Transferring responsibility for PI space from LIRa to LIRb
Does anyone happen to know by heart where I could read up on how to transfer responsibility for PI space from LIR-a (our's) to LIR-b (a recently established one). I am interested in both the "responsibility" apect i.e. DB and NCC Hostmaster's stuff as well as the billing stuff (i.e. size category). TIA, Wilfried.
Hello Wilfried, I don't think there is an official procedure but try contacting the hostmaster and ask for the transfer. We have done this once and all that was necessary was an email with some sort of acknowledgement from the receiving LIR. Gunther
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: ncc-services-wg-admin@ripe.net [mailto:ncc-services-wg-admin@ripe.net] Im Auftrag von Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. Mai 2006 15:13 An: ncc-services-wg@ripe.net Betreff: [ncc-services-wg] Transferring responsibility for PI space from LIRa to LIRb
Does anyone happen to know by heart where I could read up on how to transfer responsibility for PI space from LIR-a (our's) to LIR-b (a recently established one).
I am interested in both the "responsibility" apect i.e. DB and NCC Hostmaster's stuff as well as the billing stuff (i.e. size category).
TIA, Wilfried.
Hi! LIR interacts with PI space and ASes only once, at the registration stage. After objects are registered, LIR don't support it anymore. PI/AS is billed only once, so there is no need to transfer billing stuff. At the database it is not a good idea to let LIR to be maintaier of your PI/AS, so use your mntner to maintain it in DB. Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet wrote:
Does anyone happen to know by heart where I could read up on how to transfer responsibility for PI space from LIR-a (our's) to LIR-b (a recently established one).
I am interested in both the "responsibility" apect i.e. DB and NCC Hostmaster's stuff as well as the billing stuff (i.e. size category).
TIA, Wilfried.
-- WBR, Maxim V. Tulyev (MT6561-RIPE, 2:463/253@FIDO)
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: ncc-services-wg-admin@ripe.net [mailto:ncc-services-wg-admin@ripe.net] Im Auftrag von Max Tulyev Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. Mai 2006 16:16 An: ncc-services-wg@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [ncc-services-wg] Transferring responsibility for PI space from LIRa to LIRb
Hi!
LIR interacts with PI space and ASes only once, at the registration stage. After objects are registered, LIR don't support it anymore.
PI/AS is billed only once, so there is no need to transfer billing stuff. That is not correct. Your RIPE billing-score does also contain the elder assignments although they are weakened by some sort of time factor. If you're losing a customer who's using PI-space try to get rid of the space on your lir-account and move it to the customer's new lir.
Gunther
At the database it is not a good idea to let LIR to be maintaier of your PI/AS, so use your mntner to maintain it in DB.
Hi, On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 05:17:24PM +0200, Gunther Stammwitz wrote:
PI/AS is billed only once, so there is no need to transfer billing stuff. That is not correct. Your RIPE billing-score does also contain the elder assignments although they are weakened by some sort of time factor.
True for PA, but not true for PI. Read it up in the "NCC charging scheme" document, ripe-360.txt. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 92315 SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 D- 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-234
Hi, Gert Doering wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 05:17:24PM +0200, Gunther Stammwitz wrote:
PI/AS is billed only once, so there is no need to transfer billing stuff. That is not correct. Your RIPE billing-score does also contain the elder assignments although they are weakened by some sort of time factor.
True for PA, but not true for PI. Read it up in the "NCC charging scheme" document, ripe-360.txt.
uhm, i think it's not true for pre-Oct2004 PI, but true for newer Assignments?
From ripe-360: -----8<----- Note: AS Numbers, PI IPv4 and IPv6 special purpose assignments issued before 1 October 2004 will NOT count toward the 2006 billing score. -----8<-----
So recent PI Assignments should count for the membership category points this year and in the years coming. ...as far as i understand ripe-360 - or do i miss something? I have no post-Oct2004 Assignments so i can't do a reality-check on it ;-) -- ======================================================================== = Sascha Lenz SLZ-RIPE slz@baycix.de = = Network Operations = = BayCIX GmbH, Landshut * PGP public Key on demand * = ========================================================================
Hi, ..hm on a second thought... Sascha Lenz wrote:
Hi,
Gert Doering wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 05:17:24PM +0200, Gunther Stammwitz wrote:
PI/AS is billed only once, so there is no need to transfer billing stuff. That is not correct. Your RIPE billing-score does also contain the elder assignments although they are weakened by some sort of time factor. True for PA, but not true for PI. Read it up in the "NCC charging scheme" document, ripe-360.txt.
uhm, i think it's not true for pre-Oct2004 PI, but true for newer Assignments?
