December 2003 - ncc-services-wg

Fwd: RIPE 46 - Minutes of Ripe NCC Services WG
by Kurt Erik Lindqvist 21 Jan '04

21 Jan '04

Please send corrections / comments. Best regards, - kurtis - Begin forwarded message: > From: Sabrina Wilmot <sabrina(a)ripe.net> > Date: mån sep 29, 2003 13:06:11 Europe/Stockholm > To: Kurt Erik Lindqvist <kurtis(a)kurtis.pp.se> > Subject: RIPE 46 - Minutes of Ripe NCC Services WG > > Hi Kurtis, > > Please find below the minutes of the Ripe NCC Services WG at RIPE 46. > > Regards, > Sabrina > RIPE NCC > > >> RIPE 46, Amsterdam >> >> Working Group: Ripe NCC Services >> Chair: Kurt Erik Lindqvist >> Scribe: Isabel Pinto Coelho Sena >> >> Agenda: >> >> Slot 1, Tuesday 2/9 14.00-15.30 >> >> 1. NCC Services WG Charter (Kurtis) >> 2. RIPE NCC Services Direction (Axel Pawlik) >> Service level and activities 2004 >> 3. RIPE NCC Information Services >> 4. Discussion & input time / Open Mic session >> >> Slot 2, Thursday 4/9 11.00-12.30 >> >> 5. Presentation on X.509 and certificates (Dirk-Willem van >> Gulik). >> Discussions around the x.509 implementation of the RIPE NCC >> and what other RIRs have done. >> 6. DNS Services - Modification Plans >> 7. Proposals from the community >> 8. Discussion & input time / Open Mic session >> X. AOB >> Z. Close >> ________________________________________________________________ >> >> 1. NCC Services WG Charter >> >> WG Charter presented. No objections were made to it's content. >> >> 2. RIPE NCC Services Direction (Axel Pawlik, Managing Director >> RIPE >> NCC) >> Service level and activities 2004 >> >> See Axel's presentation at >> >> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46- >> nccserv-ncc-services.pdf >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist : Who has read/seen the Member Update? >> [~20 people raised their hands] >> Kurtis Lindqvist : Who here are Members? >> [~60 people raised their hands] >> >> 3. RIPE NCC Information Services >> >> See Axel's previous presentation from slide 27 onwards >> >> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46- >> nccserv-ncc-services.pdf >> >> 4. Discussion & input time / Open Mic session >> >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist : Are there any questions for Axel? >> [No one had questions] >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist : I have one myself: You spoke of the data you have >> that can be used to educate journalists, where do you want to push >> them, just as a general awareness? >> >> Axel Pawlik (MD RIPE NCC): We want them to know that we are working >> well, we want the industry to tell them "do not interfere, they work >> well". As an example: name servers >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist: Any other questions? >> [None were raised] >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist : please register for the GM >> >> Axel Pawlik : there was a heated discussion on the mailing lists? >> None now? >> [None responded] >> >> Rob Blokzijl (RIPE Chairman): I'm surprised that there is no one that >> is willing to discuss the issues off the mailing-list, so I will bring >> up 2 issues that were often discussed. First one is: Whether all these >> services that the RIPE NCC offers are needed? I would like also to >> point that there was no discussion on whether they are _useful_ >> however. Then there was the issue of a flat free financial >> contribution versus a supermarket scenario? Meaning that one could >> pick and choose the services one is willing to pay and have use for. >> >> Wilfried Woeber (Vienna University - ACOnet): I've observed through >> the years another organization where the same discussion was going on >> for years, started out as a flat free and then some started to object >> to this model. In the end, they found the most reasonable solution: >> you buy all or nothing. It is difficult to find out which activities >> are optional and which mandatory. Individual amount, increasing the >> administration overhead that goes along with keeping up with this >> supermarket model, this will not come for free... The complexity that >> we might inject into the subject is not going to be easy. It also >> splits the RIPE Community into 2 / 3 / 4 camps. Copyrighting on >> certain Services, making people pay for copies. It will de-stabilise >> the RIPE NCC and the Community. >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist: Well, a number of people are questioning the order >> and priority of the activities. >> >> Rob Blockzijl (RIPE Chair): I hope that one of the results of having >> this WG is to make people remember why certain services were created >> in the past, as the NCC did not just came up on a idle afternoon with: >> "let's create an activity". The NCC has always listened to the >> Community's input. It might not have been clear as to where and when >> the decisions were taken, that's why I'm glad we have this WG. Having >> it, it is possible to revisit the past and re-evaluate current >> services, although it might be more constructive to look at the future >> and we can improve. >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist : How many