Dear RIPC NCC, I have received a notification that billing scheme would be changed from quarterly to annually. But it will be impossible for me to pay such big amount of money in one time. I ask you not to change the payment scheme. As I'm a private entrepreneur, it will be impossible to pay such amount in one payment. Hope for your understanding. -- Kind regards, Serhii Khomenko
Hi, the same problem here. I understand the problem for managing so many invoices but it became hard for little busunesses. Il giorno mar 8 gen 2019, 07:44 Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Dear RIPC NCC, I have received a notification that billing scheme would be changed from quarterly to annually. But it will be impossible for me to pay such big amount of money in one time. I ask you not to change the payment scheme. As I'm a private entrepreneur, it will be impossible to pay such amount in one payment.
Hope for your understanding.
-- Kind regards, Serhii Khomenko
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I now do not understand how in our computer age - maybe there is a problem with the processing of invoices for payment? I want to remind you that the first stages of the rockets are already landing on the ground themselves... Maybe you still need to do everything so that it was convenient first of all for the client, and not for his accounting department? Alexander 8 січня 2019, 12:48:45, від "Marketing KTECHNOLOGY" <marketing@ktechnology.it>: Hi, the same problem here. I understand the problem for managing so many invoices but it became hard for little busunesses. Il giorno mar 8 gen 2019, 07:44 Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> ha scritto: Dear RIPC NCC, I have received a notification that billing scheme would be changed from quarterly to annually. But it will be impossible for me to pay such big amount of money in one time. I ask you not to change the payment scheme. As I'm a private entrepreneur, it will be impossible to pay such amount in one payment. Hope for your understanding. -- Kind regards, Serhii Khomenko _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/marketing%40ktechnolo... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/buzaev.weecomi%40ukr....
With all the confusion around billing I've seen on this list, I understand RIPE discontinuing their service of allowing quarterly payments. You can get a loan to bridge the first year and save up for subsequent years, essentially replacing RIPE's free service by a commercial one with an interest for the first year and by saving up yourself for the following years. The extra costs of this change are only the interest for such a business loan (which depends on the inflation of the currency your business uses, but for EUR currently around 3-6% afaik). Even if it were 10% interest on the €1k4 fee it'd be €140 spread out over a year (=€12/month), that should not be a burden even for a very small business. -- Regards, Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V. Please quote relevant replies.
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Marketing KTECHNOLOGY Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 9:23 AM To: Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme
Hi, the same problem here.
I understand the problem for managing so many invoices but it became hard for little busunesses.
Il giorno mar 8 gen 2019, 07:44 Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com <mailto:khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> > ha scritto:
Dear RIPC NCC, I have received a notification that billing scheme would be changed from quarterly to annually. But it will be impossible for me to pay such big amount of money in one time. I ask you not to change the payment scheme. As I'm a private entrepreneur, it will be impossible to pay such amount in one payment.
Hope for your understanding.
-- Kind regards, Serhii Khomenko
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I see that you didn't read my letter at all. My a very small business as you said give me €1k per month. I've collected €1050 to pay my quarterly payment for 3 LIR's. If the RIPE will compels me to pay annual payments for these 3 LIR's, this amount will reach 1400x3 = €4200. And what do you offer me? Sell my house to pay this invoice? Or take a loan in a bank? To your knowledge, the interest on a loan may reach 40% annually. The only reason for such changes in billing scheme I see in the impending crisis of IPv4 and in this way RIPE wants to take back as more IPv4 blocks as they can, because I will be forced to close my LIR's if I would be forced to pay annually. Organizations like RIPE should work on improvement of the service but not on the complication of life for its members. Have a good day. -- Kind regards, Serhii Khomenko 08.01.19 13:22, Terrence Koeman пише:
With all the confusion around billing I've seen on this list, I understand RIPE discontinuing their service of allowing quarterly payments.
You can get a loan to bridge the first year and save up for subsequent years, essentially replacing RIPE's free service by a commercial one with an interest for the first year and by saving up yourself for the following years.
The extra costs of this change are only the interest for such a business loan (which depends on the inflation of the currency your business uses, but for EUR currently around 3-6% afaik). Even if it were 10% interest on the €1k4 fee it'd be €140 spread out over a year (=€12/month), that should not be a burden even for a very small business.
I don’t know what the motivation behind the change is, but RIPE definitely has no incentive to "take back as more IPv4 blocks as they can". There has been consistent confusion on this list about RIPE's willingness to accept quarterly payments even though it's a yearly fee. If the change stops this confusion it's a good change for that reason alone. You seem to be similarly confused: RIPE, by allowing quarterly payments, was essentially giving zero interest credit for the LIR fees to any member that wanted it. The LIR fees were always a yearly payment. As this was basically a gift, they are in no way obliged to keep doing it just because you are relying on it. And, considering there are "payment options for members with cash flow limitations" (e.g. you), it seems to me that, instead of publicly accusing RIPE of wanting to bankrupt your business to grab back resources, you should be asking them what payment options are available to you. I know that if I were extending a zero interest credit line and got confusion, complaints and accusations in return, I'd definitely stop doing so too. -- Regards, Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V. Please quote relevant replies.
-----Original Message----- From: Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 1:52 PM To: Terrence Koeman <terrence@darkness-reigns.com>; 'Marketing KTECHNOLOGY' <marketing@ktechnology.it> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem
I see that you didn't read my letter at all. My a very small business as you said give me €1k per month. I've collected €1050 to pay my quarterly payment for 3 LIR's. If the RIPE will compels me to pay annual payments for these 3 LIR's, this amount will reach 1400x3 = €4200. And what do you offer me? Sell my house to pay this invoice? Or take a loan in a bank? To your knowledge, the interest on a loan may reach 40% annually. The only reason for such changes in billing scheme I see in the impending crisis of IPv4 and in this way RIPE wants to take back as more IPv4 blocks as they can, because I will be forced to close my LIR's if I would be forced to pay annually. Organizations like RIPE should work on improvement of the service but not on the complication of life for its members.
Have a good day.
--
Kind regards,
Serhii Khomenko
With all the confusion around billing I've seen on this list, I understand RIPE discontinuing their service of allowing quarterly
08.01.19 13:22, Terrence Koeman пише: payments.
You can get a loan to bridge the first year and save up for subsequent
years, essentially replacing RIPE's free service by a commercial one with an interest for the first year and by saving up yourself for the following years.
The extra costs of this change are only the interest for such a business
loan (which depends on the inflation of the currency your business uses, but for EUR currently around 3-6% afaik). Even if it were 10% interest on the €1k4 fee it'd be €140 spread out over a year (=€12/month), that should not be a burden even for a very small business.
* Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> [2019-01-08 15:26]:
I see that you didn't read my letter at all. My a very small business as you said give me €1k per month. I've collected €1050 to pay my quarterly payment for 3 LIR's. If the RIPE will compels me to pay annual payments for these 3
Hi Serhii, why do you have 3 LIRs when you're only a small business? Regards Sebastian
Hello Sebastian, Because its difficult to build a big business in one year. And with such changes that RIPE plans to make it would be even more difficult. -- Kind regards, Serhii Khomenko 08.01.19 17:21, Sebastian Wiesinger пише:
* Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> [2019-01-08 15:26]:
I see that you didn't read my letter at all. My a very small business as you said give me €1k per month. I've collected €1050 to pay my quarterly payment for 3 LIR's. If the RIPE will compels me to pay annual payments for these 3 Hi Serhii,
why do you have 3 LIRs when you're only a small business?
