Figuring out RIPE meetings
Dear RIPE NCC services working group, I spoke up during the RIPE NCC services working group during the AOB (any other business) time at the end of the session during the RIPE 87 meeting. We only had a very short amount of time, and I did not warn anyone. More than one person asked me for clarification, so I thought I should send an e-mail to explain. This is that e-mail. There are two places where discussions about the RIPE meeting could happen, either in the RIPE list (with the whole RIPE community) or in the RIPE NCC services working group (for non-member RIPE NCC services). I picked the RIPE NCC services, because I think it is basically about implementation and not about over-arching meeting goals. There is definitely discussion to be had about meeting goals - for example how to deal with a meeting that grows over time - but that is not my focus here. Basically I wanted to rant a bit about two things: 1. The last few meeting locations have not been great. 2. Communication about meetings has been been poor. The most recent meeting, near Rome, was in a location that meant you had to either stay in the meeting venue hotel or take a taxi to get to the meeting every day. It was also far away from the actual city, so getting out to visit a restaurant or even just be away from the venue at all took some time. There are a lot of valid complaints about the way the meeting venue was laid out, but my main concern was the choice of venue itself. The meeting before this, RIPE 86 in Rotterdam, was in a conference center. That is not necessarily bad - RIPE 78 in Rotterdam was in a conference center that was actually pretty good. In the case of RIPE 86 in Rotterdam the conference center was far from anything else, including hotels and restaurants. It could be reached by public transport or by just cycling or walking, so it was better than Rome, but still not great. RIPE 85 in Belgrade was probably a better location as far as venue. The main issues with that meeting were due to it being in Serbia, which has both benefits and drawbacks, but discussion about which countries or regions are appropriate for a RIPE meeting probably belongs on the RIPE list. I realize that there are a lot of reasons why venues were chosen, but I feel like we as the RIPE community have no insight into these. Which leads me to my second point of communication being poor. To me, it feels like we (the RIPE community) are basically just observers in how our own meetings are arranged, and end up having to accept whatever is delivered by our vendor (the RIPE NCC). I do not think this is how anyone wants the RIPE meetings to be arranged, and I definitely do not think that there is any blame here... possibly we have all kind of slowly moved into a situation where the RIPE NCC has done such a good job of handling meetings over the years that we just let them handle everything apart from the actual agendas and discussions. What I was asking for at the microphone at RIPE 87 was for more communication about future meeting planning from the RIPE NCC, and if possible some discussion around it. Arranging conferences or meetings has been especially difficult since the end of the COVID-19 lockdowns, but we (the RIPE community) are in this together along with the RIPE NCC. The RIPE community is willing to help when it makes sense, and can be trusted to be understanding otherwise. Hisham from the RIPE NCC grabbed for a quick chat some time after the RIPE NCC services working group session. He was very open about the challenges that the RIPE NCC are facing planing RIPE meetings, as well as a lot of the thought processes they have around selecting cities, picking venues, and so on. The meetings have not been dropped or ignored, and I know that the RIPE NCC is going to be giving us some interesting articles meeting organization in the near future. I really appreciate him reaching out to me, and look forward to everyone learning about the efforts around meeting planning. Anyway, that's it. No secret agenda or hidden meanings, I promise! 😄 Cheers, -- Shane
Hi Shane, Shane Kerr wrote on 04/12/2023 13:39:
we have all kind of slowly moved into a situation where the RIPE NCC has done such a good job of handling meetings over the years that we just let them handle everything apart from the actual agendas and discussions.
well, sure, but the whole point of the RIPE NCC is that they're secretariat to the RIPE Community. This is what we ask them to do, so that we can concentrate on stuff like the agenda and discussion side of things. The last couple of years have been a real problem for conference management. Apart from the covid disruption and uncertainty about venue availability / lockdowns, there is only limited availability of combined hotel / conference venues which can cater for 600+ registrations. Also hotel pricing has increased by quite a lot over the last couple of years. Hotels and venues typically need to be booked 2y+ in advance to maximize the possibility of getting the location you want, on the dates you want, at the price you want. The more expensive the hotel, the more problems are created for people who have budgetary / funding issues. From the limited discussions I've had with people involved in organising events, it sounds to me like an endless stream of headaches and squaring of circles. I don't envy them their jobs, that's for sure. RIPE87 had a unique set of circumstances which led to it being held in this particular venue, but despite the difficulties, the meeting went well. We were all there, the content was good, the coffee was good, the RIPE dinner was good, and the services provided by the NCC were - as always - excellent.
[...] and I know that the RIPE NCC is going to be giving us some interesting articles meeting organization in the near future.
Sounds good. I look forward to reading them while sitting in my comfy armchair, thanking the stars that other people deal with this side of things :-) Nick
Hi, On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 02:41:42PM +0000, Nick Hilliard (Network Ability Ltd) wrote:
but despite the difficulties, the meeting went well. We were all there, the content was good, the coffee was good, the RIPE dinner was good, and the services provided by the NCC were - as always - excellent.
