- ncc-services-wg - mailman.ripe.net

(no subject)
by Yuri Demenin 16 Dec '22

16 Dec '22

Can you please explain why my blocks are blocked for the transfer? What should I give more? I need to transfer resources before the end of this year and this is vital for me !! I represent myself, not Tuliev or anyone else. I think we all have the right to dispose our resources by own choice, according RIPE policy of course. But now I feel like a prisoner. RIPE NCC doesn't give any explanation. Once again. I need to transfer resources till the end of the year.

2 1

Measures to Protect Ukrainian Networks
by Hans Petter Holen 14 Dec '22

14 Dec '22

Dear colleagues, At last week’s RIPE 85 meeting in Belgrade, the RIPE community discussed ways to further protect the resources of Ukrainian networks. I want to provide a brief summary of what we heard at RIPE 85 and outline what we will be doing next. At the meeting, there seemed to be general support for the following points: - Apply a temporary freeze on all transfers from Ukrainian networks until a better solution can be found - Implement a way for members concerned that they are at risk to lock their resources and prevent them from being transferred for a set period of time - The RIPE NCC should be able to act on urgent matters without going through the policy development process, especially as policy changes will take several months to complete the RIPE PDP even if there is unanimous support - Ukrainian operators do not want government to take a more active role in terms of approving registry updates - The RIPE NCC should move on this matter with urgency However, we do note that there have been further comments on the mailing lists arguing against a blanket freeze on transfers. As an immediate response, all transfer requests from Ukrainian networks will be escalated to me until further notice. We will of course continue to apply the highest levels of due diligence when reviewing these requests. This will add some amount of delay, which I think is entirely appropriate under the circumstances and given the seriousness of the concerns that have been raised. This should be seen as a temporary measure which has the advantage of being something we can apply straight away. RIPE NCC staff are currently investigating additional short-term measures and we will update you on our next steps after these have been discussed with the Executive Board. We will continue to follow all discussions that take place on the mailing lists in the meantime. Kind regards Hans Petter Holen Managing Director RIPE NCC

8 11

Re: [ncc-services-wg] Measures to Protect Ukrainian Networks
by Yuri Varenitsa 13 Dec '22

