On 18 Sep 2012, at 22:40, Erik Bais wrote:

So, all jokes aside, what is the reply that is provided to the writer and if he would show up at the RIPE meeting, will he be provided any room to discuss the topic and will the request for a resolution be discussed during the GM meeting?

This is why Axel, Nigel and Rob earn the big bucks. :-) I am sure they will be arranging a suitable response to Ambassador Wallace and this will involve discussion with the NCC's lawyers and the Dutch government. We should leave them to get on with it. Once there's anything significant to report, I'm sure we'll hear about it at RIPE65 and/or on the mailing lists. Ambassador Wallace is of course welcome to attend the RIPE meeting and request agenda time to discuss whatever takes his fancy, just like President Ahmadinejad or anybody else. If they ask Axel nicely, they can attend the GM as observers. I very much doubt Ambassador Wallace or President Ahmadinejad represents an NCC member (or would be a proxy for one) and be automatically entitled to attend the GM. UANI's resolution almost certainly can't be discussed at next week's GM. The NCC's Articles of Association (http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-534 ) clearly state the requirements for a GM resolution. See Article 15.6 and 15.7. Resolutions have to be sent to the membership at least 2 weeks before the GM. They also need to have the support of 2% of the membership. It's not clear if UANI has lined up that support. Or if those members have submitted a resolution in time. If you're an LIR -- I'm not -- you would have been notified about that GM resolution by now. FWIW, there are so many things wrong with the Ambassador's letter, there's no point discussing it here. That discussion would be unhelpful and counter-productive too. Ambassador Wallace is no longer in office, so it's not clear if he's acting on behalf of the US government or what influence he has there. He would have left USG when President Obama was elected and the officials appointed by his predecessor were replaced. UANI seems to be a pressure group with powerful and influentual friends. Its boards have quite a few ex-heads of western intelligence services, Tony Blair's Downing Street Chief of Staff, etc. UANI's web site says it has been able to get multinational companies to stop doing business with Iran. So this situation is going to need very, very careful handling. IMO we should trust this to RIPE (NCC) management and their legal advisers. It's why they're there to represent us. We can also expect more of these layer 10 and up issues in the years ahead. Sign of the times I suppose. Hey it could be worse. Imagine ARIN's problems because of USG policy on Cuba.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I reply on list as I'm a little upset on this. This simply isn't the job of the world-wide-web to enforce political interests and it would be fully wrong to do that! And it's against the democracy, the Internet and what "freedom of speech" stands for! Because if one re-thinks very closely, thats whats terrorists are about: tear down our lives to fear, "over-control" and close to dictatorial systems. Do we want that? I say no. Now, I have to point out that I'm rather atheist, not christian, not muslim, nor jew (ok, rather christian but more due to my understanding of values I learned when I grew up) I'd *never* say that I agree with what the Mullahs (German, sorry found no translation: "Turban-Flattermänner") actually do BUT: This is nothing to be solved by us at all on the net! The Internet is open - and thats a very, very good thing at first, second and third. The regime there already does massive intrusion as we know (we delivered the technology to enable that, CA's all over the world are willing to sell certificates for *.* etc .- thats something better to fight against! cause thats very ridiciculous! RIPE-Community should be a really trusted CA i.e.) But to block them by IP would also mean to block any other opinion there.. I'm not very political but I'm sure there *are* other opinions also there. The more interesting question would be: who sent that? I'd guess on someone that wants to drive a war forward, when we read that, we should be aware of this matter.. I wouldnt under-estimate intelligence services, they did much greater Jobs in the past (Stuxnet) than blending the public like this.. Please: Dont get me wrong! but in ncc-services-wg we're also not in the club of "USA/Israel just wants to bomb out Iran and tries to find better reasons" ;) So basically this is fully OT - and the request from "UANI" even worse OT. Finally, I wonder why this fax hasnt just been sent to the bin without any notice.. Though, it's interesting to find out who stands behind that ;) Michael -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlBZJOEACgkQaWRHV2kMuAI8ygCcCgb/vaayWaKsoQJkE5tjSvZv tZYAn3mn7yF97m4UxNjUPlMc0+W3dLtb =APGq -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On 18/09/2012 22:40, Erik Bais wrote:

So, all jokes aside, what is the reply that is provided to the writer and if he would show up at the RIPE meeting, will he be provided any room to discuss the topic and will the request for a resolution be discussed during the GM meeting?

Lawyers have been consulted. The reply was "Thanks for your fax". As Jim has pointed out there can't be a GM resolution raised as we are too late to change the agenda (Articles of Association rules). And unless Ambassador Wallace is associated with a RIPE NCC member he needs to ask me (not Axel) for permission to attend, as an observer (which means he can't speak). I would, of course, give the request due consideration. I expect there will be more on this next week at the NCC Service WG. All the best Nigel

Hi Erik, et al, Aside from the initial reactions, I believe this discussion should happen very soon. My personal view on Internet-resources is about equal to other resources such as metal or stone. You can build bridges from steel or swords to create weapons. If we let IP/The Internet in general be mistaken as a aid for creating weapons - or even consider it a weapon (which is not too far away, if we consider the current level of cyber warfare) then WE as human race are in deep trouble. The Internet should help to overcome language and distance barriers for communications, which is an essential desire. We can and should not let organizations, be it the UANI, goverments or military organization let dictate WHAT and HOW to use this infrastructure. IMHO it is the most demographic tool we have today in order to communicate quick and effective - with minor censorship. Even China is learning that their firewall maybe getting WAY too big too handle soon. Simply filtering "Ferrari" in search-terms simply doesn't cut it in order to betray their own people. I believe it's time to get up and find supporters to continue the free Internet as we have known it for almost 30 years now. Best regards, Kurt Kayser