Regards
Sebastian
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* Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> [2019-01-09 10:03]:
Hello Sebastian,
Because its difficult to build a big business in one year. And with such changes that RIPE plans to make it would be even more difficult.
Hi Serhii, when I parse your answer correctly you mean you need more IPv4 space. In that case the policy / pricing works as expected. You are not supposed to open multiple LIRs just to get IPv4. The pricing is done to prevent this. Seems it works as intended. IPv4 is over. Regards Sebastian
You already received invoice for 2019? Von meinem iPhone gesendet
Am 09.01.2019 um 10:07 schrieb Sebastian Wiesinger <sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net>:
* Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> [2019-01-09 10:03]:
Hello Sebastian,
Because its difficult to build a big business in one year. And with such changes that RIPE plans to make it would be even more difficult.
Hi Serhii,
when I parse your answer correctly you mean you need more IPv4 space. In that case the policy / pricing works as expected. You are not supposed to open multiple LIRs just to get IPv4. The pricing is done to prevent this. Seems it works as intended. IPv4 is over.
Regards
Sebastian
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You already received invoice for 2019? the documents should have come on February 18th. today already 20 14.01.2019 20:26, Marcel Geis пишет:
You already received invoice for 2019?
Von meinem iPhone gesendet
Am 09.01.2019 um 10:07 schrieb Sebastian Wiesinger <sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net>:
* Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> [2019-01-09 10:03]:
Hello Sebastian,
Because its difficult to build a big business in one year. And with such changes that RIPE plans to make it would be even more difficult. Hi Serhii,
when I parse your answer correctly you mean you need more IPv4 space. In that case the policy / pricing works as expected. You are not supposed to open multiple LIRs just to get IPv4. The pricing is done to prevent this. Seems it works as intended. IPv4 is over.
Regards
Sebastian
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-- <http://www.smartkom.ru/> *С уважением, Фоминых Николай Николаевич* Руководитель отдела технического развития Группы компаний "Смартком", г.Омск тел. +7 (3812) 92-50-50 доп. 707
You already received invoice for 2019?
I’m not. And I have send the 3 letter for billing@ripe.net<mailto:billing@ripe.net> Regards, Alexey Bogomolov Head of IT infrastructure IT operations Department «Medsi group» JSC • +7(495) 737-07-93 ext 12348 • +7 917 515 0188 • bogomolov.av@medsigroup.ru<mailto:bogomolov.av@medsigroup.ru> " www.medsi.ru û 56 bld 1, Zoological str, Moscow, 119192, RU<https://www.google.ru/maps/place/55%C2%B045'52.6%22N+37%C2%B034'45.7%22E/@55.764616,37.5788108,19z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d55.764616!4d37.5793576?hl=ru> [cid:image002.png@01CF4435.3C90C5F0] From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Фоминых Николай Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 10:09 AM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem You already received invoice for 2019? the documents should have come on February 18th. today already 20 14.01.2019 20:26, Marcel Geis пишет: You already received invoice for 2019? Von meinem iPhone gesendet Am 09.01.2019 um 10:07 schrieb Sebastian Wiesinger <sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net><mailto:sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net>: * Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com><mailto:khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> [2019-01-09 10:03]: Hello Sebastian, Because its difficult to build a big business in one year. And with such changes that RIPE plans to make it would be even more difficult. Hi Serhii, when I parse your answer correctly you mean you need more IPv4 space. In that case the policy / pricing works as expected. You are not supposed to open multiple LIRs just to get IPv4. The pricing is done to prevent this. Seems it works as intended. IPv4 is over. Regards Sebastian _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/m.geis%40harmony-solu... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/n.fominyh%40smartkom.... -- [http://www.smartkom.ru/images/logomail.png]<http://www.smartkom.ru/> С уважением, Фоминых Николай Николаевич Руководитель отдела технического развития Группы компаний "Смартком", г.Омск тел. +7 (3812) 92-50-50 доп. 707
Hi. As I know we will have invoices in 2 weeks, the delay caused by new tax law in Russia. С уважением, *Векли Сергей Сергеевич* ведущий инженер отдела ПД тел.: (861) 212 5008 моб.тел.: (928) 400 4225 s.vekli@hitel.ru <mailto:s.vekli@hitel.ru>; www.hitel.ru <http://www.hitel.ru/> *Служба поддержки: +7 (861) 212-50-00, 8 (800) 550-02-66* ** <http://www.hitel.ru/> 20.02.2019 10:47, Богомолов Алексей Владимирович пишет:
You already received invoice for 2019?
I’m not.
And I have send the 3 letter for billing@ripe.net <mailto:billing@ripe.net>
Regards,
**
*Alexey Bogomolov*
Head of IT infrastructure
IT operations Department
*«Medsi group» JSC*
( +7(495) 737-07-93 ext 12348
)+7 917 515 0188
-_bogomolov.av@medsigroup.ru <mailto:bogomolov.av@medsigroup.ru>___
"_www.medsi.ru___
û_56 bld 1, Zoological str, Moscow, 119192, RU <https://www.google.ru/maps/place/55%C2%B045'52.6%22N+37%C2%B034'45.7%22E/@55.764616,37.5788108,19z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d55.764616!4d37.5793576?hl=ru>_____
__
cid:image002.png@01CF4435.3C90C5F0
*From:*members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] *On Behalf Of *Фоминых Николай *Sent:* Wednesday, February 20, 2019 10:09 AM *To:* members-discuss@ripe.net *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem
You already received invoice for 2019? the documents should have come on February 18th. today already 20
14.01.2019 20:26, Marcel Geis пишет:
You already received invoice for 2019?
Von meinem iPhone gesendet
Am 09.01.2019 um 10:07 schrieb Sebastian Wiesinger<sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net> <mailto:sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net>:
* Serhii Khomenko<khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> <mailto:khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> [2019-01-09 10:03]:
Hello Sebastian,
Because its difficult to build a big business in one year. And with such
changes that RIPE plans to make it would be even more difficult.
Hi Serhii,
when I parse your answer correctly you mean you need more IPv4 space.
In that case the policy / pricing works as expected. You are not
supposed to open multiple LIRs just to get IPv4. The pricing is done
to prevent this. Seems it works as intended. IPv4 is over.
Regards
Sebastian
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https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
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-- <http://www.smartkom.ru/> *С уважением, Фоминых Николай Николаевич* Руководитель отдела технического развития Группы компаний "Смартком", г.Омск тел. +7 (3812) 92-50-50 доп. 707
Ðта чаÑÑ‚ÑŒ ÑÐ¾Ð¾Ð±Ñ‰ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð±ÑƒÐ´ÐµÑ‚ загружена по первому требованию.