13 Dec '22

Dear all We have sent almost dozen of tickets starting the November. Neither one is closed. What should I say to the clients? How long will it take now to get the answer to the tickets? Can you give please approximate date of feedback? There is no such attitude even towards Iran and ru. All agreements and contracts were hung up thanks to the "wonderful" actions of Fedienko and co, which are even NOT a LIR at all. "They helped so much." What will we do next? -- Kind regards, Yuri Varenytsa On 08.12.2022 12:59, Kseniya Sokol wrote: > > > > -------- Перенаправленное сообщение -------- > Тема: Re: [ncc-services-wg] Measures to Protect Ukrainian Networks > Дата: Tue, 6 Dec 2022 16:08:50 +0200 > От: Max Tulyev <president(a)ukraine.su> > Кому: ncc-services-wg(a)ripe.net > > Indeed. > > There are a lot of countries never had open online company register. And > transfers works with them well. > > 06.12.22 13:21, Olha Sira пише: >> Dear Olena, >> >> I am speaking about controlled territories and entities that >> registered on the controlled territories. You are aware that borders >> of the occupied territories change slightly near the front line, but a >> big part of the country isn't affected by direct contact with >> Russians. I am sorry, but it looks like you are trying to misrepresent >> information about the general situation in Ukraine and get an >> advantage from that situation in our country. You mention horror and >> violence in uncontrolled territories, which is an obvious fact. But >> you are using this fact to convince RIPE NCC to keep blocking the >> transfers for the rest of Ukraine, which isn't occupied. >> >> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 6:50 PM Олена Кушнір <kea(a)webpro.net.ua >> <mailto:kea@webpro.net.ua>> wrote: >> >> Good afternoon, Dear Colleagues and Olga >> >> I don't agree with you about " But there isn't direct contact with >> Russians, who might force IP >> holders to make unlawful transfers." >> Contact can be with people in the occupied territories through an >> email address. There are quite a few arguments for physical impact >> on people, because horrors and violence occur in uncontrolled >> territories. >> Also, the borders of occupied and unoccupied territories change >> every day. >> I must also remind you _that open company registries are not >> available_ during wartime. That is why it is technically impossible >> to check the legitimacy of the signatory when making transactions. >> >> Yes, the open _company registries are not available _at the moment. >> But the solution has been introduced. I wouldn't be so categoretic >> that a legitimacy of the signatory is impossible to check. >> >> >> Thanks to the RIPE NCC team for their work. >> And we support temporary blocking of IP- transfers during the war. >> >> >> _______________ >> Best regards, >> Olena Kushnir >> >> www.webpro.ua <http://www.webpro.ua> >> >> >>> 5 груд. 2022 р. о 12:24 Olha Sira <vasylevych(a)gmail.com >>> <mailto:vasylevych@gmail.com>> написав(ла): >>> >>> Dear Hans Petter Holen and Colleagues, >>> >>> It was an extremely good and balanced decision to continue IP >>> address >>> transfers for companies based on Ukrainian Government-controlled >>> territories. >>> But it looks like a hidden ban exists. There haven't been any >>> accomplished transfers for Ukrainian IP holders since the RIPE 85 >>> meeting. >>> It leads to problems with the fulfillment of obligations to >>> counterparties and creates barriers in operating activities. >>> >>> Please note, that for Ukrainian Government-controlled territory the >>> danger and difficulties are rockets and drone attacks and >>> electricity >>> outages, which cause absence of water and heating. >>> But there isn't direct contact with Russians, who might force IP >>> holders to make unlawful transfers. As was written in the previous >>> discussion, blocking transfers for the Ukrainian >>> Government-controlled >>> territory does more harm than good. >>> >>> Your comprehension are greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> Olha Sira >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 3:26 PM Hans Petter Holen >>> <hph+announce(a)ripe.net <mailto:hph+announce@ripe.net>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear colleagues, >>>> >>>> At last week’s RIPE 85 meeting in Belgrade, the RIPE community >>>> discussed ways to further protect the resources of Ukrainian >>>> networks. I want to provide a brief summary of what we heard at >>>> RIPE 85 and outline what we will be doing next. >>>> >>>> At the meeting, there seemed to be general support for the >>>> following points: >>>> >>>> - Apply a temporary freeze on all transfers from Ukrainian >>>> networks until a better solution can be found >>>> - Implement a way for members concerned that they are at risk to >>>> lock their resources and prevent them from being transferred for >>>> a set period of time >>>> - The RIPE NCC should be able to act on urgent matters without >>>> going through the policy development process, especially as >>>> policy changes will take several months to complete the RIPE PDP >>>> even if there is unanimous support >>>> - Ukrainian operators do not want government to take a more >>>> active role in terms of approving registry updates >>>> - The RIPE NCC should move on this matter with urgency >>>> >>>> However, we do note that there have been further comments on the >>>> mailing lists arguing against a blanket freeze on transfers. >>>> >>>> As an immediate response, all transfer requests from Ukrainian >>>> networks will be escalated to me until further notice. We will of >>>> course continue to apply the highest levels of due diligence when >>>> reviewing these requests. This will add some amount of delay, >>>> which I think is entirely appropriate under the circumstances and >>>> given the seriousness of the concerns that have been raised. >>>> >>>> This should be seen as a temporary measure which has the >>>> advantage of being something we can apply straight away. RIPE NCC >>>> staff are currently investigating additional short-term measures >>>> and we will update you on our next steps after these have been >>>> discussed with the Executive Board. >>>> >>>> We will continue to follow all discussions that take place on the >>>> mailing lists in the meantime. >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> >>>> Hans Petter Holen >>>> Managing Director >>>> RIPE NCC >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, >>>> or change your subscription options, please visit: >>>> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ncc-services-wg >>>> <https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ncc-services-wg> >>> >>> -- >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or >>> change your subscription options, please visit: >>> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ncc-services-wg >>> <https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ncc-services-wg> >> >> >

4 4

Ukrainian transfers
by Max Tulyev 13 Dec '22

13 Dec '22

Hi All, I'm writing about Ukrainian IP transfers again. During the last RIPE meeting we have figured out there is NO consensus about freezing all transfers of Ukrainian resources. But in fact this freeze was implemented by RIPE NCC staff. There was no transfers since that time, and hostmasters tells "we are still waiting for decision of RIPE NCC management in regards to the Ukrainian transfers". This means Ukrainian companies depending on that transfers can not fulfill their obligations to contractors because of RIPE NCC. This also means they will have to pay fines to contractors as well. Also I'm afraid if transfers will not be executed until the end of December, some companies wishes to close their LIRs after the transfer will be pushed to pay a next year payment to NCC. And all of that is for our members are in financial distress because of the war. It means the current RIPE NCC staff do not rely anymore on community, as the ban was implemented in the situation of no community consensus, but under the pressure of doubtful government representatives. So, do we really want to have that RIPE(NCC)?

