- ncc-services-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Re: [ncc-services-wg] Feature request
by Max Tulyev 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

> I think I misunderstood what you wanted when we spoke last week. I > thought you were looking for some kind of added granularity to the > maintainer system. However, reading your request again it looks more > like you want to be able to use the RIPE Database to enforce a > contract between you and your customers. Is that correct? Correct, but not exactly RIPE DB. Just have an ability (for example, through letter to Hostmaster) to have general control on the objects I registered. > Can I ask why you'd want to use the RIPE Database to do this rather > than use an alternative, like a debt collection agency, or an order > from a civil court? That's because it is not working fine here... -- WBR, Max Tulyev (MT6561-RIPE, 2:463/253@FIDO)

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Feature request
by Max Tulyev 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

Hi! As I register a lot of PI/AS, there is a bit problem I often face to. My clients wants to have control on their objects I registered for them (i.e. have their mnt-by). But there is an agreement between us, and sometimes (due to payment problems, violating the agreement, spam, etc.) I need to suspend or even remove objects. Having my mntner inside users' objects is often not acceptable because of users wants to change objects by themself (and do that quickly and transparently). Also there is administrative reason ("Why we can't change our objects, why there is alien mntner?"). How I can shut down objects I registered as LIR, but don't maintain? Is there some special feature? Thank you. -- WBR, Max Tulyev (MT6561-RIPE, 2:463/253@FIDO)

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RIPE51 - NCC Services WG - Agenda Items
by Bijal Sanghani 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

Dear Colleagues, We are currently working on the draft agenda for the RIPE NCC Services Working Group for RIPE 51. If anyone would like to make a presentation or raise a topic for discussion please contact either Kurtis or myself and we'll arrange a slot on the agenda. Thanks, -bijal

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Re: [ncc-services-wg] Feature request
by Max Tulyev 18 Sep '05

18 Sep '05

> Well, you are not supposed to sell/rent addresses, with the exception of > covering the administrative overhead. Which should be close to NIL if you > do not want to take care of that block (LIR-wise). So a simple approach > would be to hand out the addresses only after a reasonable once-off fee for > obtaining them has been paid. Heh... /22 PI is scored like 4 (FOUR) PA /20 block usually got by LIR at the beginning (but, of course, once). So I don't think it is "close to NIL". Often it is too expensive, especially in eastern Europe, especially to non-profit organization. So it is good to split payment for a chunks, not bill them once. Anyway, is there the deny to bill PI/AS on regular basis (not once)? Where? > Which agreements? As long as you provide connectivity to them, this is an > ISP operational issue. If they don't pay for those services they get > locked/cut. Then the holder of PI is free (by definition) to find another > provider. end story. If I am their service provider (btw, then they got PA) - I can cut their service. And if not? > Boring, yes, but I thought you want to see an on-going flow of money ;-) > What for? Where's the user friendlyness? So RIPE gives me a policy how to deal with my clients? ;) If yes, please show me the documents. If not - let me do that, and be LIR-friendly ;) > There should be a local legal envirnment available to enforce (resonable) > contracts. Yes. But, unfortunally, contracts sometimes violates, so I ask about technical resources to have users to be correct. -- WBR, Max Tulyev (MT6561-RIPE, 2:463/253@FIDO)

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Feature request
by Max Tulyev 16 Sep '05

16 Sep '05

> > But there is an agreement between us, and sometimes (due to payment > > problems, violating the agreement, spam, etc.) I need to suspend or even > > remove objects. > ...which means that you want to/have to keep responsibility to maintain the > data in the repository, right? Not right. User is keeping responsibility to maintain the data, so their mnt-by is in the objects. My aim is (at least) to bill user, and it can be done different ways (once, yearly, quarterly, by crediting user for sometime, whatever). And I need the mechanism to let that user have to pay ;) (and not to violate agreements by other ways) and remove objects if it doesn't - but NOT to keep information up to date in RIPE DB. > I don't understand this assertion, as long as there is a contractual > relationship with your LIR, there is no "alien maintainer". Please keep in > mind that an LIR is NOT required to provide PI assignment services. So if > those "customers" don't like your set of rules, they are free to find > another LIR which offers what they want. Ok, but if I want to be more user friendly than others? Or if I bored with making updates of my users' objects? > What you definitely _can_ do is add an _additional_ maintainer for your > user. Then having any credential as listed in _any_ of the maintainers > allows access. Evaluation of the auth: tags is done according to a LOGICAL > OR policy. From the beginning I said about "bad guys". If user really one - he just sends an update to remove my mntner - and I loose control on object completly. > Not to my knowledge. I think I suggested that before - in case you deploy > the multiple maintainer approch, you probably should enable the > notification mechanism(s) [in your maintainer] to each time get an alert > when your customer happens to change registration data. But notification comes a bit later, isn't it? ;) > And you may want to include an explicit provision in your contract that > prevents your customer from removing the link to _your_ maintainer object. If all users always do what is written in the contract - there was no deal about all of that at all. -- WBR, Max Tulyev (MT6561-RIPE, 2:463/253@FIDO)