Hello, We confirm that RIPE NCC billing is terrible this year. A lot of delays with invoices. A lot of invoices issues. Not all invoices ready yet. May be it's good idea that somebody will make normal invoicing for RIPE NCC if RIPE NCC can't do that in good order by themselves? Juri On 20.02.2019 11:04, Сергей Векли wrote:
Hi. As I know we will have invoices in 2 weeks, the delay caused by new tax law in Russia.
С уважением,
*Векли Сергей Сергеевич*
ведущий инженер отдела ПД
тел.: (861) 212 5008
моб.тел.: (928) 400 4225
s.vekli@hitel.ru <mailto:s.vekli@hitel.ru>; www.hitel.ru <http://www.hitel.ru/>
*Служба поддержки: +7 (861) 212-50-00, 8 (800) 550-02-66*
* *
20.02.2019 10:47, Богомолов Алексей Владимирович пишет:
You already received invoice for 2019?
I’m not.
And I have send the 3 letter for billing@ripe.net <mailto:billing@ripe.net>
Regards,
* *
*Alexey Bogomolov*
Head of IT infrastructure
IT operations Department
*«Medsi group» JSC*
( +7(495) 737-07-93 ext 12348
) +7 917 515 0188
- _bogomolov.av@medsigroup.ru <mailto:bogomolov.av@medsigroup.ru>___
" _www.medsi.ru___
û_56 bld 1, Zoological str, Moscow, 119192, RU <https://www.google.ru/maps/place/55%C2%B045'52.6%22N+37%C2%B034'45.7%22E/@55.764616,37.5788108,19z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d55.764616!4d37.5793576?hl=ru>_____
_ _
cid:image002.png@01CF4435.3C90C5F0
*From:*members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] *On Behalf Of *Фоминых Николай *Sent:* Wednesday, February 20, 2019 10:09 AM *To:* members-discuss@ripe.net *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem
You already received invoice for 2019? the documents should have come on February 18th. today already 20
14.01.2019 20:26, Marcel Geis пишет:
You already received invoice for 2019?
Von meinem iPhone gesendet
Am 09.01.2019 um 10:07 schrieb Sebastian Wiesinger <sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net> <mailto:sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net>:
* Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> <mailto:khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> [2019-01-09 10:03]:
Hello Sebastian,
Because its difficult to build a big business in one year. And with such
changes that RIPE plans to make it would be even more difficult.
Hi Serhii,
when I parse your answer correctly you mean you need more IPv4 space.
In that case the policy / pricing works as expected. You are not
supposed to open multiple LIRs just to get IPv4. The pricing is done
to prevent this. Seems it works as intended. IPv4 is over.
Regards
Sebastian
_______________________________________________
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members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>
https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/m.geis%40harmony-solu...
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-- <http://www.smartkom.ru/> *С уважением, Фоминых Николай Николаевич* Руководитель отдела технического развития Группы компаний "Смартком", г.Омск тел. +7 (3812) 92-50-50 доп. 707
Ðта чаÑÑ‚ÑŒ ÑÐ¾Ð¾Ð±Ñ‰ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð±ÑƒÐ´ÐµÑ‚ загружена по первому требованию.
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-- Juri +7 (499) 346-76-29
On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 12:21:51 +0300 Juri <hostmaster@ntx.ru> wrote:
We confirm that RIPE NCC billing is terrible this year. A lot of delays with invoices. A lot of invoices issues. Not all invoices ready yet.
May be it's good idea that somebody will make normal invoicing for RIPE NCC if RIPE NCC can't do that in good order by themselves?
I can confirm its just fine. I got ours Monday, due date 20.03.2019. Maybe you have some other problems? /Martin
Same here, works flawlessly, Arrived monday in the evening, due date 20/3/2019 -- Best regards, Piet On 2019-02-20 10:32, Martin Hein wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 12:21:51 +0300 Juri <hostmaster@ntx.ru> wrote:
We confirm that RIPE NCC billing is terrible this year. A lot of delays with invoices. A lot of invoices issues. Not all invoices ready yet.
May be it's good idea that somebody will make normal invoicing for RIPE NCC if RIPE NCC can't do that in good order by themselves? I can confirm its just fine. I got ours Monday, due date 20.03.2019.
Maybe you have some other problems?
/Martin
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Hi. Really? Does the new tax law in Russia influence on the billing in all Europe? More over the invoicing has Dutch VAT, but not Russian and it isn't applicable outside EU. ср, 20 февр. 2019 г., 12:16 Сергей Векли <s.vekli@hitel.ru>:
Hi. As I know we will have invoices in 2 weeks, the delay caused by new tax law in Russia.
С уважением,
*Векли Сергей Сергеевич*
ведущий инженер отдела ПД
тел.: (861) 212 5008
моб.тел.: (928) 400 4225
s.vekli@hitel.ru; www.hitel.ru
*Служба поддержки: +7 (861) 212-50-00, 8 (800) 550-02-66*
<http://www.hitel.ru/> 20.02.2019 10:47, Богомолов Алексей Владимирович пишет:
You already received invoice for 2019?
I’m not.
And I have send the 3 letter for billing@ripe.net
Regards,
*Alexey Bogomolov*
Head of IT infrastructure
IT operations Department
*«Medsi group» JSC*
( +7(495) 737-07-93 ext 12348
) +7 917 515 0188
- *bogomolov.av@medsigroup.ru <bogomolov.av@medsigroup.ru>*
" *www.medsi.ru <http://www.medsi.ru>*
û *56 bld 1, Zoological str, Moscow, 119192, RU <https://www.google.ru/maps/place/55%C2%B045'52.6%22N+37%C2%B034'45.7%22E/@55.764616,37.5788108,19z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d55.764616!4d37.5793576?hl=ru>*
[image: cid:image002.png@01CF4435.3C90C5F0]
*From:* members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>] *On Behalf Of *Фоминых Николай *Sent:* Wednesday, February 20, 2019 10:09 AM *To:* members-discuss@ripe.net *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem
You already received invoice for 2019?
the documents should have come on February 18th. today already 20
14.01.2019 20:26, Marcel Geis пишет:
You already received invoice for 2019?
Von meinem iPhone gesendet
Am 09.01.2019 um 10:07 schrieb Sebastian Wiesinger <sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net> <sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net>:
* Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> [2019-01-09 10:03]:
Hello Sebastian,
Because its difficult to build a big business in one year. And with such
changes that RIPE plans to make it would be even more difficult.
Hi Serhii,
when I parse your answer correctly you mean you need more IPv4 space.
In that case the policy / pricing works as expected. You are not
supposed to open multiple LIRs just to get IPv4. The pricing is done
to prevent this. Seems it works as intended. IPv4 is over.
Regards
Sebastian
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*С уважением, Фоминых Николай Николаевич* Руководитель отдела технического развития Группы компаний "Смартком", г.Омск тел. +7 (3812) 92-50-50 доп. 707
Ðта Ñ‡Ð°Ñ Ñ‚ÑŒ Ñ Ð¾Ð¾Ð±Ñ‰ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð±ÑƒÐ´ÐµÑ‚ загружена по первому требованию.
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/aleksbulgakov%40gmail...