of you have read the Activity Plan? >> [~10 max raised their hands] >> I'm concerned because some people on the mailing list indicated that >> they can not influence the AP, but most here have not read it. >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist : If there are no other questions I'll see you all on >> Thursday. >> >> FINISH >> >> NO ACTIONS >> >> _______________________________________________________________ >> >> Slot 2, Thursday 4/9 11.00-12.30 >> >> 5. Presentation on X.509 and certificates (by >> Dirk-Willem van Gulik - apache) >> Discussions around the x.509 implementation of the RIPE NCC >> and what other RIRs have done. >> 6. DNS Services - Modification Plans (Olaf Kolkman) >> 7. Proposals from the community >> 8. Discussion & input time / Open Mic session >> X. AOB >> Z. Close >> >> ________________________________________________________________ >> >> 5. Presentation on X.509 and certificates (by >> Dirk-Willem van Gulik - apache) >> Discussions around the x.509 implementation of the RIPE NCC >> and what other RIRs have done. >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist: As there were quite a lot of questions on the >> mailing list about X.509, we will have a presentation about it and >> also invite the other RIRs to explain what they are doing in their >> region. Also, at the last session I forgot to mention that we might >> require a co-chair, as it is mentioned in the charter. >> >> Dirk-Willem van Gulik: This presentation focuses mainly on the issue >> of trust, not as much on the technical aspects of X.509 >> >> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46- >> nccserv-pki-x509.pdf >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist : any questions ? >> [None] >> >> Presentation by Andrei Robachevsky, Chief Technical Officer, Ripe NCC >> >> "PKI development at the RIPE NCC" >> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46- >> nccserv-pki.pdf >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist: any questions? >> >> Taiji Kimura from JPNIC: are there plans for non-repudiation of the >> query, validate queries to the DB? >> >> Andrei Robachevsky : no, this is not about the DB itself, but more >> about correspondence with the NCC. >> >> Wilfried Woeber (DB WG Chair): We have been discussing whether we want >> to introduce a system to tag objects in the DB with the auth method >> that was used for the last update of the object. This is an idea that >> we have been playing with, if the community wants this, then please >> come forward with a plan. >> >> Wilfried Woeber: About integrating a Certification Authority across >> RIRs, I would recommend to first try it in our region, find out if it >> works well. I'm not a fan of having hierarchy in the trust >> model. Individual registries should do it in their region, then we >> find out what we need to cross the borders. I would not like RIRs to >> all go to Verisign for instance. >> >> Janos Zsako (RIPE NCC Executive Board): about message signing, we live >> with the assumptions that the db is in a secure server, so whether >> after the modification/update with PKI the data is still stable is >> questionable. We can store the update method, again assuming that the >> db cannot be corrupted in the mean time. So we need a system that >> verifies that the db has not been corrupted. >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist: in conclusion, issue is if queries and/or DB entries >> must be signed, and whether the content of the DB is secure, but this >> is maybe more a topic for the DB WG. >> >> ARIN - Ginny Listman: >> >> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46- >> nccserv-arin-x509.pdf >> >> APNIC - Anne Lord: we are doing the same as Ripe NCC, issuing >> certificates for our equivalent of the LIR Portal, MyApnic. We have >> issued 500 certificates so far. >> >> LACNIC Raul Echeberria: we would like to implement a certification >> system before 2004. Right now we are still working on the budget that >> would be needed for it. >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist: Thank you all. >> >> 6. DNS Services - Modification Plans (Olaf Kolkman) >> >> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46- >> nccserv-rdns.pdf >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist : I like the idea, any questions ? >> [None] >> >> 7. Proposals from the community >> 8. Discussion & input time / Open Mic session >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist: Now we have the open mike session: floor is open. In >> future sessions I would like to have people's presentations or >> proposals in writing on the mailing list before they are presented at >> RIPE Meetings >> >> Hank Nussbacher (IUCC): I have been asked by many people to speak up >> during this WG as I have sent some emails to the mailing list. My view >> is that a lot of the members had their budget cut and the NNC has not >> had their budget cut in the same fashion. We are apathetic, 2250 euro >> is not that much to warrant that people can spend 250 euro/1 hour of >> their time on the mailing list. There are many good things in the NCC: >> DB group is the world leader. But to evaluate how the NCC is spending >> their money we need a more transparent Activity Plan. For instance for >> the trainings, they are free of charge. I would like to know the >> budget and man-power needed for these free trainings. Instead, it's >> budget is incorporated in the RS budget, there is no way to know how >> much of that is used for the trainings, there is no break-down of the >> costs. The TTM group, IRT - there has been nothing mentioned about it >> at this meeting BTW - there is nothing about it in the AP, therefore >> we do not know the manpower and budget it needs, the only way to know >> for the membership is to have a break-down and it does not exist. 