4 3

Re: [ncc-services-wg] Ukrainian transfers
by Max Tulyev 13 Dec '22

13 Dec '22

Nice. What about Donetsk and Kherson, which are "officially russian" same way? 13.12.22 16:34, ksyu(a)netassist.ua пише: > > ... that RIPE(NCC) that added COUNTRY RU > to the companies which are located in Crimea > > And do not make any ua transfers. > > This is not the position "that you are out politics" > > Regards, Kseniia > > -------- Оригінальне повідомлення -------- > Від: Max Tulyev <president(a)ukraine.su> > Дата: 13.12.22 14:32 (GMT+01:00) > Кому: ncc-services-wg(a)ripe.net > Тема: [ncc-services-wg] Ukrainian transfers > > Hi All, > > I'm writing about Ukrainian IP transfers again. > > During the last RIPE meeting we have figured out there is NO consensus > about freezing all transfers of Ukrainian resources. But in fact this > freeze was implemented by RIPE NCC staff. There was no transfers since > that time, and hostmasters tells "we are still waiting for decision of > RIPE NCC management in regards to the Ukrainian transfers". > > This means Ukrainian companies depending on that transfers can not > fulfill their obligations to contractors because of RIPE NCC. This also > means they will have to pay fines to contractors as well. > > Also I'm afraid if transfers will not be executed until the end of > December, some companies wishes to close their LIRs after the transfer > will be pushed to pay a next year payment to NCC. > > And all of that is for our members are in financial distress because of > the war. > > It means the current RIPE NCC staff do not rely anymore on community, as > the ban was implemented in the situation of no community consensus, but > under the pressure of doubtful government representatives. > > So, do we really want to have that RIPE(NCC)? > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or > change your subscription options, please visit: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ncc-services-wg >

1 0

Re: [ncc-services-wg] Measures to Protect Ukrainian Networks
by Viktoriia Opanasiuk 03 Nov '22

03 Nov '22

Dear Hans Petter Holen, Thank you for your decision and proposal and for paying so much attention to the issues of Ukraine. It is really very important for our community. We realize that everyone has the right to their own position. We will continue to work and participate in working groups to reach the best solution and I really hope that after these temporary measures the discussion will become more constructive. With best regards, Viktoriia Opanasiuk

2 1

Re: [ncc-services-wg] UA IP transfers situation
by Максим Смелянец 02 Nov '22

02 Nov '22

Hi everyone, Persanly having hope that "Mafia home", as Maxim Tuliev called, is not the biggest two Telecom Community Chats in the country as Telecom Ukraine and Ukoz ... ), where Ondřej Filip Executive Board Member can watch all market meanings under this question himself. We have already discussed it there and everyone saw that is no real ground of Max's suggestion in any threat to his adress. At the same time Ukraian community is united under suggestion to provide frize period for the hall Ukrainian terrytory till new rules for transactions will be implemeted. We need some time to provide these new rules in Ripe NCC and everyone understand that. Suggestions for these new rules that brought up is likely suited for most of Ripe members, Ukrainian accossiations and market players in Ukraine. Best regards and with prey that Ripe will hear Ukrainian community and not few members that even not living in Ukraine right now and transfered main part of their LIR outside of Ukraine. Maxim Smelianets Co-founder Telecom Ukraine Community

3 2

A friendly reminder!
by Rob Evans 02 Nov '22

02 Nov '22

Dear colleagues, We understand that the invasion of Ukraine has put a lot of pressure on Ukrainian network operators. There are likely to be differences of opinion on how to handle any potential proposal to restrict, or not, the sale or transfer of resources, and all WG members are free to put their case forward for either side of the argument. However, this is a friendly reminder to keep the discussion open and civil, respecting others' viewpoints. Please also keep the discussion to the topics within the charter of this working group. Many thanks, Rob, Kurtis, Bijal NCC Services WG Co-chairs