From ripe-360: -----8<----- Note: AS Numbers, PI IPv4 and IPv6 special purpose assignments issued before 1 October 2004 will NOT count toward the 2006 billing score. -----8<-----
So recent PI Assignments should count for the membership category points this year and in the years coming.
...as far as i understand ripe-360 - or do i miss something? I have no post-Oct2004 Assignments so i can't do a reality-check on it ;-)
...probably the Charging Scheme next year excludes Pre-Oct2005 PI/AS Assignments so we're back to "one time fee" But that's not really clear from the document itself, just by reading the previous, obsoleted charging scheme documents (ripe-330)... -- ======================================================================== = Sascha Lenz SLZ-RIPE slz@baycix.de = = Network Operations = = BayCIX GmbH, Landshut * PGP public Key on demand * = ========================================================================
Sascha Lenz wrote:
Hi,
OMG, that's an interesting way of hiding it ;-)
...probably the Charging Scheme next year excludes Pre-Oct2005 PI/AS Assignments so we're back to "one time fee"
But that's not really clear from the document itself, just by reading the previous, obsoleted charging scheme documents (ripe-330)...
I kept re-reading and searching this text, but was too stupid to succeed in reverse engineering that clause. Sigh. I'll talk to Jochem to try and get it re-worded - unless it is done "on purpose". Thanks to all who contributed! Wilfried.
Dear Wilfried and all, When making a transfer of one or more allocation or assignment from one registry to another we charge a one-time administration fee, currently EUR 1,000. This fee is also charged when one registry takes over another registry. The scoring of IPv4 PI space in the billing score of a registry counts at the moment as one time score taken into account to determine the billing category of a registry. Only PI space assigned in the last 12 months is taken into account. Historically this has changed in 2004 we introduced a new charging scheme structure including IPv6, ASNs and IPv4 PI space into the billing score algorithm. IPv4 PI and PA blocks scored identical, all allocations / assignments were taken into account including blocks "older" than 1 year. Of course the relevance towards a registry score of PI blocks was small as the PI blocks are generally smaller than PA. We received several comments from registries who argued that the PI blocks they were scored for were used by customers who did not do any business anymore with them. They perceived it as unfair to be scored for a resource they had nothing to do with. In 2005 we amended the billing score so that only the PI blocks from the last 12 months were taken into account (a one time score towards the billing score) and the weight of the score of PI blocks was increased. In 2006 we maintained the same scoring and only changed the wording (which still needs a bit of improvement as already pointed out). For more information see the Charging Schemes 2005 - 2006: ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-293.pdf ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-330.pdf ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-360.pdf So I will use this opportunity to ask you for feedback on the scoring of PI space so that we can take the feedback into account for the charging scheme 2007. Regards, Jochem de Ruig RIPE NCC At 10:02 PM 5/17/2006 +0000, Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet wrote:
Sascha Lenz wrote:
Hi,
OMG, that's an interesting way of hiding it ;-)
...probably the Charging Scheme next year excludes Pre-Oct2005 PI/AS Assignments so we're back to "one time fee"
But that's not really clear from the document itself, just by reading the previous, obsoleted charging scheme documents (ripe-330)...
I kept re-reading and searching this text, but was too stupid to succeed in reverse engineering that clause. Sigh.
I'll talk to Jochem to try and get it re-worded - unless it is done "on purpose".
Thanks to all who contributed! Wilfried.
Hi, On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 05:42:48PM +0200, Sascha Lenz wrote:
uhm, i think it's not true for pre-Oct2004 PI, but true for newer Assignments? [..] So recent PI Assignments should count for the membership category points this year and in the years coming.
Indeed, you're right. I was sure I had a reference somewhere that PI (and AS numbers) only count for the year of allocation/assignment, but that must have been an earlier document. OTOH the charging scheme for 2007 hasn't yet been approved by the AGM anyway, so it's hard to make any definite statements about it. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 92315 SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 D- 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-234
Hi, Can it be RIPE NCC remembers ALL assignment from for example 1992 in 2007 billing scheme? ;) Gert Doering wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 05:42:48PM +0200, Sascha Lenz wrote:
uhm, i think it's not true for pre-Oct2004 PI, but true for newer Assignments?
[..]
So recent PI Assignments should count for the membership category points this year and in the years coming.
Indeed, you're right. I was sure I had a reference somewhere that PI (and AS numbers) only count for the year of allocation/assignment, but that must have been an earlier document.
OTOH the charging scheme for 2007 hasn't yet been approved by the AGM anyway, so it's hard to make any definite statements about it.
Gert Doering -- NetMaster
-- WBR, Maxim V. Tulyev (MT6561-RIPE, 2:463/253@FIDO)
participants (6)
-
Gert Doering -
Gunther Stammwitz -
Jochem de Ruig -
Max Tulyev -
Sascha Lenz -
Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet