Annual contribution payment options
Dear colleges, I would like to discuss the possibility to pay up RIPE NCC bills (annual contribution, to be more specific) in other currencies, than EURO. I can assume, as per the latest actions of the currency regulator - Central Bank of Russia, there is a chance that outgoing payments in EURO will be either impossible, or will be performed with double conversion with high commission at each step for Russian LIR holders. This will double the expense, of Russian LIRs. Not to mention, that payments made by sponsoring LIR significantly exceed regular contribution for an obvious reason. Therefore, I suggest the following measures to be discussed. 1. Break payments into quarters for Russian LIRs, and yet perhaps, we will overcome the limits set by central bank until Sept 9, 2021 2. Make it possible for the annual contribution to be made USD, etc. by prevailing cross-rate. 3. Evaluate the possibility to accept cryptocurrency (ETH, BTC, and etc). This post is totally about financial problems to be discussed, and therefore I kindly ask other members to avoid any political statements in this thread. -- ------ Alexey S. Berezhnev Office: +7 495 973 21 25
Hi, On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 01:10:58AM +0300, Alexey S. Berezhnev wrote:
3. Evaluate the possibility to accept cryptocurrency (ETH, BTC, and etc).
I strongly reject any use of proof-of-work based cryptocurrencies in the RIPE NCC context (or anywhere else, but do not get to vote there). Gert Doering -- LIR representative -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
Crypto currency is being widely used at ip exchanges. Why would RIPE NCC avoid them?
Hi,
On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 01:10:58AM +0300, Alexey S. Berezhnev wrote:
3. Evaluate the possibility to accept cryptocurrency (ETH, BTC, and etc).
I strongly reject any use of proof-of-work based cryptocurrencies in the RIPE NCC context (or anywhere else, but do not get to vote there).
Gert Doering -- LIR representative -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
Hi, On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 01:15:06PM +0300, alex wrote:
Crypto currency is being widely used at ip exchanges. Why would RIPE NCC avoid them?
"widely"? As I said: wherever I can I will vote to disallow proof-of-work based cryptocurrencies. The world can not afford to burn insane amount of energy for that. If you come up with a cryptocurrency that does not have massive negative environmental effects, all good for me. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
On 2022-03-10 11:19, Gert Doering wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 01:15:06PM +0300, alex wrote:
Crypto currency is being widely used at ip exchanges. Why would RIPE NCC avoid them? "widely"?
As I said: wherever I can I will vote to disallow proof-of-work based cryptocurrencies. The world can not afford to burn insane amount of energy for that.
If you come up with a cryptocurrency that does not have massive negative environmental effects, all good for me.
And just around the corner are "Proof of stake" for Etherum. -- Bengt Gördén Resilans AB
W dniu 10.03.2022 o 11:15, alex pisze:
Crypto currency is being widely used at ip exchanges. Why would RIPE NCC avoid them?
"Widely"? Where exactly? Crypto"curency" is a small niche among legitimate businesses - it is widely used as payment methods in shady places that value anonymity foremost and have huge margins that allow for cryptocurrency rapid fluctuations. And in all instances I am familiar with accepting "payment" in crypto "currency" is a major bookkeeping headache because it is treated similarly to share trading or barter exchange by fiscal authorities. -- Andrzej Ława tel. 500 206 268 DAWIS IT Sp. z o.o., 05-800 Pruszków, ul. Staszica 1 NIP 5342409456 / REGON 141663620/ KRS 0000319237
On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 01:10:58AM +0300, Alexey S. Berezhnev wrote:
3. Evaluate the possibility to accept cryptocurrency (ETH, BTC, and etc).
I strongly reject any use of proof-of-work based cryptocurrencies in the RIPE NCC context (or anywhere else, but do not get to vote there).
Agreed. And I’m sure that if we give the good folks at the RIPE NCC a bit of time, they can come up with a plan to deal with any short and/or long term disruptions in membership payments and banking systems. Alex Le Heux Network Architect Tucows Inc / Ting Fiber aleheux@tucowsinc.com
Dear Alex, Could you please to explain me one thing, bank of Russia ban EURO, but RIPE must to resolve this issue? May be author need to ask about this situation to their bank and bank of Russia? On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 1:17 PM Alex Le Heux <aleheux@tucowsinc.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 01:10:58AM +0300, Alexey S. Berezhnev wrote:
3. Evaluate the possibility to accept cryptocurrency (ETH, BTC, and etc).
I strongly reject any use of proof-of-work based cryptocurrencies in the RIPE NCC context (or anywhere else, but do not get to vote there).
