June 2005 - ncc-services-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Complaints about becoming a new LIR
by Hank Nussbacher 25 Aug '05

25 Aug '05

Have any of you recently tried to become a new LIR?! I am helping an organization become a LIR and they pointed out many items that I think the RIPE NCC needs to take account of. Here is what they are doing: 1) User goes to www.ripe.net 2) User clicks on 'membership' in left panel 3) User now goes to http://www.ripe.net/membership/ 4) User now clicks on 'become a member' 5) User now on http://www.ripe.net/membership/new-members/index.html 6) User now clicks on "Updated Procedure for Becoming a New RIPE NCC LIR [08 June 2004]" 7) User now on http://www.ripe.net/membership/new-members/new-form-20040608.html 8) User now clicks on "More information on the new LIR procedure can be found here." 9) User now redirected to https://lirportal.ripe.net/newmember/index.html 10) User clicks 'I agree' at bottom 11) User now starts online application at: https://lirportal.ripe.net/newmember/MemberApplication.html 12) User now supplies name and email and clicks next 13) User now is asked for lots of legal info and clicks next 14) user is now asked for lots of billing info and clicks next 15) User is now asked for registry data and clicks next 16) User is now asked for mailing list subscriptions and clicks next 17) User is asked to provide remarks and clicks next 18) User now can submit the form Now imagine a network admin is asked by his/her company to become a LIR. He/she has never worked with RIPE. They follow the process and get to step 13. They stop what they are doing and contact their bosses and lawyers about filling in the legal info. They accumulate the answers after a few phone calls and emails and now move inward to step 14. Now they call the accounting dept and get the necessary info to complete this screen. Hit next. Now they call the head of the IT dept and ask who should be added as a contact person. Hit next. Whoops. Now I need to know who from the IT dept should be getting local-ir and ncc-co emails. Call back IT dept head. Confused yet? RIPE-303 which is now obsolete, but was the last available 'Procedure for becoming a LIR', states in section 2 that one has to sign an official contract with RIPE: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/service-agreement.html (ripe-320). RIPE-320 is *not* obsolete, so I guess one does have to, but the new Lirportal procedure makes no reference to it at all (steps 1-18). Since ripe-303 is obsolete, a new user would normally not read it and therefore would not know about ripe-320. IMHO, the entire new LIR procedure has been made very cumbersome and non-intuitive and has not been reviewed for user friendliness. Previously, with ripe-230, one had all the info needed in one spot and could see very clearly what info and data from within the company is needed to become a LIR. Nowadays, it is a 3 day job just to figure out what the LIR portal will be asking along the way. I think that the RIPE NCC has to revise this entire procedure from the ground up. Regards, Hank Nussbacher

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Re: [ncc-services-wg] RIPE50 - NCC Services WG Draft Minutes
by Pavel Vachek 30 Jun '05

30 Jun '05

Dear Sir, let me second Mr. Hank Nussbacher's proposal. CESNET, the Czech Republic NREN, had been using the RIPE NCC hostcount data since 1997 for the same purpose. Its use is briefly described in the CESNET 1998 Annual report: http://www.cesnet.cz/doc/zprava1998/kap04.html (unfortunately, only the Czech language version seems to be available now). This data has been extremely useful for us as it helped us find organisations trying to misuse the CESNET IP space. Our access to the raw hostcount data stopped in January 2005 as well. Best regards, Pavel Vachek, CESNET NIC, Prague, The Czech Republic. On Mon, 27 Jun 2005, Hank Nussbacher wrote: > As someone who was not at RIPE50 but who uses hostcount, I would like to > add my comments and support. I find this service extremely useful. One > real world use is as follows: the university network in Israel has IP > addresses spanning a range of about 16 /16s. All domain names inside the > universities should terminate with ac.il or at the worst org.il. But > often students take a university Unix system that they have access to and > start using it for non-academic purposes (left as an exercise for the > reader to think of what constitutes non-academic :-)). Using grep on the > raw data file I can easily spot those systems that are running > questionable content based on their domain name (co.il for example). > > Sometimes, hackers change an IP address to some name that has certain > character strings that are unique to the hacker realm. By running a > series of greps on the raw data file I can find those systems that may > have been compromised and contact the appropriate ISP in Israel. > > So please - make hostcount work again. Incidentally, it stopped working > in Jan 2005. > > Regards, > Hank

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Fwd: Final Deadline - 2005 RIPE NCC Membership Survey
by Bijal Sanghani 30 Jun '05

