Folks, I have carefully read the various postings on the list and I think it is time for me to step forward and try to help in answer/clarify some of the less informed opinions that were expressed. The RIPE/RIPE-NCC issue. Formally Gert is right, but to some extend also the people who say RIPE and the RIPE-NCC are the same thing are somewhat right too, it all depends on how one look at it. In the early years RIPE was some 15-20 people in a room 3 times a year, (almost only from research and academic institutions) trying to coordinate the European IP networks activities and operations. Among the matters at hand it was the need to get IP address space from IANA, and also the need to perform a number of related technical activities that would allow the embryo of the European Internet to grow and function. Soon it became obvious to these people that it was not possible to do that via "volunteers" work, but some dedicated staff was necessary. Shortly thereafter the RIPE-NCC was born, its purpose to get address blocks from IANA, to be distributed locally, and to perform all the technical functions deemed necessary by the community. Back then the relationship between RIPE and the RIPE-NCC was quite obvious to everybody, also because the people participating at RIPE meetings represented pretty much 100% of the "customers" of the RIPE-NCC services: RIPE would discuss and approve the policy to be implemented by the RIPE-NCC. RIPE would also provide input, discuss and approve the activity plan of the RIPE-NCC. As of today the RIPE-NCC still implement the policies discussed and approved at RIPE meetings (yes, yes, Randy, I am aware of the criticism that the process is not altogether transparent anymore), and still seek guidelines from RIPE about technical activities. The main difference is that no longer 100% of the membership of the RIPE-NCC attend RIPE meetings (but only some 10% on average) and that the Activity plan/budget/fees are formally approved by those members who show up at the AGMs. From this point of view, for the members who do not attend either RIPE meetings or AGMs, RIPE and the RIPE-NCC are perceived as the same thing, although formally they are not. (notice that if from now on the RIPE-NCC AGM is held back to back with RIPE meetings this will probably increase this perception). Most of the organizations that joined the RIPE-NCC in the last 3-4 years (and they represent the majority of the membership now) seem to have no idea of all the above, and only joined the RIPE-NCC organization because their corporations need IP addresses and AS numbers to sell their business and make money. They could not care less about attending RIPE meetings (short or long), conservation of Ipv4 address space, and all the policies that were discussed and approved for that purpose, nor for the various technical activities that go with it, to make sure it works, or to anticipate possible future issues and make the Internet a better place, all they want is address space (and they only want to pay for that, darn!), and quick, because every customer lost represent a step toward bankruptcy or toward acquisition by some bigger fish, so for them the RIPE-NCC is only a monopolistic obstacle to their business. As it was stated on the list: nobody has objection to what the RIPE-NCC has been doing or how its being done, its more an objection of the "forced" participation through the funding of the NCC which is completely unfair. I can see very well this point of view, and having been in the research world for quite sometime I can also see very well why, IMHO, it is flawed. Mind you, I am not stating here that the RIPE-NCC is lean and mean as I would like it to be, there is definitely room for progress, but I have to say I think it seems a very non-educated idea to me to split the funding this way. The Board-has-is-head-in-the-sand-and-does-not-realize-the-situation issue. Well, I can only speak for myself of course, but putting my board hat on I can tell you that I am very well aware of the fact that the Internet boom has caused, in the last few years, a gap between RIPE/the RIPE-NCC and its membership, and it took quite sometime to wake up and get the ball rolling to fix the situation, I plead guilty as charged here. I think, however, that a number of steps have been taken in the last 12 months or so to close the gap (the new proposed billing categories, the new algorithm taking in account Ipv6 and assignment dates to compute the fees, the survey, and this list being few examples) and more will be taken following member's input once we get it. As I stated already, anybody should feel free to approach us either at meetings, via mail, or by phone, all our data is available on the web site. Btw, I also welcome any proposal anybody wants to discuss and put before the AGM (and I do not see why anybody would not be willing to be seen "above the walls", anyway, what is he concerned about?), there are various ways to reach members and try to build enough consensus for that, via mailing lists (this one for instance), or just by looking at the web site, the full list is available there. In conclusion I can assure everybody that the board is carefully listening in the discussion and has the highest interest to follow and implement the willingness of the majority of the RIPE-NCC members. Cheers Daniele