Agreed.
And I’m sure that if we give the good folks at the RIPE NCC a bit of time, they can come up with a plan to deal with any short and/or long term disruptions in membership payments and banking systems.
Alex Le Heux Network Architect Tucows Inc / Ting Fiber aleheux@tucowsinc.com _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/greysticky%40gmail.co...
-- Sergey
Hi Serg, I remember, many years ago, when Ukranian LIRs often had difficulties paying their invoices on time due to the policies of their government and banks. The RIPE NCC created a process specifically for them to resolve these issues, because to allow local regulations to adversely affect the stability of the Internet Registry System would be contrary to the RIPE NCC’s mission. This is a similar situation. Best regards, Alex Le Heux Network Architect Tucows Inc / Ting Fiber aleheux@tucowsinc.com
On 11 Mar 2022, at 16:53, Serg Galat <greysticky@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Alex,
Could you please to explain me one thing, bank of Russia ban EURO, but RIPE must to resolve this issue? May be author need to ask about this situation to their bank and bank of Russia?
On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 1:17 PM Alex Le Heux <aleheux@tucowsinc.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 01:10:58AM +0300, Alexey S. Berezhnev wrote:
3. Evaluate the possibility to accept cryptocurrency (ETH, BTC, and etc).
I strongly reject any use of proof-of-work based cryptocurrencies in the RIPE NCC context (or anywhere else, but do not get to vote there).
Agreed.
And I’m sure that if we give the good folks at the RIPE NCC a bit of time, they can come up with a plan to deal with any short and/or long term disruptions in membership payments and banking systems.
Alex Le Heux Network Architect Tucows Inc / Ting Fiber aleheux@tucowsinc.com _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/greysticky%40gmail.co...
-- Sergey
Dear Alex, I've been supporting different Ukrainian LIRs for more than 20 years. I'm not remember that the National Bank of Ukraine bans EURO or any other currency. But, as far as I remember, UA LIRs had troubles with taxes inside Ukraine with payments to RIPE. They paid these taxes twice without some documents. And they just asked RIPE to do this paperwork. Is this situation similar? Realy? On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 6:31 PM Alex Le Heux <aleheux@tucowsinc.com> wrote:
Hi Serg,
I remember, many years ago, when Ukranian LIRs often had difficulties paying their invoices on time due to the policies of their government and banks.
The RIPE NCC created a process specifically for them to resolve these issues, because to allow local regulations to adversely affect the stability of the Internet Registry System would be contrary to the RIPE NCC’s mission.
This is a similar situation.
Best regards,
Alex Le Heux Network Architect Tucows Inc / Ting Fiber aleheux@tucowsinc.com
On 11 Mar 2022, at 16:53, Serg Galat <greysticky@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Alex,
Could you please to explain me one thing, bank of Russia ban EURO, but RIPE must to resolve this issue? May be author need to ask about this situation to their bank and bank of Russia?
On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 1:17 PM Alex Le Heux <aleheux@tucowsinc.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 01:10:58AM +0300, Alexey S. Berezhnev wrote:
3. Evaluate the possibility to accept cryptocurrency (ETH, BTC, and etc).
I strongly reject any use of proof-of-work based cryptocurrencies in the RIPE NCC context (or anywhere else, but do not get to vote there).
Agreed.
And I’m sure that if we give the good folks at the RIPE NCC a bit of time, they can come up with a plan to deal with any short and/or long term disruptions in membership payments and banking systems.
Alex Le Heux Network Architect Tucows Inc / Ting Fiber aleheux@tucowsinc.com _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/greysticky%40gmail.co...
-- Sergey
-- Sergey
Dear colleagues, Fully agreed with Gert. Crypto has no transparent origin. Blooded money, money from drugs and so on. Thank God that they do not offer to pay with gold or potatoes. On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 6:21 PM Gert Doering <gert@space.net> wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 01:10:58AM +0300, Alexey S. Berezhnev wrote:
3. Evaluate the possibility to accept cryptocurrency (ETH, BTC, and etc).
I strongly reject any use of proof-of-work based cryptocurrencies in the RIPE NCC context (or anywhere else, but do not get to vote there).
Gert Doering -- LIR representative -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/greysticky%40gmail.co...
-- Sergey
All money is blood money afterall.