10 >> to 20 people have responded to my mails, which is not really enough to >> know what the majority of the community thinks about these issues. >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist : yes, people do not care, like we saw at the last >> session on Tuesday, that only a handful read the AP. I guess the >> majority is happy, but that is difficult to double-check, people do >> not go on the mailing list only to say that they are happy. Next year >> at the RIPE Meeting in May, the NCC will give more insight on the >> budget & AP and there will be more time for comment before the Annual >> Meeting 3 months later. >> >> Axel Pawlik: The level of detail we give in the financial report, >> question is: how deep should we go into detail? For the trainings yes, >> not so difficult. I will work together with the Board to see what we >> can adapt. And I would like to clarify that the IRT is not really an >> incident response team, it is not a separate team as such. It is an >> activity. >> >> Hank Nussbacher : let's say that the TTM group costs a 300.000 >> euros/year, but we can get the same service from a commercial >> company. Why not do a market survey before introducing a new activity? >> >> Axel Pawlik: About the TTM, there is a lot of info about it in the AP. >> >> Daniel Karrenberg: I worry because of economic problems. Training, if >> the membership wants more transparency, OK, but whether it is really >> necessary? Why train New LIRs, what do I care? As one of the persons >> who started with these trainings, I would like to clarify that they >> are not done only for the benefit of the trainee, but to the whole >> community as well. Creating a well oiled community. The better things >> work, the less interaction at the NCC. Also, the NCC would not be as >> accepted without trainings. For many people, it is only by attending >> the courses that they understand and accept the NCC's role. Just >> looking at it from a financial point of view, if you do that too much, >> you might risk the NCC as a whole organisation. You want and need the >> NCC to be more stable than the rest of the members. The impact of the >> NCC crumbling is a whole lot different. I also would like to remind >> people that one of the ways for us to ensure impartiality and >> neutrality is by hiring international staff, this is expensive. Were >> we to be driven only by financials, we would not hire from Turkey or >> Africa. Yes, lets have a look at the financials, but lets us not be >> driven by it. Because it might be good for today, but not for >> tomorrow. >> >> Kurtis Lindqvist: I agree, but showing the members the budget is not >> saying that you are doing things bad. There are 2 issues: >> 1) transparency on costs and >> 2) evaluation of activities and how they benefit the community. >> >> Hank Nussbacher: Some services are excellent. But whether it benefits >> the community that someone goes to all the ICANN Meetings, it is >> needed, but the members might think it is not. In the same way that >> the Membership would live, accept to still have mail-from auth, but we >> have it better. >> >> Kurt Kayser (N-IX Nurnberg Internet eXchange) : About the trainings, a >> while back I proposed to find partners in countries, we could offer >> the service to train people in German, since we are very familiar with >> all the policies & procedures. But I never heard anything about this >> from the NCC. >> >> Axel Pawlik : We are looking at better ways of doing our >> trainings. People like our trainings but it does not scale, your >> proposal does scale. But how do we do it, how is that training >> standardised, do we need to certify trainers ??? But we are definitely >> looking at it. >> >> Daniel Bovio (RIPE NCC Board): Hank said that the "silent majority" do >> not care to show up at meetings, or communicate on the >> mailing-list. This is a problem, they do not know what the activities >> are. We, the RIPE Community, have always been the main source for >> ideas to the NCC and their activities. The Board needs to go on with >> these activities anyway, try to involve members, find out what they >> want, the survey was good in this respect. This group is the main >> source of the main ideas, there is a vast group that don't care, >> others do and those end up leading were the ship is going. We do not >> get enough feedback. >> >> Kurtis: Thank you all for coming >> >> FINISH >> >> NO ACTIONS >>