I wrote here just what I heard via phone from RIPE. I had not asked about other countries. С уважением, *Векли Сергей Сергеевич* ведущий инженер отдела ПД тел.: (861) 212 5008 моб.тел.: (928) 400 4225 s.vekli@hitel.ru <mailto:s.vekli@hitel.ru>; www.hitel.ru <http://www.hitel.ru/> *Служба поддержки: +7 (861) 212-50-00, 8 (800) 550-02-66* ** <http://www.hitel.ru/> 20.02.2019 12:42, Aleksey Bulgakov пишет:
Hi.
Really? Does the new tax law in Russia influence on the billing in all Europe? More over the invoicing has Dutch VAT, but not Russian and it isn't applicable outside EU.
ср, 20 февр. 2019 г., 12:16 Сергей Векли <s.vekli@hitel.ru <mailto:s.vekli@hitel.ru>>:
Hi. As I know we will have invoices in 2 weeks, the delay caused by new tax law in Russia.
С уважением,
*Векли Сергей Сергеевич*
ведущий инженер отдела ПД
тел.: (861) 212 5008
моб.тел.: (928) 400 4225
s.vekli@hitel.ru <mailto:s.vekli@hitel.ru>; www.hitel.ru <http://www.hitel.ru/>
*Служба поддержки: +7 (861) 212-50-00, 8 (800) 550-02-66*
**
20.02.2019 10:47, Богомолов Алексей Владимирович пишет:
>>You already received invoice for 2019?
I’m not.
And I have send the 3 letter for billing@ripe.net <mailto:billing@ripe.net>
Regards,
**
*Alexey Bogomolov*
Head of IT infrastructure
IT operations Department
*«Medsi group» JSC*
( +7(495) 737-07-93 ext 12348
)+7 917 515 0188
-_bogomolov.av@medsigroup.ru <mailto:bogomolov.av@medsigroup.ru>___
"_www.medsi.ru <http://www.medsi.ru>___
û_56 bld 1, Zoological str, Moscow, 119192, RU <https://www.google.ru/maps/place/55%C2%B045'52.6%22N+37%C2%B034'45.7%22E/@55.764616,37.5788108,19z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d55.764616!4d37.5793576?hl=ru>_____
__
cid:image002.png@01CF4435.3C90C5F0
*From:*members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] *On Behalf Of *Фоминых Николай *Sent:* Wednesday, February 20, 2019 10:09 AM *To:* members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem
You already received invoice for 2019? the documents should have come on February 18th. today already 20
14.01.2019 20:26, Marcel Geis пишет:
You already received invoice for 2019?
Von meinem iPhone gesendet
Am 09.01.2019 um 10:07 schrieb Sebastian Wiesinger<sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net> <mailto:sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net>:
* Serhii Khomenko<khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> <mailto:khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> [2019-01-09 10:03]:
Hello Sebastian,
Because its difficult to build a big business in one year. And with such
changes that RIPE plans to make it would be even more difficult.
Hi Serhii,
when I parse your answer correctly you mean you need more IPv4 space.
In that case the policy / pricing works as expected. You are not
supposed to open multiple LIRs just to get IPv4. The pricing is done
to prevent this. Seems it works as intended. IPv4 is over.
Regards
Sebastian
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https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/m.geis%40harmony-solu...
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-- <http://www.smartkom.ru/> *С уважением, Фоминых Николай Николаевич* Руководитель отдела технического развития Группы компаний "Смартком", г.Омск тел. +7 (3812) 92-50-50 доп. 707
Ðта Ñ‡Ð°Ñ Ñ‚ÑŒ Ñ Ð¾Ð¾Ð±Ñ‰ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð±ÑƒÐ´ÐµÑ‚ загружена по первому требованию.
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On 2/20/19 10:42 AM, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote:
Really? Does the new tax law in Russia influence on the billing in all Europe?
Maybe just for Russian customers? We (located in NL) did receive our invoice on Monday. Yours sincerely, Floris Bos Maxnet
Hi all, It doesn't look as if it is only for Russian customers. We are based in Albania and what is strange is that we received the invoice only for one of our LIRs. Regards, Markel Digicom -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Floris Bos Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 10:56 AM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem On 2/20/19 10:42 AM, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote:
Really? Does the new tax law in Russia influence on the billing in all Europe?
Maybe just for Russian customers? We (located in NL) did receive our invoice on Monday. Yours sincerely, Floris Bos Maxnet _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/markel.stefo%40digico m.al
Me neither. And I am worried about it. Regards. De: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> En nombre de ????????? ??????? ???????????? Enviado el: miércoles, 20 de febrero de 2019 8:47 Para: Фоминых Николай <n.fominyh@smartkom.ru>; members-discuss@ripe.net Asunto: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem
You already received invoice for 2019?
I’m not. And I have send the 3 letter for billing@ripe.net<mailto:billing@ripe.net> Regards, Alexey Bogomolov Head of IT infrastructure IT operations Department «Medsi group» JSC • +7(495) 737-07-93 ext 12348 • +7 917 515 0188 • bogomolov.av@medsigroup.ru<mailto:bogomolov.av@medsigroup.ru> " www.medsi.ru û 56 bld 1, Zoological str, Moscow, 119192, RU<https://www.google.ru/maps/place/55%C2%B045'52.6%22N+37%C2%B034'45.7%22E/@55.764616,37.5788108,19z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d55.764616!4d37.5793576?hl=ru> [cid:image002.png@01CF4435.3C90C5F0] From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Фоминых Николай Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 10:09 AM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem You already received invoice for 2019? the documents should have come on February 18th. today already 20 14.01.2019 20:26, Marcel Geis пишет: You already received invoice for 2019? Von meinem iPhone gesendet Am 09.01.2019 um 10:07 schrieb Sebastian Wiesinger <sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net><mailto:sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net>: * Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com><mailto:khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> [2019-01-09 10:03]: Hello Sebastian, Because its difficult to build a big business in one year. And with such changes that RIPE plans to make it would be even more difficult. Hi Serhii, when I parse your answer correctly you mean you need more IPv4 space. In that case the policy / pricing works as expected. You are not supposed to open multiple LIRs just to get IPv4. The pricing is done to prevent this. Seems it works as intended. IPv4 is over. Regards Sebastian _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/m.geis%40harmony-solu... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/n.fominyh%40smartkom.... -- [Imagen quitada por el remitente.]<http://www.smartkom.ru/> С уважением, Фоминых Николай Николаевич Руководитель отдела технического развития Группы компаний "Смартком", г.Омск тел. +7 (3812) 92-50-50 доп. 707
On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 8:09 AM Фоминых Николай <n.fominyh@smartkom.ru> wrote:
You already received invoice for 2019? the documents should have come on February 18th. today already 20
Any LIR that applied for "transitional credit arrangements" in good time will not have received an invoice pending a decision on their ticket. There may be other factors if that is not the case. It boggles the mind that anyone would be complaining about *not* receiving an invoice. Regards David
A small business that is not able to make out a single 1400 EUR is not a small busines but a joke. IMHO Regards: L. Angeli -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Sebastian Wiesinger Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:22 PM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem * Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> [2019-01-08 15:26]:
I see that you didn't read my letter at all. My a very small business as you said give me €1k per month. I've collected €1050 to pay my quarterly payment for 3 LIR's. If the RIPE will compels me to pay annual payments for these 3
Hi Serhii, why do you have 3 LIRs when you're only a small business? Regards Sebastian _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/langeli%40matracomp.h...