Dear colleagues,
Fully agreed with Gert. Crypto has no transparent origin. Blooded money, money from drugs and so on. Thank God that they do not offer to pay with gold or potatoes.
On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 6:21 PM Gert Doering <gert@space.net> wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 01:10:58AM +0300, Alexey S. Berezhnev wrote:
3. Evaluate the possibility to accept cryptocurrency (ETH, BTC, and etc).
I strongly reject any use of proof-of-work based cryptocurrencies in the RIPE NCC context (or anywhere else, but do not get to vote there).
Gert Doering -- LIR representative -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/greysticky%40gmail.co...
-- Sergey
"Alexey S. Berezhnev" <alex@mac3.ru> wrote:
I would like to discuss the possibility to pay up RIPE NCC bills (annual contribution, to be more specific) in other currencies, than EURO.
I'm also interested in this, especially p2p money. Unfortunately I think that countries that join the Euro Area are obliged to make it the only legal tender. This probably means that transactions in other currencies would have to be converted to EUR immediately.
Yes, certainly, but the fact is that I suggest, that the money could be withdrawn in USD if one is paying with a bank card or by wire transfer. Apparently, we did not make it clear enough to our colleagues once the EURO payment processed in Russia it actually doubles the payment.
"Alexey S. Berezhnev" <alex@mac3.ru> wrote:
I would like to discuss the possibility to pay up RIPE NCC bills (annual contribution, to be more specific) in other currencies, than EURO.
I'm also interested in this, especially p2p money.
Unfortunately I think that countries that join the Euro Area are obliged to make it the only legal tender. This probably means that transactions in other currencies would have to be converted to EUR immediately.
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/alex%40mac3.ru
I would vote for accepting cryptocurrencies and considering it a very important proposal. They represent a robust instrument that can help to maintain the Internet neutrality and are very aligned with RIPE's views and ideology. Regardless of their environmental impact, avoiding them will not make any difference at the global scale. For instance, it was proven that banks consume 520% more energy, releasing almost 6 times more CO2 than Bitcoin. On Wednesday, March 09, 2022 22:10 UTC, "Alexey S. Berezhnev" <alex@mac3.ru> wrote: Dear colleges, I would like to discuss the possibility to pay up RIPE NCC bills (annual contribution, to be more specific) in other currencies, than EURO. I can assume, as per the latest actions of the currency regulator - Central Bank of Russia, there is a chance that outgoing payments in EURO will be either impossible, or will be performed with double conversion with high commission at each step for Russian LIR holders. This will double the expense, of Russian LIRs. Not to mention, that payments made by sponsoring LIR significantly exceed regular contribution for an obvious reason. Therefore, I suggest the following measures to be discussed. 1. Break payments into quarters for Russian LIRs, and yet perhaps, we will overcome the limits set by central bank until Sept 9, 2021 2. Make it possible for the annual contribution to be made USD, etc. by prevailing cross-rate. 3. Evaluate the possibility to accept cryptocurrency (ETH, BTC, and etc). This post is totally about financial problems to be discussed, and therefore I kindly ask other members to avoid any political statements in this thread. -- ------ Alexey S. Berezhnev Office: +7 495 973 21 25 _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/lir%40zrm.services
W dniu 10.03.2022 o 19:37, Serhiy pisze:
I would vote for accepting cryptocurrencies and considering it a very important proposal. They represent a robust instrument that can help to maintain the Internet neutrality and are very aligned with RIPE's views and ideology.
Neutrality? How so? How paying with shady non-traceable virtual commodity (because in no way it could be considered money) is supposed to help neutrality and transparency? Not to mention plain legal and fiscal obstacles: https://www.mpraccountants.nl/cryptocurrencies-in-the-netherlands/?lang=en Again: it is not currency, it is a virtual commodity. You could as well propose payment in gold, diamonds or fuel. -- Andrzej Ława tel. 500 206 268 DAWIS IT Sp. z o.o., 05-800 Pruszków, ul. Staszica 1 NIP 5342409456 / REGON 141663620/ KRS 0000319237
W dniu 09.03.2022 o 23:10, Alexey S. Berezhnev pisze:
Dear colleges,
I would like to discuss the possibility to pay up RIPE NCC bills (annual contribution, to be more specific) in other currencies, than EURO.