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Change of Minumum IPv4 Allocation Size
by Filiz Yilmaz 23 Dec '03

23 Dec '03

Dear Colleagues, The final date for comments on the "Last Call" on the proposal to change the minimum IPv4 allocation size to /21 ended on 22 December 2003. There were no comments made therefore we will implement this policy change on 1 January 2004. Please note that there will be two changes. Firstly, the minimum IPv4 allocation size is /21. Secondly, it is no longer required to demonstrate efficient utilisation of a /22. Our supporting documentation and software will be updated as soon as possible. Please note that /21 allocations will only come from the 83.0.0.0/8 and 84.0.0.0/8 blocks. A full listing of the "Smallest RIPE NCC Allocation / Assignment Sizes" can be found at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/smallest-alloc-sizes.html Kind regards, Filiz Yilmaz Snr. Hostmaster RIPE NCC

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LIR Portal maintenance
by Shane Kerr 16 Dec '03

16 Dec '03

Dear Colleagues, On Wednesday, 17th December, between 10:00 and 11:00 CET, there will be a temporary power outage affecting the RIPE NCC LIR Portal. Expected downtime is 15 minutes. During this period the LIR Portal will be unavailable. We apologise for any inconvenience that this downtime may cause to your operations. Regards, -- Shane Kerr RIPE NCC

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Version 2.0 of the LIR Portal to be released on 15 December 2003
by Paul Rendek 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

[Apologies for duplicate mails.] Dear Colleagues, We are pleased to announce the release of version 2.0 of the RIPE NCC LIR Portal, the web interface that provides LIRs with simplified access to RIPE NCC services. Version 2.0 of the LIR Portal will be released on Monday, 15 December 2003. Following input received from the RIPE NCC membership, new functionality in version 2.0 of the LIR Portal includes: - Provider Aggregatable (PA) Assignment Request Wizard The wizard is designed for users that are new to the PA request form. It guides the user through the fields, automatically completes certain fields and ensures that the user supplies all the necessary information for RIPE NCC Hostmasters to evaluate the request. This wizard is offered in addition to the existing CGI PA Request Form, which is still available. - Access to multiple LIR Portal accounts LIR Portal users who are contacts for more than one LIR can now be easily added to other LIR Portal accounts and can move between accounts without having to log out and log back in again. - Training Notifications A notification message regarding upcoming training courses in a user's country will be visible on the front page of the LIR Portal as soon as the user logs in. With the release of version 2.0, users will also notice that the navigation menu has been expanded to make navigating the LIR Portal easier. Since the LIR Portal was released in January 2003, new features have been introduced including PKI functionality, the Allocation Editor, CGI request forms and access to member tools and utilities. Bug fixes and regular updates have also been made. We welcome your feedback. Comments on features of the LIR Portal should be sent to <lirportal-feedback(a)ripe.net>. Kind regards, Paul Rendek Head of Member Services & Communications RIPE NCC

