sent by Staclar, Inc. Any statements contained in this email are personal to the author and are not necessarily the statements of the company unless specifically stated.
Novecore and Staclar are collective trading names of Novecore Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 11748197, Novecore Licensing Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 11544982, Staclar Carrier Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 12219686, Staclar Financial Services Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 13843292 (registered offices 54 Portland Place, London, UK, W1B 1DY); Novecore Professional Services Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 13965912 (registered office 13 Freeland Park, Wareham Road, Poole, UK, BH16 6FA); Novecore (Estonia) OÜ, registered in Estonia under registry code 16543205 (local contact Baltic Business Services OÜ, Narva mnt 5, 10117 Tallinn, Estonia); Novecore (USA) Inc., registered in Delaware under file number 6707907, Novecore Licensing (USA) LLC, registered in Delaware under file number 4030866, and Staclar, Inc., registered in Delaware under file number 7413401 (registered agents The Corporation Trust Company, Corporation Trust Center, 1209 Orange St, Wilmington DE 19801, USA). Novecore Licensing Ltd. is registered for VAT in the United Kingdom under VAT registration number 347 4545 80. Novecore (Estonia) OÜ is registered for VAT in the European Union under VAT registration number EE102518979. Novecore Professional Services Ltd. is a trust or company service provider registered with and supervised by HM Revenue & Customs under the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017 (registration number XMML00000178208). Staclar Financial Services Ltd. is an Annex 1 financial institution registered with and supervised by the Financial Conduct Authority under the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017 (firm reference number 989521). Registration is not equivalent to authorisation and is not an endorsement to do business with a firm. Staclar Financial Services Ltd. is not an authorised person within the meaning of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and does not review, approve, or endorse financial promotions for securities issues it is involved in or provide any form of investment advice. Sent from Front
On June 1, 2023 at 1:37 PM GMT+2 jameskennedy001@gmail.com <mailto:jameskennedy001@gmail.com> wrote:
I support this policy proposal. Thank you, authors, for your work!
Please ensure the feature is accompanied with a very clear and strong warning. The LIR – ideally all their users accounts – should be made very aware upfront about what they can and cannot do once the transfer lock is activated.
Regards, James
On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 12:09 PM Alexander Kozyar <kozyar@gmail.com <mailto:kozyar@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Hello! > I support this policy. > -- > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ncc-services-wg <https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ncc-services-wg>
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Hi to everyone I support the proposal, but have a question about this: A Voluntary Transfer Lock is an agreement between a resource holder and the RIPE NCC. So, this isn't a button, this is an agreement and I should have stamp and notarized papers to use this lock? p.s. to Max Tulev: I believe answer to your question here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/proposals/2023-03
Hi, On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 11:24:08PM +0300, ?????????????? ?????????????????? wrote:
So, this isn't a button, this is an agreement and I should have stamp and notarized papers to use this lock?
We have 2023, so a duly 2FA authorized request from an authorized LIR contact is actually stronger than a random piece of paper with some fancy stamps from a random EU entity. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
So, this isn't a button, this is an agreement and I should have stamp and notarized papers to use this lock?
We have 2023, so a duly 2FA authorized request from an authorized LIR contact is actually stronger than a random piece of paper with some fancy stamps from a random EU entity.
Not everyone agrees with that. Courts, for example. Alex
Hi, On Mon, Jun 05, 2023 at 09:40:01AM +0200, Alex Le Heux wrote:
Not everyone agrees with that.