Hi Angeli, If it's a joke for you so I'm glad that I made your smile. But for me it isn't a reason for laughing. I started work with RIPE's current terms and conditions and an important factor for me was the fact that there was an opportunity to pay on a quarterly basis. Based on this, I compiled my business plan. And the innovations that are planned to introduce will hit me out a lot. As far as I know, the annual payments were and are available to everyone. If it's convenient for you to pay annually, then you have the right to choose this form of payment. Why are you trying to impose a payment method that is convenient for you and far from acceptable to me and lots of LIR's like me. Does it your tolerance? In my turn, I do not convince anyone to switch to a quarterly payment. I'm just trying to defend my rights to a convenient payment method for me. As a member of the community, I have the rights to do so. Don't you think so? Do democracy and openness are just empty words for you and all must silently accept changes that will complicate the life of a large part of the community? -- Kind regards, Serhii Khomenko ср, 9 січ. 2019 р., 11:11 Angeli László користувач langeli@matracomp.hu пише:
A small business that is not able to make out a single 1400 EUR is not a small busines but a joke. IMHO
Regards:
L. Angeli
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Sebastian Wiesinger Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:22 PM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem
* Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> [2019-01-08 15:26]:
I see that you didn't read my letter at all. My a very small business as you said give me €1k per month. I've collected €1050 to pay my quarterly payment for 3 LIR's. If the RIPE will compels me to pay annual payments for these 3
Hi Serhii,
why do you have 3 LIRs when you're only a small business?
Regards
Sebastian
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/langeli%40matracomp.h... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/khomenko.serhii.m%40g...
* Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> [2019-01-09 13:31]:
openness are just empty words for you and all must silently accept changes that will complicate the life of a large part of the community?
Serhii, you are not speaking for a large part of the community. In fact it is mostly the same people complaining every time. Anyway, did you ask the RIPE NCC for available payment options? As the mail stated there are options available for members with resticted cash flow. Regards Sebastian
Hi, On 09.01.2019 12:21, Serhii Khomenko wrote:
I'm just trying to defend my rights to a convenient payment method for me.
Where is such a right defined? Kind regards, Jens
„that will complicate the life of a large part of the community” It is just a joke again I wouldn't call 10+ people the big part of the community. From: Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 12:21 PM To: Angeli László <langeli@matracomp.hu> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem Hi Angeli, If it's a joke for you so I'm glad that I made your smile. But for me it isn't a reason for laughing. I started work with RIPE's current terms and conditions and an important factor for me was the fact that there was an opportunity to pay on a quarterly basis. Based on this, I compiled my business plan. And the innovations that are planned to introduce will hit me out a lot. As far as I know, the annual payments were and are available to everyone. If it's convenient for you to pay annually, then you have the right to choose this form of payment. Why are you trying to impose a payment method that is convenient for you and far from acceptable to me and lots of LIR's like me. Does it your tolerance? In my turn, I do not convince anyone to switch to a quarterly payment. I'm just trying to defend my rights to a convenient payment method for me. As a member of the community, I have the rights to do so. Don't you think so? Do democracy and openness are just empty words for you and all must silently accept changes that will complicate the life of a large part of the community? -- Kind regards, Serhii Khomenko ср, 9 січ. 2019 р., 11:11 Angeli László користувач langeli@matracomp.hu<mailto:langeli@matracomp.hu> пише: A small business that is not able to make out a single 1400 EUR is not a small busines but a joke. IMHO Regards: L. Angeli -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> On Behalf Of Sebastian Wiesinger Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:22 PM To: members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem * Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com<mailto:khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com>> [2019-01-08 15:26]:
I see that you didn't read my letter at all. My a very small business as you said give me €1k per month. I've collected €1050 to pay my quarterly payment for 3 LIR's. If the RIPE will compels me to pay annual payments for these 3
Hi Serhii, why do you have 3 LIRs when you're only a small business? Regards Sebastian _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/langeli%40matracomp.h... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/khomenko.serhii.m%40g...
You are mistaken if you consider the statistics of the disgruntled LIRs by the number of people who spoke here. Their much more. Most lirs from Ukraine and Russia do not agree with the innovation. It would be enough to make a vote, where each lir could express its opinion, and you would see how many people would like to leave the current payment plan quarterly. On 10.01.19 02:11, Angeli László wrote:
„that will complicate the life of a large part of the community”
It is just a joke again I wouldn't call 10+ people the big part of the community.
*From:* Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 9, 2019 12:21 PM *To:* Angeli László <langeli@matracomp.hu> *Cc:* members-discuss@ripe.net *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem
Hi Angeli,
If it's a joke for you so I'm glad that I made your smile. But for me it isn't a reason for laughing. I started work with RIPE's current terms and conditions and an important factor for me was the fact that there was an opportunity to pay on a quarterly basis. Based on this, I compiled my business plan. And the innovations that are planned to introduce will hit me out a lot. As far as I know, the annual payments were and are available to everyone. If it's convenient for you to pay annually, then you have the right to choose this form of payment. Why are you trying to impose a payment method that is convenient for you and far from acceptable to me and lots of LIR's like me. Does it your tolerance? In my turn, I do not convince anyone to switch to a quarterly payment. I'm just trying to defend my rights to a convenient payment method for me. As a member of the community, I have the rights to do so. Don't you think so? Do democracy and openness are just empty words for you and all must silently accept changes that will complicate the life of a large part of the community?
--
Kind regards,
Serhii Khomenko
ср, 9 січ. 2019 р., 11:11 Angeli László користувач langeli@matracomp.hu <mailto:langeli@matracomp.hu> пише:
A small business that is not able to make out a single 1400 EUR is not a small busines but a joke. IMHO
Regards:
L. Angeli
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> On Behalf Of Sebastian Wiesinger Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:22 PM To: members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem
* Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com <mailto:khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com>> [2019-01-08 15:26]: > I see that you didn't read my letter at all. My a very small business > as you said give me €1k per month. I've collected €1050 to pay my > quarterly payment for 3 LIR's. If the RIPE will compels me to pay > annual payments for these 3
Hi Serhii,
why do you have 3 LIRs when you're only a small business?
Regards
Sebastian
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-- Kind regards, Sergey Chumak
Hi,
On 13 Jan 2019, at 19:44, Sergey Chumak <cs@merezha.net> wrote:
You are mistaken if you consider the statistics of the disgruntled LIRs by the number of people who spoke here. Their much more. Most lirs from Ukraine and Russia do not agree with the innovation. It would be enough to make a vote, where each lir could express its opinion, and you would see how many people would like to leave the current payment plan quarterly.