30 Jun '05

Hi All, Just over a week till the deadline for the membership survey, if you haven't already please take a moment to fill out the form. Its our chance to influence the future direction and services of the RIPE NCC. Thanks, -bijal :) > [Apologies for duplicate e-mails] > > Dear Colleagues, > > The deadline for completing the 2005 RIPE NCC Membership Survey is > Friday, 8 July 2005. If you have not sent us your input yet, > please take the time to do this. Your contribution to this survey > is important to us. By filling in the 2005 RIPE NCC Membership > Survey, you can influence the future direction and services of the > RIPE NCC. > > The results of the survey, conducted independently by KPMG, will be > incorporated into the RIPE NCC's long-term strategy. I strongly > urge all members to complete this survey and make sure that your > opinion is heard. > > The survey is available at: > http://www.ripe.net/membership/survey2005 > > Kind regards, > > Axel Pawlik > Managing Director > RIPE NCC > www.ripe.net

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RIPE50 - NCC Services WG Draft Minutes
by Bijal Sanghani 29 Jun '05

29 Jun '05

Dear All, Please see draft minutes from the NCC Services Working Group at RIPE 50. Please send any questions, comments or clarifications to Kurtis, myself or this mailing list. regards, Bijal ---- RIPE NCC Services Working Group Agenda Date: Thursday, 5 May 2005 Time: 16:00 - 17:00 Room: Plenary Room A. Administrative Matters * Welcome * Select a Scribe * Distribute Participants List * Finalise Agenda * Approve Minutes: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/wg/ncc-services/r49- minutes.html B. Report from the RIPE NCC - Axel Pawlik http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-50/presentations/ripe50-serv- ncc-new.pdf Axel noted that the reporting on the RIPE NCC would not be repeated in the General Meeting, scheduled to take place at 17:00. Registration Services Training Engineering New Projects Coordination Communications Membership Relations External Relations There were no questions. C. New LIR Survey - Results and Feedback - Paul Rendek (RIPE NCC) http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-50/presentations/ripe50- services-new-lir.pdf There were no questions. D. A New Version of the Hostcount http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-50/presentations/ripe50-serv- hostcount.pdf RIPE NCC Timur requests feedback on the value of this service. Questions: Kurtis asks how many are using this whois data? Counts...yes, a few people using this data. Anyone has any comments about proposed changes? +/- 49 mins... Lars-Johan Liman (Netnod): Are you going to use this host query all over? Timur: Yes. Lars-Johan Liman - Netnod: Because I noticed some problems with some transfers. So it should be configured to provide one answer instead of many answers.... so this is about the zone transfer format. Timur: Thank you for this. We are going to review all the projects and maybe will modify the hostcount programme itself and maybe we should do a DNS as a backend which may be better. Peter: I want to respond on the remark made by the previous gentleman The host programme is showing its age and the sad fact is that the author has passed away a couple of years ago and the program itself has been orphaned. There are some problems in dealing with the new style referrals. It would be useful to have that located at a well- known place, one of which could be the RIPE NCC. And I would be willing to contribute. As before I didn't do the coding, but it would be useful to develop that not only for the host count, but for DNS debugging as well. Timur: Well, we promised to provide a DIY kit. We will come with a replacement on modified version of software. And your input would be much appreciated. Souissi Mohsen - AFNIC: I browsed through the site and randomly did some cctld's to find out about things. I was pleasantly surprised that there are detail on every cctld. But i am quite worried about the relevance of these figures. For example the zone count. if these figures are to be used somewhere maybe there is a column missing - the estimate of error. is there mathematical way to estimate that. And do a disclaimer for people using these figures? Timur: Well, there is a disclaimer there, Souissi Mohsen - AFNIC: Because the figures are, in some parts, very far from the reality Timur: We understand that, so that's why we are not claiming that it's something really precise. Souissi Mohsen - AFNIC: Thank you anyway. Rob Blokzijl: BTW the first hostcount counted 7200 hosts. But that was never published. Comment: I was one of the few who raised their hand when you asked whether people were using it or whether it is useful. I think its extremely useful because it is one of the few long term efforts to measure something of the internet in a consistent way. It is more of a trans measurement than absolutely numbers. I would like to see some sort of continuation of this and I think its important that potential users understand what it is . What it is that you measure, what the conditions are and yes, its difficult to give error estimates, but people should use it as one of the few reliable trend figures. You can see trends in many publications, but most are based on nothing and if you take any given moment in time, you have a rich choice of various trends, like the internet is not growing anymore or the internet is exploding but at least this measures something that is definied and is not a hostcount as the name suggests, but you are measuring someting in a consistent way for many years, so you can draw some conclustions and I think that is the value. Person from Vienna: I wholly support this project and I am very pleased to see that there is further work being done on this. i would just like to ask if, for the reverse dns counts may lirs volunteer to reform the divulged counts in the same way that some of us volunteerd to perfom forward counts for the country codes? Timnur: That's perfect. We would like to see a participation. Thanks a lot. Bruce Campbell: with what you said about the accuracy - if you see the graph on the screen there is a section that says zones blocked etc. that is the closest that you will get to seeing this is how inaccurate the figures are, because for every zone where we got a block, we have a completely unknown number of hosts that we couldn't count, which is why we started collecting the reverse count because its much easier to ennumerate through the reverse zones and not necessarily forward. the downside is that people generally don't populate the reverse zones. so if you have reverse zones, its putting them in dns is good. its yet another trend. its purely a trend thing with no relation to realiity. Timur: Thank you Peter Kock - denic (one of the starting points into hostzone and long time support and i appreciate the effort and would like to see it continue). I appreciate your new considerations of acceptable use and really, there is no acceptable use. the raw data is no longer shipped, which is probably one of the pre-conditions for the cctld registries to continue support for this project. This is really important and we should talk about that. Timur: Thank you. Out of time, so no open microphone. Y. Open Microphone Z. AOB