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RIPE NCC Member Update - Issue 8
by Paul Rendek 08 Sep '05

08 Sep '05

Dear Colleagues, The RIPE NCC is pleased to announce the release of the latest edition of the RIPE NCC Member Update. You can find the latest edition of the Member Update at: http://www.ripe.net/membership/newsletter/2005/newsletter8.pdf This edition of the Member Update includes sections on: - A guest article on the report from the Working Group on Internet Governance (WGIG) - The RIPE NCC Membership Survey 2005 - Changes to RIPE NCC Online Payments - New instances of the RIPE NCC operated K-root server - Previous and upcoming RIPE Meetings - RIPE NCC Training Courses and conference calendar If you have any questions, suggestions or comments about the RIPE NCC Member Update, please contact us by e-mail at: <feedback(a)ripe.net> Regards, Paul Rendek Head of Member Services & Communications RIPE NCC

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Final Reminder: RIPE NCC Regional Meeting, Moscow, 15 - 16 September 2005
by Membership Liaison Officer 01 Sep '05

01 Sep '05

[Apologies for duplicate e-mails] Dear Colleagues, This is a final reminder that registration will soon close for the second RIPE NCC Regional Meeting in Moscow. The meeting will be held 15 - 16 September 2005 at the Moscow Marriott Grand Hotel in Moscow, Russia. The deadline for registering is Friday, 9 September 2005. Attendance to the RIPE NCC Regional Meeting is open and free of charge. However, attendees are responsible for covering their own travel and accommodation costs. MEETING VENUE Marriott Grand Hotel 26/1 Tverskaya Street Moscow, 125009 Russian Federation Phone: +7 095 9370000 Fax: +7 095 9370001 More information about the meeting venue can be found at: http://www.ripe.net/meetings/regional/moscow-2005/meeting-venue.html REGISTRATION Registration for the RIPE NCC Regional Meeting is now open. Registration will close on Friday, 9 September 2005. To register, please see: https://lirportal.ripe.net/lirportal/meeting/registration/meeting.html?id=6 AGENDA The agenda for the RIPE NCC Regional Meeting is available at: http://www.ripe.net/meetings/regional/moscow-2005/agenda.html We have reserved space in the agenda for presentations from the local community on current issues affecting the region. If there is a particular presentation or topic you would like included in the agenda, please send your suggestion to: <contact(a)ripe.net> TRAINING SEMINARS The RIPE NCC Regional Meeting will feature training seminars on IP request procedures, DNSSEC and the Routing Registry. More information about these training seminars is available at: http://www.ripe.net/meetings/regional/moscow-2005/agenda.html APPOINTMENTS AVAILABLE WITH RIPE NCC IP RESOURCE ANALYSTS RIPE NCC IP Resource Analysts will be available for consultation during the RIPE NCC Regional Meeting. For more information, and to make an appointment, please see: http://www.ripe.net/meetings/regional/moscow-2005/ip-resource-analysts.html VISA INFORMATION If you will need a visa to attend this meeting, please read the information available at: http://www.ripe.net/meetings/regional/moscow-2005/visa.html MORE INFORMATION More information about the RIPE NCC Regional Meeting in Moscow is available from: http://www.ripe.net/meetings/regional/moscow-2005/index.html If you have any further questions, please send an e-mail to: <contact(a)ripe.net> Regards, Nathalie Dougall Membership Liaison Officer RIPE NCC www.ripe.net