2 2

wrote a generalized response to the "proposals" of Oleksandr Askochenska, Olga Syroya, Oleksandr Buzaev, Ksenia Sokol, horobrifeniksptah, Pavlo B.D. regarding the issue of banning the transfer of IP addresses of Ukraine.
by FAP_IMC 02 Nov '22

02 Nov '22

For the first time, I want to thank the "army" of Mr. Tulyev, who so actively joined in supporting Maxim's position regarding LIR and IP address transfers. Given that my job as a parliamentarian is primarily to work with citizens, I have of course studied your suggestions. Unfortunately, none of you dears have provided any suggestions, and I do not know how to work with emotions. Separately, I want to draw your attention to the fact that everything you write is not true, that is, you are lying. Why so, they ask me? Everything is very simple, it is written by employees of the company owned by Mr. Tuliev, I understand that times are difficult, everyone needs to earn money. But I ask you, dear employees, Mr. Maksym, to pay attention to the letter from the Internet Association of Ukraine. https://inau.ua/sites/default/files/file/2210/ref.-no-94-dd-26-october-2022… This letter was supported by 9 out of 12 members of the board of the Internet Association of Ukraine, Maksym voted against it, he has the right. I would like to remind you that the Internet Association of Ukraine is the largest industry association. I cannot go against the decisions of sufficiently powerful public non-governmental organizations, so I also support their proposals. That is, when you mention me, you must first address the public. The second public organization APPK also took the initiative, as did the Internet Association of Ukraine https://www.appk.org.ua/ru/news/show/predstavnitsya-appk-v%D1%96ktor%D1%96y… APPK writes, therefore, with the provision of preserving our resource, with the provision of security for our colleagues from unnecessary threats, a decision is now proposed to freeze all transfers from Ukraine, while all possible regulatory mechanisms and the impossibility of risky transfers are being discussed. What do you suggest, dear #Askochenskaya Alexandra, #Olha Sira, #Alexander Buzaev, #Kseniya Sokol, #bravephoenixbird, #Paul BD.? Try, as concerned citizens, to understand the issue and convince the public. Separately, I would like to draw attention to a strange site https://www.urdn.com.ua/ and Pavlo B.D., which looks like a fraudulent Internet resource that does not comply with three normative legal acts of Ukraine and two Laws of Ukraine. So, my proposal regarding the meeting is correct, in Kyiv you can choose the place yourself, I will meet you with great respect. I want to recall the proposals of two public associations of Ukraine, which I support. Until RIPE NCC develops safe rules for the transfer of IP addresses, freeze any transfers IP adress throughout the territory of Ukraine. PS when the obscure bot Paul BD writes about patriotism, I want to meet this bot/human with double power, I'm sure we can exchange exactly the military experience of defending our territory since the Russian invasion, starting in 2014. Perhaps I will learn something new, or you will tell about the experience, always useful, and we will immediately decide on a business trip with things to Russia.

5 5

Dear Olga Syra and Paul BD, thank you for your correspondence and position, but I would like to start a discussion not about personalities, but about proposals, the transfer of IP addresses from Ukraine.
by Федієнко Олександр Павлович 02 Nov '22

02 Nov '22

Thank you, Ms. Olga, for your answer. If you read my answer, please note that I wrote absolutely nothing about actions. My proposal was precisely in the direction that RIPE NCC should develop the policies itself, and until such time as it does not have them, block transfers of IP addresses from the territory of Ukraine. There were letters from the public that expressed a slightly different position, which I wrote about. https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-services-wg/2022-November/00365… I also believe that the current transfer procedure is imperfect and carries risks with regard to Ukraine's information security. That is why we really need to discuss this issue. Paul BD, thanks for your replies, but any suggestions? I don't have the resources, but I believe that there are risks in transferring IP addresses, especially in occupied territories. So, yes, new policies need to be developed to protect those LIRs that are delegated the use of IP addresses. I also see risks regarding state information resources that are based on and use IP addresses that, for example, belong to IP addresses that are not under the jurisdiction of Ukraine. I am confident that the RIPE NCC working group should look into these issues and make recommendations Paul BD, tell me who exactly I called and threatened? :) If we are talking about the text of Mr. Tulev, then he is fooling the society, and instead of being constructive, he continues to accuse that someone is threatening him. Maxim fled the country, so nobody is interested in his active life. Considering you are unconstructive, thanks for the chat, and goodbye. I don't know who your lawyer is, but he is right, give him congratulations.

3 2