This! (But still, the hotel was out in the woods, and doing "social evenings in Rome" when it's cold and pitch dark leaves room for improvement :-) ) Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
The most recent meeting, near Rome, was in a location that meant you had to either stay in the meeting venue hotel or take a taxi to get to the meeting every day. It was also far away from the actual city, so getting out to visit a restaurant or even just be away from the venue at all took some time. There are a lot of valid complaints about the way the meeting venue was laid out, but my main concern was the choice of venue itself.
the hotel was quite affordable. meeting in central rome would have cost a fortune. i come for the meetings, not to be a tourist. i do not mind walking a km to get from hotel to a conference center venue. it is probably good for me.
I realize that there are a lot of reasons why venues were chosen, but I feel like we as the RIPE community have no insight into these.
when i delegate, i try to resist micro-managing. i have way too much work to also do the organisers' job. randy
Hi,
the hotel was quite affordable. meeting in central rome would have cost a fortune. i come for the meetings, not to be a tourist. I completely agree with Randy. If I wanted to visit the city, I would always come earlier or stay longer.
By the way, Shane, a bus journey is a good place for a nice chat ;-) Best Stefan Stefan WAHL Consultant E: stefan.wahl@open7.net T: +491734792259 Open7 e.Kfm. Lindenallee 27 14050 Berlin Germany VAT: DE359096348
Am 04.12.2023 um 19:23 schrieb Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>:
The most recent meeting, near Rome, was in a location that meant you had to either stay in the meeting venue hotel or take a taxi to get to the meeting every day. It was also far away from the actual city, so getting out to visit a restaurant or even just be away from the venue at all took some time. There are a lot of valid complaints about the way the meeting venue was laid out, but my main concern was the choice of venue itself.
the hotel was quite affordable. meeting in central rome would have cost a fortune. i come for the meetings, not to be a tourist.
i do not mind walking a km to get from hotel to a conference center venue. it is probably good for me.
I realize that there are a lot of reasons why venues were chosen, but I feel like we as the RIPE community have no insight into these.
when i delegate, i try to resist micro-managing. i have way too much work to also do the organisers' job.
randy
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Hi,
On 4 Dec 2023, at 19:23, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
The most recent meeting, near Rome, was in a location that meant you had to either stay in the meeting venue hotel or take a taxi to get to the meeting every day. It was also far away from the actual city, so getting out to visit a restaurant or even just be away from the venue at all took some time. There are a lot of valid complaints about the way the meeting venue was laid out, but my main concern was the choice of venue itself.
the hotel was quite affordable. meeting in central rome would have cost a fortune. i come for the meetings, not to be a tourist.
i do not mind walking a km to get from hotel to a conference center venue. it is probably good for me.
I realize that there are a lot of reasons why venues were chosen, but I feel like we as the RIPE community have no insight into these.
when i delegate, i try to resist micro-managing. i have way too much work to also do the organisers' job.
I totally agree, however (there is always a “but” isn't there :) I’m sure the organisers at the RIPE NCC do appreciate our feedback. Let’s give them calm, honest, fair feedback on the things we did like a lot, and the things we would like done differently in the future where possible. Especially let them know about the bits we like and appreciate! Listening to a stream of complaints can make anybody feel insecure, so don’t forget about the good things and give credit where due. Cheers, Sander
shane, oh, and a major point which concerns me, though i guess not others, is covid protocols. 87 was rather scary to me, and the results coming in are not pretty. i tried to stay masked from leaving home to returning, except when eating or speaking. it was not onerous. randy, still testing negative
On 4 Dec 2023, at 13:39, Shane Kerr <shane@time-travellers.org> wrote:
The RIPE community is willing to help when it makes sense, and can be trusted to be understanding otherwise.
Shane, I think you’re wrong and unreasonable on this issue. For starters, as far as I’m aware the RIPE community - for some definition of that term - has not taken a consensus decision to be willing to be involved on this matter. Where/when/how did that take place? Second, it’s highly unlikely input from the RIPE community could be helpful in choosing meeting venues. The community is so diverse, it’ll be pulling in too many conflicting and possibly mutually exclusive directions at the same time. Expecting the RIPE community to converge on a broadly agreed venue is as realistic as us agreeing on the best flavour of beer/coffee/fruit juice/whatever. Finally, I doubt the RIPE community has enough of an understanding of all the factors that go into choosing a location and venue. How many of us are professional meeting planners or know what’s available and at what price for an upcoming RIPE meeting? IMO it’s best to leave these decisions to the great team at the NCC who know this stuff and have the expertise at negotiating with hotels or conference centres. The RIPE community can offer constructive feedback on those choices, just as they’ve always done. There’s no need or reason for the RIPE community to micro-manage this stuff. Please leave it to the experts.
participants (7)
-
Gert Doering -
Jim Reid -
Nick Hilliard (Network Ability Ltd) -
Randy Bush -
Sander Steffann -
Shane Kerr -
Stefan Wahl