I rarely post here, but this is not limited to ex-USSR. I’m a LIR in France, I know several other french LIRs, we are (very) small companies (usually not a full time activity and no profit made, just hobbyists) and this change is affecting us as well. So as long as possible we’ll use the possibility, as the RIPE proposed, to split payments for companies with limited cash flow but it will definitely become a problem. Maybe grouping small entities into big, associative LIRs, would be a viable solution (our former sponsoring LIRs don’t want to sponsor small companies anymore). Regards, Michel
Hi Michel,
Maybe grouping small entities into big, associative LIRs, would be a viable solution (our former sponsoring LIRs don’t want to sponsor small companies anymore).
We offer a "parking" service for IP addresses to LIRs at a fixed rate of 300 EUR/year (with no charge for the current year) so for small companies it would be a good option. The main disadvantage is that RIPE NCC doesn't allow for an allocation to be updated in order to reflect the accurate user details and also they do not allow an assignment equal to the allocation. This would mean that we have to split the allocation in 2 assignments which works for blocks larger than /24. Also if you move the IPs to a different LIR, you would still have to pay the full fee for this year so it's an option to save on future costs. If, due to the current situation we'll have a significant number of companies that will decide to move IPs under our LIR, we'll try to push a policy to allow updates on an allocation like it was possible some years ago. Yours, Ciprian Nica IP Broker
Seriously? You are seriously advertising your services in the members-discuss mailing list? Please get that out of here. Regards, Cynthia Revström On 2019-01-14 13:24, office@ip-broker.uk wrote:
Hi Michel,
Maybe grouping small entities into big, associative LIRs, would be a viable solution (our former sponsoring LIRs don’t want to sponsor small companies anymore).
We offer a "parking" service for IP addresses to LIRs at a fixed rate of 300 EUR/year (with no charge for the current year) so for small companies it would be a good option. The main disadvantage is that RIPE NCC doesn't allow for an allocation to be updated in order to reflect the accurate user details and also they do not allow an assignment equal to the allocation. This would mean that we have to split the allocation in 2 assignments which works for blocks larger than /24.
Also if you move the IPs to a different LIR, you would still have to pay the full fee for this year so it's an option to save on future costs. If, due to the current situation we'll have a significant number of companies that will decide to move IPs under our LIR, we'll try to push a policy to allow updates on an allocation like it was possible some years ago.
Yours, Ciprian Nica IP Broker
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On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 09:58, Michel Luczak (SHRD) <ml@shrd.fr> wrote:
I rarely post here, but this is not limited to ex-USSR. I’m a LIR in France, I know several other french LIRs, we are (very) small companies (usually not a full time activity and no profit made, just hobbyists) and this change is affecting us as well. So as long as possible we’ll use the possibility, as the RIPE proposed, to split payments for companies with limited cash flow but it will definitely become a problem.
I'm going to speak up here as well just to illustrate that this isn't necessarily an issue of location and I would hate for people to be forming an opinion that they don't care because it only affects "the others". I represent a number of smaller LIRs in the UK where it simply would not be practical to pay a year's RIPE fees up front. Let's put the amount in perspective. When you consider that your up-front cost to the NCC to set up a LIR is probably greater than what you might pay a transit provider, monthly in arrears, for a whole year to actually deliver the service for those addresses, the NCC cost is a huge component of the cost of starting up an ISP - in any country, although admittedly moreso in some than others. And it's remains a huge proportion of the cost base for many ISP businesses which now operate in an effectively commodity market on thin margins. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the price (a discussion that is not relevant to this thread), just that the inversion of payment terms is in opposition to the way (most of) the rest of the real world of business operates. Let's not forget also that RIPE NCC is a giant corporation with none of the cash flow issues or immense uncertainty that smaller LIRs may face. It is no hardship to them to have the payments arrive over time - especially when you consider that they are currently obtaining cash money in advance to cover expenses that will not be incurred until 11 months later. What a privileged position to be in that nobody questions this! As far as the motivation for this change, I find that also faintly ludicrous. Of course a higher number of LIRs means a higher cost in bookkeeping and collections! But it also means a higher revenue. It's called a marginal cost. The cost per LIR does not go up. All this change serves is to further bolster the cashflow and interest earnings of an organisation that certainly needs neither (evidence: NCC budget) and create an unnecessary and potentially crippling barrier for both new LIRs and for those that wish to remain small. I see there will be opportunity for payment plans. We have received no information on this despite all my LIRs currently being on quarterly payment. Will it be means-tested? I certainly hope not, that defeats the object of reducing costs. Will it just be what is currently available in the form of quarterly payments? If so what is the point of this change? Just to hide away so you only have access to it if you ask for it? and thus still have the perceived barrier to new entrants? Will it be available for ever or only for this year? Let's have a clear statement from the NCC as to what problem they are actually trying to solve with this change and why they feel it fair to put the squeeze on *any* above-zero percentage of their members when they simply don't have a cashflow problem to solve. As mentioned above, reduction of bookkeeping costs is bunk and not acceptable. Regards David
How do *you* know then? Please explain where you are getting your data. And, why don't you submit a proposal to change the billing schedule to quarterly then? Then we might vote on it. -- Regards, Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V. Please quote relevant replies.
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Sergey Chumak Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 7:44 PM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem
You are mistaken if you consider the statistics of the disgruntled LIRs by the number of people who spoke here. Their much more. Most lirs from Ukraine and Russia do not agree with the innovation. It would be enough to make a vote, where each lir could express its opinion, and you would see how many people would like to leave the current payment plan quarterly.
„that will complicate the life of a large part of the community”
It is just a joke again I wouldn't call 10+ people the big part of the community.
*From:* Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 9, 2019 12:21 PM *To:* Angeli László <langeli@matracomp.hu> *Cc:* members-discuss@ripe.net *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem
Hi Angeli,
If it's a joke for you so I'm glad that I made your smile. But for me it isn't a reason for laughing. I started work with RIPE's current terms and conditions and an important factor for me was the fact that there was an opportunity to pay on a quarterly basis. Based on this, I compiled my business plan. And the innovations that are planned to introduce will hit me out a lot. As far as I know, the annual payments were and are available to everyone. If it's convenient for you to pay annually, then you have the right to choose this form of payment. Why are you trying to impose a payment method that is convenient for you and far from acceptable to me and lots of LIR's like me. Does it your tolerance? In my turn, I do not convince anyone to switch to a quarterly payment. I'm just trying to defend my rights to a convenient payment method for me. As a member of the community, I have the rights to do so. Don't you think so? Do democracy and openness are just empty words for you and all must silently accept changes that will complicate the life of a large part of the community?
--
Kind regards,
Serhii Khomenko
ср, 9 січ. 2019 р., 11:11 Angeli László користувач langeli@matracomp.hu <mailto:langeli@matracomp.hu> пише:
A small business that is not able to make out a single 1400 EUR is not a small busines but a joke. IMHO
Regards:
L. Angeli
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> On Behalf Of Sebastian Wiesinger Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:22 PM To: members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme problem
* Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com <mailto:khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com>> [2019-01-08 15:26]: > I see that you didn't read my letter at all. My a very small business > as you said give me €1k per month. I've collected €1050 to pay my > quarterly payment for 3 LIR's. If the RIPE will compels me to
On 10.01.19 02:11, Angeli László wrote: pay
> annual payments for these 3
Hi Serhii,
why do you have 3 LIRs when you're only a small business?