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RIPE Policy Development Process
by Paul Rendek 01 Sep '05

01 Sep '05

Dear Colleagues We are pleased to announce that Rob Blokzijl, RIPE Chair, has published a new RIPE Document, "Policy Development Process in RIPE", (ripe-350). This document formally describes the policy development process. The updated process is operational from today, 1 September 2005. A new RIPE web page describes all the active policy proposals and their status. Each proposal has a page showing its history, status and all supporting documentation. This page can be found at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/index.html A new mailing list <policy-announce(a)ripe.net> has been created for announcing policy proposals and tracking them through the policy development process. This is not a discussion list; discussions will continue to take place on relevant RIPE Working Group lists and at RIPE Meetings. You can subscribe to the policy-announce list at: http://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/policy-announce List archives are available at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/maillists/archives/policy-announce/ Kind regards Paul Rendek Head of Member Services and Communications RIPE NCC

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Complaints about becoming a new LIR
by Hank Nussbacher 25 Aug '05

25 Aug '05

Have any of you recently tried to become a new LIR?! I am helping an organization become a LIR and they pointed out many items that I think the RIPE NCC needs to take account of. Here is what they are doing: 1) User goes to www.ripe.net 2) User clicks on 'membership' in left panel 3) User now goes to http://www.ripe.net/membership/ 4) User now clicks on 'become a member' 5) User now on http://www.ripe.net/membership/new-members/index.html 6) User now clicks on "Updated Procedure for Becoming a New RIPE NCC LIR [08 June 2004]" 7) User now on http://www.ripe.net/membership/new-members/new-form-20040608.html 8) User now clicks on "More information on the new LIR procedure can be found here." 9) User now redirected to https://lirportal.ripe.net/newmember/index.html 10) User clicks 'I agree' at bottom 11) User now starts online application at: https://lirportal.ripe.net/newmember/MemberApplication.html 12) User now supplies name and email and clicks next 13) User now is asked for lots of legal info and clicks next 14) user is now asked for lots of billing info and clicks next 15) User is now asked for registry data and clicks next 16) User is now asked for mailing list subscriptions and clicks next 17) User is asked to provide remarks and clicks next 18) User now can submit the form Now imagine a network admin is asked by his/her company to become a LIR. He/she has never worked with RIPE. They follow the process and get to step 13. They stop what they are doing and contact their bosses and lawyers about filling in the legal info. They accumulate the answers after a few phone calls and emails and now move inward to step 14. Now they call the accounting dept and get the necessary info to complete this screen. Hit next. Now they call the head of the IT dept and ask who should be added as a contact person. Hit next. Whoops. Now I need to know who from the IT dept should be getting local-ir and ncc-co emails. Call back IT dept head. Confused yet? RIPE-303 which is now obsolete, but was the last available 'Procedure for becoming a LIR', states in section 2 that one has to sign an official contract with RIPE: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/service-agreement.html (ripe-320). RIPE-320 is *not* obsolete, so I guess one does have to, but the new Lirportal procedure makes no reference to it at all (steps 1-18). Since ripe-303 is obsolete, a new user would normally not read it and therefore would not know about ripe-320. IMHO, the entire new LIR procedure has been made very cumbersome and non-intuitive and has not been reviewed for user friendliness. Previously, with ripe-230, one had all the info needed in one spot and could see very clearly what info and data from within the company is needed to become a LIR. Nowadays, it is a 3 day job just to figure out what the LIR portal will be asking along the way. I think that the RIPE NCC has to revise this entire procedure from the ground up. Regards, Hank Nussbacher

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ccTLD Mailing List
by Brett Carr 19 Aug '05

19 Aug '05

The RIPE NCC have setup a new mailing list aimed at ccTLD operators. The aim of the list is to: 1. Enable ccTLD operators to discuss DNS and other operational Internet issues. 2. Enable the RIPE NCC to communicate with many ccTLD operators in a single forum (For issues related to secondary DNS etc) If you are a ccTLD operator please feel free to sign up to the list here: http://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/cctld Regards -- Brett Carr Ripe Network Coordination Centre Systems Engineer -- Operations Group Singel 258 Amsterdam NL GPG Key fingerprint = F20D B2A7 C91D E370 44CF F244 B6A1 EF48 E743 F7D8

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