So you're saying that for this policy to become effective, the NCC should require paperwork with interesting logos and stamps on it, issued by some random official somewhere in one of the many jurisdictions, and spend our moneyz on verification that this is indeed a legally binding statement by the authorized LIR contact (and not a photoshopped version)? Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
Hi Gert, I do actually think that would be a good option, yes. Alternatively, the NCC should require all or multiple LIR contacts to confirm the request, or at the very least allow specific persons at the LIR to make them only. Ideally, this would mimic the requirements for execution of a contract by the company (not on its behalf as would be usual for most contracts). These may differ by country (and potentially even by company based on its articles), so the notary option is the easiest way to do this. For most companies, this would likely mean signatures from at least two directors or a director's signature plus a seal or stamp. If this is indeed done via notary the procedure would be fairly simple indeed. The NCC already accepts notarized statements in many cases (in fact I have had to make a sworn statement at a notary for a transfer request in the past) and is already equipped to verify them. If that isn't possible for a specific country or notary, the NCC can also request an apostille which is generally easy to verify. The transfer lock can have severe financial impact on an LIR and there is a significant risk of it being abused. There must be safeguards against this. The other problem is of course, as Alex raised, that if whatever method the NCC used is found by a court to not actually be binding on the company, the NCC may be subject to legal liability for refusing a transfer request under it. — Maria Merkel [https://cdn.staclar.com/logos/novecore/newlogo.png] This email was sent by Staclar, Inc. Any statements contained in this email are personal to the author and are not necessarily the statements of the company unless specifically stated. Novecore and Staclar are collective trading names of Novecore Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 11748197, Novecore Licensing Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 11544982, Staclar Carrier Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 12219686, Staclar Financial Services Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 13843292 (registered offices 54 Portland Place, London, UK, W1B 1DY); Novecore Professional Services Ltd., registered in England and Wales under company number 13965912 (registered office 13 Freeland Park, Wareham Road, Poole, UK, BH16 6FA); Novecore (Estonia) OÜ, registered in Estonia under registry code 16543205 (local contact Baltic Business Services OÜ, Narva mnt 5, 10117 Tallinn, Estonia); Novecore (USA) Inc., registered in Delaware under file number 6707907, Novecore Licensing (USA) LLC, registered in Delaware under file number 4030866, and Staclar, Inc., registered in Delaware under file number 7413401 (registered agents The Corporation Trust Company, Corporation Trust Center, 1209 Orange St, Wilmington DE 19801, USA). Novecore Licensing Ltd. is registered for VAT in the United Kingdom under VAT registration number 347 4545 80. Novecore (Estonia) OÜ is registered for VAT in the European Union under VAT registration number EE102518979. Novecore Professional Services Ltd. is a trust or company service provider registered with and supervised by HM Revenue & Customs under the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017 (registration number XMML00000178208). Staclar Financial Services Ltd. is an Annex 1 financial institution registered with and supervised by the Financial Conduct Authority under the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations 2017 (firm reference number 989521). Registration is not equivalent to authorisation and is not an endorsement to do business with a firm. Staclar Financial Services Ltd. is not an authorised person within the meaning of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and does not review, approve, or endorse financial promotions for securities issues it is involved in or provide any form of investment advice. [Sent from Front] On June 5, 2023 at 9:48 AM GMT+2 gert@space.net<mailto:gert@space.net> wrote: Hi, On Mon, Jun 05, 2023 at 09:40:01AM +0200, Alex Le Heux wrote:
Not everyone agrees with that.
So you're saying that for this policy to become effective, the NCC should require paperwork with interesting logos and stamps on it, issued by some random official somewhere in one of the many jurisdictions, and spend our moneyz on verification that this is indeed a legally binding statement by the authorized LIR contact (and not a photoshopped version)? Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
Alex Le Heux Network Architect Tucows Inc / Ting Fiber aleheux@tucowsinc.com
On 5 Jun 2023, at 09:48, Gert Doering <gert@space.net> wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Jun 05, 2023 at 09:40:01AM +0200, Alex Le Heux wrote:
Not everyone agrees with that.
So you're saying that for this policy to become effective, the NCC should require paperwork with interesting logos and stamps on it, issued by some random official somewhere in one of the many jurisdictions, and spend our moneyz on verification that this is indeed a legally binding statement by the authorized LIR contact (and not a photoshopped version)?
