RIPE NCC as escrow
Hello All! I would like to ask (and may be start a policy proposal) either RIPE NCC has or plan to implement the escrow service for members? People from a lot of countries and companies buy and sell IPv4 address space now. As the price of that resource is high, cost of that deals raise to millions of Euros. So it is a bit scare and even danger to send some millions to some unknown company in doubtful place. Why RIPE NCC? 1. RIPE NCC is exactly that entity who do (or reject to do) the IPv4 transfer. Tha't the main point. RIPE NCC hostmasters using RIPE rules evaluate the request and papers for IP transfer. Most of all escrow companies don't even know what IP address is, and who is wrong or right in potential conflict based on IP transfer. 2. RIPE NCC itself has enough financial resources to garant that type of deals, even if this is several millions of Euros. 3. Unlike any other escrow agencies, RIPE NCC has maximum level of trust at both buying and selling IPv4 parties. How it can be realised? 1. Both parties agrees use RIPE NCC as escrow. 2. (optional) RIPE NCC pre-evaluate transfer request to find common mistakes or problems, like 24-month ban for transfer of already transferred resources, etc. 3. If all seems good for the first view, Buyer sends money to RIPE NCC. 4. RIPE NCC receives money and informs seller about it, and exact amount of money was received. 5. Buyer and Seller signs transfer contract and RIPE NCC hostmasters start to evaluate a transfer request. 6. If transfer fails for any reason (no signed contract, bad papers, etc), RIPE NCC returns payment to the Buyer. If transfer went good, RIPE NCC releases money to the Seller. I believe all members trade their IP resources will be happy to have that service! ;)
At 18:55 17/12/2015 +0200, Max Tulyev wrote: I would be in favor of this proposal if RIPE NCC gets to keep 10% of all monies transferred and this money would be used strictly to lower the yearly membership fees. -Hank
Hello All!
I would like to ask (and may be start a policy proposal) either RIPE NCC has or plan to implement the escrow service for members?
People from a lot of countries and companies buy and sell IPv4 address space now. As the price of that resource is high, cost of that deals raise to millions of Euros. So it is a bit scare and even danger to send some millions to some unknown company in doubtful place.
Why RIPE NCC? 1. RIPE NCC is exactly that entity who do (or reject to do) the IPv4 transfer. Tha't the main point. RIPE NCC hostmasters using RIPE rules evaluate the request and papers for IP transfer. Most of all escrow companies don't even know what IP address is, and who is wrong or right in potential conflict based on IP transfer. 2. RIPE NCC itself has enough financial resources to garant that type of deals, even if this is several millions of Euros. 3. Unlike any other escrow agencies, RIPE NCC has maximum level of trust at both buying and selling IPv4 parties.
How it can be realised? 1. Both parties agrees use RIPE NCC as escrow. 2. (optional) RIPE NCC pre-evaluate transfer request to find common mistakes or problems, like 24-month ban for transfer of already transferred resources, etc. 3. If all seems good for the first view, Buyer sends money to RIPE NCC. 4. RIPE NCC receives money and informs seller about it, and exact amount of money was received. 5. Buyer and Seller signs transfer contract and RIPE NCC hostmasters start to evaluate a transfer request. 6. If transfer fails for any reason (no signed contract, bad papers, etc), RIPE NCC returns payment to the Buyer. If transfer went good, RIPE NCC releases money to the Seller.
I believe all members trade their IP resources will be happy to have that service! ;)
I'm also in favour of the proposal. I like Hank's idea, though I wonder if charging 10% is competitive, and if the relevant governing legislation permits it? -Niall
-----Original Message----- From: ncc-services-wg [mailto:ncc-services-wg-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Hank Nussbacher Sent: 17 December 2015 20:04 To: Max Tulyev; ncc-services-wg@ripe.net Subject: Re: [ncc-services-wg] RIPE NCC as escrow
At 18:55 17/12/2015 +0200, Max Tulyev wrote:
I would be in favor of this proposal if RIPE NCC gets to keep 10% of all monies transferred and this money would be used strictly to lower the yearly membership fees.
-Hank
Hello All!
I would like to ask (and may be start a policy proposal) either RIPE NCC has or plan to implement the escrow service for members?
People from a lot of countries and companies buy and sell IPv4 address space now. As the price of that resource is high, cost of that deals raise to millions of Euros. So it is a bit scare and even danger to send some millions to some unknown company in doubtful place.
Why RIPE NCC? 1. RIPE NCC is exactly that entity who do (or reject to do) the IPv4 transfer. Tha't the main point. RIPE NCC hostmasters using RIPE rules evaluate the request and papers for IP transfer. Most of all escrow companies don't even know what IP address is, and who is wrong or right in potential conflict based on IP transfer. 2. RIPE NCC itself has enough financial resources to garant that type of deals, even if this is several millions of Euros. 3. Unlike any other escrow agencies, RIPE NCC has maximum level of trust at both buying and selling IPv4 parties.
How it can be realised? 1. Both parties agrees use RIPE NCC as escrow. 2. (optional) RIPE NCC pre-evaluate transfer request to find common mistakes or problems, like 24-month ban for transfer of already transferred resources, etc. 3. If all seems good for the first view, Buyer sends money to RIPE NCC. 4. RIPE NCC receives money and informs seller about it, and exact amount of money was received. 5. Buyer and Seller signs transfer contract and RIPE NCC hostmasters start to evaluate a transfer request. 6. If transfer fails for any reason (no signed contract, bad papers, etc), RIPE NCC returns payment to the Buyer. If transfer went good, RIPE NCC releases money to the Seller.