Regards
Sebastian
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--
Kind regards, Sergey Chumak
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friend, how much is the invoice for this year whether it is possible for delivery, for 1 year and if you have the most paid offer for many years with receiving a free year Sent from my iPhone
On 8 Jan 2019, at 12:22, Terrence Koeman <terrence@darkness-reigns.com> wrote:
With all the confusion around billing I've seen on this list, I understand RIPE discontinuing their service of allowing quarterly payments.
You can get a loan to bridge the first year and save up for subsequent years, essentially replacing RIPE's free service by a commercial one with an interest for the first year and by saving up yourself for the following years.
The extra costs of this change are only the interest for such a business loan (which depends on the inflation of the currency your business uses, but for EUR currently around 3-6% afaik). Even if it were 10% interest on the €1k4 fee it'd be €140 spread out over a year (=€12/month), that should not be a burden even for a very small business.
-- Regards, Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.
Please quote relevant replies.
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Marketing KTECHNOLOGY Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 9:23 AM To: Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme
Hi, the same problem here.
I understand the problem for managing so many invoices but it became hard for little busunesses.
Il giorno mar 8 gen 2019, 07:44 Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com <mailto:khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> > ha scritto:
Dear RIPC NCC, I have received a notification that billing scheme would be changed from quarterly to annually. But it will be impossible for me to pay such big amount of money in one time. I ask you not to change the payment scheme. As I'm a private entrepreneur, it will be impossible to pay such amount in one payment.
Hope for your understanding.
-- Kind regards, Serhii Khomenko
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I’m afraid that with this change, the whole billing process will even get more complex and frustrating due to the large amount of smaller LIRs with limited budget. Looking into the crystal ball, two possible things could happen: 1) a vast amount of smaller LIRs and multi-LIRs will have to quit because they simply can’t afford to pay all at once 2) as previously announced, special payment agreements will be established for LIRs with cash limitations (which means not much will change, except increased billing complexity). Considering this, I haven’t seen any good reason for this change yet.
Am 08.01.2019 um 13:57 schrieb Isp-Broadcast <qendrim.kryeziu@isp-broadcast.net>:
friend,
how much is the invoice for this year whether it is possible for delivery, for 1 year and if you have the most paid offer for many years with receiving a free year
Sent from my iPhone
On 8 Jan 2019, at 12:22, Terrence Koeman <terrence@darkness-reigns.com> wrote:
With all the confusion around billing I've seen on this list, I understand RIPE discontinuing their service of allowing quarterly payments.
You can get a loan to bridge the first year and save up for subsequent years, essentially replacing RIPE's free service by a commercial one with an interest for the first year and by saving up yourself for the following years.
The extra costs of this change are only the interest for such a business loan (which depends on the inflation of the currency your business uses, but for EUR currently around 3-6% afaik). Even if it were 10% interest on the €1k4 fee it'd be €140 spread out over a year (=€12/month), that should not be a burden even for a very small business.
-- Regards, Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.
Please quote relevant replies.
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Marketing KTECHNOLOGY Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 9:23 AM To: Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme
Hi, the same problem here.
I understand the problem for managing so many invoices but it became hard for little busunesses.
Il giorno mar 8 gen 2019, 07:44 Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com <mailto:khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> > ha scritto:
Dear RIPC NCC, I have received a notification that billing scheme would be changed from quarterly to annually. But it will be impossible for me to pay such big amount of money in one time. I ask you not to change the payment scheme. As I'm a private entrepreneur, it will be impossible to pay such amount in one payment.
Hope for your understanding.
-- Kind regards, Serhii Khomenko
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If I understand you correctly, you're asking what the current fee is, and whether there's a discount (a "free year") if you pay multiple years in advance? I don't think there's such a discount, as the member fees of future years haven't been determined yet. But, you can always ask RIPE :) As for the fees in 2019, see: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2018/supporting-do... (or https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-704 it seems to be the same) https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/ripe-ncc-billing-pro... -- Regards, Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V. Please quote relevant replies.
-----Original Message----- From: Isp-Broadcast <qendrim.kryeziu@isp-broadcast.net> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 1:57 PM To: Terrence Koeman <terrence@darkness-reigns.com> Cc: Marketing KTECHNOLOGY <marketing@ktechnology.it>; Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com>; members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme
friend,
how much is the invoice for this year whether it is possible for delivery, for 1 year and if you have the most paid offer for many years with receiving a free year
Sent from my iPhone
On 8 Jan 2019, at 12:22, Terrence Koeman <terrence@darkness-reigns.com> wrote:
With all the confusion around billing I've seen on this list, I understand RIPE discontinuing their service of allowing quarterly payments.
You can get a loan to bridge the first year and save up for subsequent years, essentially replacing RIPE's free service by a commercial one with an interest for the first year and by saving up yourself for the following years.
The extra costs of this change are only the interest for such a business loan (which depends on the inflation of the currency your business uses, but for EUR currently around 3-6% afaik). Even if it were 10% interest on the €1k4 fee it'd be €140 spread out over a year (=€12/month), that should not be a burden even for a very small business.
-- Regards, Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.
Please quote relevant replies.
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Marketing KTECHNOLOGY Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 9:23 AM To: Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme
Hi, the same problem here.
I understand the problem for managing so many invoices but it became hard for little busunesses.
Il giorno mar 8 gen 2019, 07:44 Serhii Khomenko <khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com <mailto:khomenko.serhii.m@gmail.com> > ha scritto:
Dear RIPC NCC, I have received a notification that billing scheme would be changed from quarterly to annually. But it will be impossible for me to pay such big amount of money in one time. I ask you not to change the payment scheme. As I'm a private entrepreneur, it will be impossible to pay such amount in one payment.
Hope for your understanding.
-- Kind regards, Serhii Khomenko
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Hi there Why are we able to vote about every single word which is inserted, changed or removed from any random document (document, not policy!), but we can't vote about such a big change which affects a lot of members? In my opinion this change should have been part of the charging scheme 2019 voting. Best regards Patrick On 07.01.19 21:21, Serhii Khomenko wrote:
Dear RIPC NCC, I have received a notification that billing scheme would be changed from quarterly to annually. But it will be impossible for me to pay such big amount of money in one time. I ask you not to change the payment scheme. As I'm a private entrepreneur, it will be impossible to pay such amount in one payment.
Hope for your understanding.
I agree fully withPatrick Op di 8 jan. 2019 om 15:23 schreef Patrick Velder <lists@velder.li>
Hi there
Why are we able to vote about every single word which is inserted, changed or removed from any random document (document, not policy!), but we can't vote about such a big change which affects a lot of members?
In my opinion this change should have been part of the charging scheme 2019 voting.
Best regards Patrick
On 07.01.19 21:21, Serhii Khomenko wrote:
Dear RIPC NCC, I have received a notification that billing scheme would be changed from quarterly to annually. But it will be impossible for me to pay such big amount of money in one time. I ask you not to change the payment scheme. As I'm a private entrepreneur, it will be impossible to pay such amount in one payment.
Hope for your understanding.