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New Statistics Format Released
by Shane Kerr 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

Dear Colleagues, The RIPE NCC has been working with the other Regional Internet Registries (RIRs) - APNIC, ARIN, and LACNIC - to provide Internet number resource statistics in a common format and location. The RIR Statistic files summarise the current state of Internet number resources, and are intended to provide a snapshot of their status without transactional or historical details. The following changes will be made to the existing statistics files: - Addition of IPv6 allocations - Addition of Early Registry Transfer (ERX) IPv4 networks - Addition of Provider Independent (PI) assignments - MD5 checksum provided for verification - New directory - Minor changes in format The statistics in the new format are available at: ftp://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/new/ And the statistics in the current format are available at: ftp://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/ The RIPE NCC will continue to produce the statistics in the current and new format until 5 January 2004. On this date, the statistics will be in the new format at: ftp://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/ Statistics previously generated will be available at: ftp://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/old/ Documentation of the format of these files may be found at: ftp://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/new/RIR-Statistics-Exchange-Format.txt -- Shane Kerr Software Engineering Department Manager RIPE NCC

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Deprecation of "cross-nfy:" and "cross-mnt:" attributes in the RIPE Whois Database
by Katie Petrusha 05 Dec '03

05 Dec '03

[ Apologies for duplicate messages ] Dear colleagues, "cross-nfy:" and "cross-mnt:" attributes will be deprecated in the RIPE Whois Database by 1 February 2004. The RIPE Whois Database previously had a cross notification mechanism. This mechanism used "cross-nfy:" and "cross-mnt:" attributes of route and aut-num objects to notify particular maintainers and contacts when an overlapping route object had been added or removed. In May 2003, this mechanism was deprecated, as it is already covered by Routing Policy System Security functionality. In March 2003, the proposal was circulated to deprecate "cross-nfy:" and "cross-mnt:" attributes in the RIPE Whois Database as they are no longer needed: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail-archives/db-wg/2003/msg00035.html Approximately 180 aut-num and 620 route objects will be affected by this change. These objects should be modified before 1 February 2003 and the "cross-nfy:" and/or "cross-mnt:" attributes should be removed from them. As soon as these attributes have been deprecated, they will not be accepted in the RIPE Whois Database. Therefore, we encourage everyone to make the necessary modifications in advance. The RIPE Database Administration will update the objects still requiring modifications to change deprecated attributes into "remarks:" attributes. No individual notifications will be sent. Relevant maintainers will be notified via the usual RIPE Whois Database notification mechanism. This information can be found at: http://www.ripe.net/db/cross_nfy_mnt_deprecation.html -- Katie Petrusha Software Engineering Department RIPE NCC

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Domain Cleanup Proposal
by RIPE Database Manager 04 Dec '03

04 Dec '03

Dear Colleagues, Please be aware that a Domain Clean-up Proposal has been sent to the Database WG mailing list: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail-archives/db-wg/2003/msg00738.html To comment on the proposal and to follow the discussion please use the Database WG mailing list. Regards, -- Can Bican Software Engineering Department RIPE NCC

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Call for presenations
by Kurt Erik Lindqvist 03 Dec '03

03 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 All, this is the call for presentations for the RIPE NCC-Services Working Group at the RIPE-47 meeting in Amsterdam. Best regards, - - kurtis - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0.2 iQA/AwUBP83ERKarNKXTPFCVEQL8+QCg86NANB9k1T4jIRrD+Y+qT5WX5f4AnA4b yBoWcg0Xodim/eC0OR0vMwsq =dFVW -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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