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Fwd: [local-ir@ripe.net]Deadline for input to RIPE NCC Membership Survey 2005
by Bijal Sanghani 20 Jun '05

20 Jun '05

fyi - Bijal Sanghani Co-Chair RIPE NCC Services WG Begin forwarded message: > From: Axel Pawlik <contact(a)ripe.net> > Date: 20 June 2005 15:54:14 BDT > To: local-ir(a)ripe.net, ncc-co(a)ripe.net > Subject: [local-ir(a)ripe.net]Deadline for input to RIPE NCC > Membership Survey 2005 > > > [Apologies for duplicate e-mails] > > Dear Colleagues, > > The RIPE NCC needs your input. By filling in the 2005 RIPE NCC > Membership Survey, you can influence the future direction and > services of the RIPE NCC. > > The results of the survey, conducted independently by KPMG, will be > incorporated into the RIPE NCC's long-term strategy. I strongly > urge all members to complete this survey and make sure that your > opinion is heard. > > The 2005 RIPE NCC Membership Survey will be available online until > early July 2005. > > The survey is available at: > http://www.ripe.net/membership/survey2005 > > Kind regards, > > Axel Pawlik > Managing Director > RIPE NCC > >

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Call for Input: 2005 RIPE NCC Membership Survey
by Bijal Sanghani 13 Jun '05

13 Jun '05

Dear Colleagues, We would like to remind you that the 2005 RIPE NCC Membership Survey is online at: http://www.ripe.net/membership/survey2005 RIPE NCC MEMBERSHIP SURVEY: WHY YOU SHOULD PARTICIPATE This survey, conducted by KPMG, plays an important part in the RIPE NCC's efforts in continuing to meet members' needs. The goal of the survey is to give all members the opportunity to voice their opinions and provide input on the RIPE NCC and the services it offers. KPMG have advised us that they have received 37 responses so far. They have noticed that members are also making very good use of the ability in Section 2 to not only identify possible new services but to also clearly weight their preferences for resource investment. The current number of responses is very low given the number of members we have. We hope that many of you will be able to complete the survey and send your responses to KPMG soon. The survey will be available until mid-June 2005. CONFIDENTIALITY KPMG are conducting the 2005 RIPE NCC Membership Survey independently from the RIPE NCC. All responses will go directly to KPMG and will remain anonymous to the RIPE NCC. FORMAT OF THE SURVEY The survey is divided into three sections. - Section 1: About RIPE NCC Services In this section, respondents are asked to rate a series of statements relating to the various services that the RIPE NCC currently offers. - Section 2: Planning for the Future This section is divided into two parts. Respondents are asked to: - rate where they feel the RIPE NCC should allocate its resources in the future. - specify where they consider increased investment by the RIPE NCC would benefit members. - Section 3: Other Suggestions In this section, respondents have the opportunity to make suggestions for services or activities that they feel the RIPE NCC should consider, or stop providing, in the future. COMPLETE THE SURVEY The 2005 RIPE NCC Membership Survey is available at: http://www.ripe.net/membership/survey2005 The survey will remain available online until mid-June 2005. We encourage you to participate in this survey, as your input is greatly valued. Thank you in advance for your contribution. Kind regards, Bijal Sanghani

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Whois Database currently off-line
by Shane Kerr 08 Jun '05

08 Jun '05

Dear Colleagues, The Whois Database is currently not answering queries, or answering them sporadically. We are aware of the outage, and are currently working on restoring service. Apologies for the inconvenience, Shane Kerr Software Engineering Manager RIPE NCC

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RE: [ncc-services-wg] Complaints about becoming a new LIR
by Michael Markstaller 02 Jun '05

02 Jun '05

Now, just to leave my 2 cents.. I've recently applied and all in all I'd say the whole process is really a bit complex which might be caused by the fact becoming a LIR is complex, understanding assignment, allocation, PI, PA, ASN etc. But all in all I did manage to get through and the overall experience of becoming a LIR with RIPE I'd rate very good & professional. But Hanks points & a list of 'needed things' would definitely help.. Michael (former 2:2480/837 - just started googling for current Fido-progs as Frontdoor & Goldedit probably won't do it anymore)

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