How do you read that into that single sentence I wrote? Fantasize about straw men much? :) What’’s important here is that the transfer lock has the folowing properties: - it should be easy to activate - it should be robust against legal challenges - it should not open the NCC up to poptentially unlimited liability The preceived “strenght” (whatever that means) of anyone's favourite authentication crypto vs notarized documents has very little bearing on any of this. Alex
I did not find anything about PI there. We assume that PA holders can use a "red button" inside their LIR portal (it is not stated in the document too, but I think that's ok). Where will be the "red button" for PI? Who can use it (their LIR? themselves in some webpage?) and how? 02.06.23 23:24, Михайло Кононихін пише:
p.s. to Max Tulev: I believe answer to your question here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/proposals/2023-03 <https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/proposals/2023-03>
There are 24 mentions of the phrase "resource holder". Doesn't it mean any resource holder, not just LIRs? I believe it includes organizations with PI. BTW, PI resources are easier to protect: you can transfer them to any organization, don't need LIR. Transfer locks for 2 years. сб, 3 июн. 2023 г. в 17:50, Max Tulyev <maxtul@netassist.ua>:
I did not find anything about PI there.
We assume that PA holders can use a "red button" inside their LIR portal (it is not stated in the document too, but I think that's ok). Where will be the "red button" for PI? Who can use it (their LIR? themselves in some webpage?) and how?
02.06.23 23:24, Михайло Кононихін пише:
p.s. to Max Tulev: I believe answer to your question here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/proposals/2023-03 <https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/proposals/2023-03>
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03.06.23 18:44, Михайло Кононихін пише:
There are 24 mentions of the phrase "resource holder". Doesn't it mean any resource holder, not just LIRs? I believe it includes organizations with PI.
I agree. But I don't see the way how it (will be) implemented technically. I think let LIRs be able to push the button for PI holders is a bad idea.
BTW, PI resources are easier to protect: you can transfer them to any organization, don't need LIR. Transfer locks for 2 years.
Yes, a bit easier. You don't need a LIR for receiving company.
I think also that it is a bad idea to let a LIR push the Transfer Lock button on behalf of PI holders. On Mon, 5 Jun 2023 at 21:47, Max Tulyev <maxtul@netassist.ua> wrote:
03.06.23 18:44, Михайло Кононихін пише:
There are 24 mentions of the phrase "resource holder". Doesn't it mean any resource holder, not just LIRs? I believe it includes organizations with PI.
I agree. But I don't see the way how it (will be) implemented technically.
I think let LIRs be able to push the button for PI holders is a bad idea.
BTW, PI resources are easier to protect: you can transfer them to any organization, don't need LIR. Transfer locks for 2 years.
Yes, a bit easier. You don't need a LIR for receiving company.
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as long as the PI holders can change the sponsoring LIR, I think that is fine. Arash On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 at 13:15, Olha Sira <vasylevych@gmail.com> wrote:
I think also that it is a bad idea to let a LIR push the Transfer Lock button on behalf of PI holders.
On Mon, 5 Jun 2023 at 21:47, Max Tulyev <maxtul@netassist.ua> wrote:
03.06.23 18:44, Михайло Кононихін пише:
There are 24 mentions of the phrase "resource holder". Doesn't it mean any resource holder, not just LIRs? I believe it includes organizations with PI.
I agree. But I don't see the way how it (will be) implemented technically.
I think let LIRs be able to push the button for PI holders is a bad idea.
BTW, PI resources are easier to protect: you can transfer them to any organization, don't need LIR. Transfer locks for 2 years.
Yes, a bit easier. You don't need a LIR for receiving company.
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I’m also support this policy proposal. Thanks a lot, authors.
On 1 Jun 2023, at 14:37, James Kennedy <jameskennedy001@gmail.com> wrote:
I support this policy proposal. Thank you, authors, for your work!
Please ensure the feature is accompanied with a very clear and strong warning. The LIR – ideally all their users accounts – should be made very aware upfront about what they can and cannot do once the transfer lock is activated.
Regards, James
On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 12:09 PM Alexander Kozyar <kozyar@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello! I support this policy. --
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— Serg Galat
participants (13)
-
Alex Le Heux -
Alexander Kozyar -
Arash Naderpour -
denis walker -
Gert Doering -
James Kennedy -
Maria Merkel -
Matthias Merkel -
Max Tulyev -
Olha Sira -
Peter Hessler -
Serg Galat -
Михайло Кононихін