Considering the strong interests who are trying to screw over as many people as they can get away with, and considering to what extent they have already been able to pervert ICANN, I can certainly not see the sense in ripping into RIPE to make sure that we have no organization which will stand up for european interests when the pirates of DNS comes for our blood next time. But considering that this entire thread started out with yet another failure (almost a yearly recurrent thing these days) by the RIPE community to find a way where customers can be offered multi-homing in practical and efficient way, is almost a good argument for the steam-rolling to proceed with no undue delay. While there may not be any perfect solution to multihoming, LIR training or even the general level of RIPE activities, there are actual workable solutions, and I think there are plenty of places where progress could be easily made. Provided of course, that people really want progress, something which is increasingly in doubt judging from these lists. It is no wonder governments are starting to get involved in internet regulation if the RIPE community is supposed to be "best practice" example for self government :-( I think it is about time that people pull their heads out of their behind and get to work on the actual problems, or at least shut up and get out of the way so other people can do so. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.