I believe all members trade their IP resources will be happy to have that service! ;)
Hi Max, The RIPE NCC should not be in the financial process of the transfers, nor should it be part of the financial part of transfers. Second, their current tax status will not allow for this kind of service I think. There are enough good options around to use. We use a Dutch notary to escrow deposits, whom is specially trained by us in how to check if a transfer is actually processed by the NCC. Their cost is a really small charge on the total sum. Around € 500 euro per transfer / agreement. There are also other options, especially in the US there are lots op escrow options I've seen. And most banks would typically also offer that as a service, but it is typically more expensive. One of the reasons why you don't want the NCC in that process of payment, is because the NCC should be an impartial party on the execution of the process and their work should not be also deciding if the contract terms have been met or not .. If they are also holding funds, they are becoming a party in the process. As the party doing the escrow is actually offering a service and making a decision if all the terms are met for payment or not. I fully agree with you that you shouldn't do a payment / deposit to a party that is selling the space, before the actual transfer is done and they don't want to do the transfer before they know that the funds are deposited in a secure place. Always, always, always use a notary or escrow service from a law firm or bank with a company / party that both parties trust. Typically a broker can provide a good suggestion on who to use for those kind of services. Not to forget, ask for references. If you are dealing with a party that does this for a living, don't take their word for it. Ask if they can provide references for transactions they have done. Either buying parties or selling parties. And ask them how their experience was with the escrow and the process. As a Dutch (broker) company, we deal with contracts under Dutch law. Why ? The RIPE NCC is based in the Netherlands, the notary is Dutch, we are Dutch. So it makes mediation under Dutch law easier. And we have been doing this for companies from all around the region. Feel free to ask me (may also be off list) on any of the processes that we use, if you are looking for more details in this field. Regards, Erik Bais
Op 17 dec. 2015 om 17:55 heeft Max Tulyev <president@ukraine.su> het volgende geschreven:
Hello All!
I would like to ask (and may be start a policy proposal) either RIPE NCC has or plan to implement the escrow service for members?
People from a lot of countries and companies buy and sell IPv4 address space now. As the price of that resource is high, cost of that deals raise to millions of Euros. So it is a bit scare and even danger to send some millions to some unknown company in doubtful place.
Why RIPE NCC? 1. RIPE NCC is exactly that entity who do (or reject to do) the IPv4 transfer. Tha't the main point. RIPE NCC hostmasters using RIPE rules evaluate the request and papers for IP transfer. Most of all escrow companies don't even know what IP address is, and who is wrong or right in potential conflict based on IP transfer. 2. RIPE NCC itself has enough financial resources to garant that type of deals, even if this is several millions of Euros. 3. Unlike any other escrow agencies, RIPE NCC has maximum level of trust at both buying and selling IPv4 parties.
How it can be realised? 1. Both parties agrees use RIPE NCC as escrow. 2. (optional) RIPE NCC pre-evaluate transfer request to find common mistakes or problems, like 24-month ban for transfer of already transferred resources, etc. 3. If all seems good for the first view, Buyer sends money to RIPE NCC. 4. RIPE NCC receives money and informs seller about it, and exact amount of money was received. 5. Buyer and Seller signs transfer contract and RIPE NCC hostmasters start to evaluate a transfer request. 6. If transfer fails for any reason (no signed contract, bad papers, etc), RIPE NCC returns payment to the Buyer. If transfer went good, RIPE NCC releases money to the Seller.
I believe all members trade their IP resources will be happy to have that service! ;)
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015, at 22:35, Erik Bais - A2B Internet wrote:
Hi Max,
The RIPE NCC should not be in the financial process of the transfers, nor should it be part of the financial part of transfers. Second, their current tax status will not allow for this kind of service I think.
Hi, What RIPE NCC could do however, is maintain a list with "known good" (?? even reccomended ??) escrow services, the same way it does with brokers. I'm not saying it's easy to do, but probably asking (response non-mandatory) for name/contact info and feedback regarding the escrow service used (if any) may be a good point. -- Radu-Adrian FEURDEAN fr.ccs
Hi Erik, On 17.12.15 23:35, Erik Bais - A2B Internet wrote:
Hi Max,
The RIPE NCC should not be in the financial process of the transfers, nor should it be part of the financial part of transfers.
Why?
Second, their current tax status will not allow for this kind of service I think.
That's not a profit operation (if no 10% comission is taken, of course ;) ).
On Dec 17, Max Tulyev <president@ukraine.su> wrote: > Why RIPE NCC? > 1. RIPE NCC is exactly that entity who do (or reject to do) the IPv4 > transfer. Tha't the main point. RIPE NCC hostmasters using RIPE rules > evaluate the request and papers for IP transfer. Most of all escrow > companies don't even know what IP address is, and who is wrong or right > in potential conflict based on IP transfer. Can you show that: - there is a demonstrable need for this kind of services, and - the free market has failed to provide them, and - the fees that RIPE NCC would charge for providing this service would make it self-sustainable? -- ciao, Marco
On 21.12.15 09:59, Marco d'Itri wrote:
Can you show that: - there is a demonstrable need for this kind of services, and
That's why I wrote that to the list. To see if there are any demand other than ours. So I expect people who can be interested in that service will write about it to the list :)
On 21.12.15 09:59, Marco d'Itri wrote:
Can you show that: - there is a demonstrable need for this kind of services, and
That's why I wrote that to the list. To see if there are any demand other than ours. So I expect people who can be interested in that service will write about it to the list :)
participants (7)
-
Erik Bais - A2B Internet -
Hank Nussbacher -
Max Tulyev -
Max Tulyev -
md＠Linux.IT -
Niall Donaghy -
Radu-Adrian FEURDEAN