Adding another currency would complicate book keeping a bit, but technically I think it would be possible - however it seems you will have similar problems trying to pay in USD too. Cryptocurrency proposal is, frankly, unrealistic (I hope that word is not offensive?). This is "currency" in name only - it is an instrument for speculation and covert (and quite random) fund transfers. Cryprto "currency" could loss value instantly and all fiscal authorities treat it not as money but as financial speculative instrument so it increases all tax headaches. In other words - it is about as realistic as paying with shares preferred by very adventurous investors plus anonymity that will baffle tax authorities (how will you prove to tax authorities who paid for the service and from where when cryptos are designed to be anonymnous?) Sorry if your currency is becoming worthless and as convertible as NK won, but whose fault is that? Besides Russia seems to be preparing to disconnect from the Internet (at least according to Russian government) so it will become a moot point anyway. -- Andrzej Ława tel. 500 206 268 DAWIS IT Sp. z o.o., 05-800 Pruszków, ul. Staszica 1 NIP 5342409456 / REGON 141663620/ KRS 0000319237
Dear Alexey, all, Thank you for your suggestions. We have done a quick review, and our current response is as follows: 1) We used to accept payment in quarterly/half-yearly terms but removed this option in 2017 because of the additional administrative overhead. It may not seem much to invoice and receive four payments rather than one, but the complications due to transfer and closure related aspects linked to payment requirements, and the additional work following the high number of reminders that had to be sent, lead to this decision. For the 2022 invoices, the process has now been started, so we are not able to make any changes for this year. There is however nothing that prevents you to split the payment into multiple payments as long as they amount to the invoice total and are clearly marked with the payment reference stated on the invoice: Debtor Number/Invoice Number. We will however take another look at this for future years, taking into account that we still need to treat all members equally. 2) The RIPE NCC charging scheme specifies the fees in Euro. Since the vast majority of our cost base is in Euro this not only provides equal terms for all members but also the lowest currency risk for the RIPE NCC. It is possible to transfer money in other currencies to our ABN AMRO EURO account. Some members do this already but we do not recommend it. When the foreign currency is received by ABN AMRO, the bank exchanges these funds to EUR on the daily exchange rate defined by ABN AMRO. This may result in overpayment or underpayment, which causes additional work on both the member and RIPE NCC side. We have in the past had bank accounts in USD in Dutch banks. The banks are not only subject to European regulations but also in most cases to US OFAC sanctions. The bank may require us to add additional controls to ensure that OFAC sanctioned members do not transfer money to these accounts without obtaining an OFAC licence. We are currently investigating options in this area. 3) We briefly investigated cryptocurrency payments and apart from the environmental considerations of the proof-of-work currencies, our bank’s know your customer (KYC) programs mandated by anti-money laundering regulations put us at additional risk by accepting payment through unregulated monetary instruments due to the anonymity provided by these financial instruments. We are currently monitoring this. If any of your finance teams have experience in this we are interested to learn more from them. As of today, we accept the following payment mechanisms: https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/receiving-and-paying... It’s important to know that despite the issues I mention above, we will not close any members due to payment difficulties or sanctions-related matters in affected countries. And we will contact any members who might be impacted to let them know. Our focus is to ensure our members stay operational during these difficult times. Sincerely Hans Petter Holen Managing Director RIPE NCC
On 9 Mar 2022, at 23:10, Alexey S. Berezhnev <alex@mac3.ru> wrote:
Dear colleges,
I would like to discuss the possibility to pay up RIPE NCC bills (annual contribution, to be more specific) in other currencies, than EURO.
I can assume, as per the latest actions of the currency regulator - Central Bank of Russia, there is a chance that outgoing payments in EURO will be either impossible, or will be performed with double conversion with high commission at each step for Russian LIR holders. This will double the expense, of Russian LIRs. Not to mention, that payments made by sponsoring LIR significantly exceed regular contribution for an obvious reason.
Therefore, I suggest the following measures to be discussed.
1. Break payments into quarters for Russian LIRs, and yet perhaps, we will overcome the limits set by central bank until Sept 9, 2021
2. Make it possible for the annual contribution to be made USD, etc. by prevailing cross-rate.
3. Evaluate the possibility to accept cryptocurrency (ETH, BTC, and etc).
This post is totally about financial problems to be discussed, and therefore I kindly ask other members to avoid any political statements in this thread.
-- ------ Alexey S. Berezhnev Office: +7 495 973 21 25
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hph%40ripe.net
participants (9)
-
alex -
Alex Le Heux -
Alexey S. Berezhnev
-
Andrzej Ława -
Bengt Gördén -
Gert Doering -
Hans Petter Holen -
Pavel Polyakov -
Serg Galat -
Serhiy