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-- Met vriendelijke groet, Matthijs van Seventer +31 88 999 5553 +31 64 230 9934 *matthijs.vanseventer@comsave.com <matthijs.vanseventer@comsave.com>* www.comsave.com <http://www.comsave.nl/>
There is nothing about quarterly payments in the charging scheme. In fact, it's made clear that the fees are an "annual payment", see: https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-704 It seems that in the past, RIPE's "billing procedure" was less strict than its "charging scheme" allowed for. I assume this was a courtesy to members, but this courtesy resulted in a lot of confusion, complaints and extra work for RIPE. All RIPE did now was bring the billing procedure in line with the charging scheme that was voted on. The charging schemes of previous years also specified only "annual payment"; quarterly payments are not in there either. See: (2018) https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-686 (2017) https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-666 (2016) https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-645 (2015) https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-620 etc. RIPE's current billing procedure is completely in line with the current charging scheme, see: https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/ripe-ncc-billing-pro... Apparently, RIPE offers "payment options for members with cash flow limitations", so it seems that RIPE is willing to work with members for which this change is a problem. These members should contact RIPE directly to see what "payment options" are available to them, ideally *before* complaining on this list. -- Regards, Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V. Please quote relevant replies.
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Patrick Velder Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 1:16 PM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Billing scheme
Hi there
Why are we able to vote about every single word which is inserted, changed or removed from any random document (document, not policy!), but we can't vote about such a big change which affects a lot of members?
In my opinion this change should have been part of the charging scheme 2019 voting.
Best regards Patrick
On 07.01.19 21:21, Serhii Khomenko wrote:
Dear RIPC NCC, I have received a notification that billing scheme would be changed from quarterly to annually. But it will be impossible for me to pay such big amount of money in one time. I ask you not to change the payment scheme. As I'm a private entrepreneur, it will be impossible to pay such amount in one payment.
Hope for your understanding.
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In fact, it's made clear that the fees are an "annual payment" No, it's a fee every member pays per year. Show me where it's stated that we have to pay that in just one part. In my employment contract they write XXXXX CHF "per year", but I get it paid out in 12 parts too....
Apparently, RIPE offers "payment options for members with cash flow limitations", so it seems that RIPE is willing to work with members for which this change is a problem. These members should contact RIPE directly to see what "payment options" are available to them
It's a "transition plan" - that means, it's probably just for this year:
For members with only one LIR account, we will design a transition plan for those with cash flow limitations and who therefore have difficulty meeting the payment schedule. We will provide details about this in January 2019. I expect the RIPE NCC to inform its members about their transition plans. ideally *before* complaining on this list. Please show me any complaint from my side? Thanks :-)
Also, the notice period (which included public holidays in many countries) was, in my opinion, ways too short. On 08.01.19 16:49, Terrence Koeman wrote:
There is nothing about quarterly payments in the charging scheme. In fact, it's made clear that the fees are an "annual payment", see: https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-704
It seems that in the past, RIPE's "billing procedure" was less strict than its "charging scheme" allowed for. I assume this was a courtesy to members, but this courtesy resulted in a lot of confusion, complaints and extra work for RIPE.
All RIPE did now was bring the billing procedure in line with the charging scheme that was voted on. The charging schemes of previous years also specified only "annual payment"; quarterly payments are not in there either. See:
(2018) https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-686 (2017) https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-666 (2016) https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-645 (2015) https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-620 etc.
RIPE's current billing procedure is completely in line with the current charging scheme, see: https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/ripe-ncc-billing-pro...
Apparently, RIPE offers "payment options for members with cash flow limitations", so it seems that RIPE is willing to work with members for which this change is a problem. These members should contact RIPE directly to see what "payment options" are available to them, ideally *before* complaining on this list.
In fact, it's made clear that the fees are an "annual payment" No, it's a fee every member pays per year. Show me where it's stated that we have to pay that in just one part.
Right here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/ripe-ncc-billing-pro... That agrees with the charging scheme, which says "[..] for 2019, the annual service fee per LIR account will remain at EUR 1,400". That's fully consistent with the billing procedure. It doesn't say there will be a quarterly fee of EUR 350, the fact that quarterly terms were possible in the past was a courtesy. So, *you* show *me* where it says they can't stop extending this courtesy that was never voted upon.
In my employment contract they write XXXXX CHF "per year", but I get it paid out in 12 parts too....
Then either your employer is free to change your salary to a quarterly or yearly payment whenever they feel like it too, or, what I'm guessing is more likely: Swiss law dictates that the payment of salaries is per month (for tax purposes or whatever) and so it's not necessary to specify it in your contract. Alternatively, some union contract or something similar arranges this and your employment contract incorporates it by reference. Whatever the case may be in Switzerland, in The Netherlands an employment contract will state that it's paid in 12 or 13 terms plus the day of the month it will be paid on (in addition to the yearly amount). Ask the HR department tomorrow if you can be paid per week instead and they'll explain to you where it's written that it has to be paid per month and not otherwise, because it's sure to be written somewhere. This also states quite matter-of-factly "Salaries in Switzerland are paid once a month": https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/salaries/29235700 And, even if it isn't defined anywhere, the RIPE billing procedure is not your Swiss employment contract. So what's your point exactly? You feel RIPE should be bound to whatever law, rule, regulation or convention causes your salary to be paid per month? -.-
Apparently, RIPE offers "payment options for members with cash flow limitations", so it seems that RIPE is willing to work with members for which this change is a problem. These members should contact RIPE directly to see what "payment options" are available to them
It's a "transition plan" - that means, it's probably just for this year:
Yes, obviously the plan is to: a). require all new members to pay yearly, b). require members opening additional LIRs to pay yearly, so that: c). all members pay yearly as soon as possible. Of course existing members can be surprised by the sudden change this year and may not be able to pay yearly immediately, hence a "transition" for them. But, next year they won't be surprised and they have a whole year to save & plan for the yearly payment.
For members with only one LIR account, we will design a transition plan for those with cash flow limitations and who therefore have difficulty meeting the payment schedule. We will provide details about this in January 2019. I expect the RIPE NCC to inform its members about their transition plans.
Well, then you're in luck, because they will inform their members in
January 2019.
It seems to me that to come to a reasonable transition policy they need insight into what problems members will have, and they're getting this insight now.
ideally *before* complaining on this list. Please show me any complaint from my side? Thanks :-)
Well, are you a "member with cash flow limitations"? Because my full sentence addressed this only to "these" members (as a group), of which a few had already complained on this list. Not to you personally, as I had no way of knowing whether you belonged to this group or not. But besides that: complaint noun com·plaint | \kəm-ˈplānt \ 1 : expression of grief, pain, or dissatisfaction
Why are we able to vote about every single word which is inserted, changed or removed from any random document (document, not policy!), but we can't vote about such a big change which affects a lot of members?
In my opinion this change should have been part of the charging scheme 2019 voting.
Seems like you're complaining about something to me. Or rather two things ^-^
Also, the notice period (which included public holidays in many countries) was, in my opinion, ways too short.
If only there were some period for those that need it... to transition to yearly payments... Oh, right! A transition period of at least a year. Point me to the problem, thanks :-) -- Regards, Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V. Please quote relevant replies.
There is nothing about quarterly payments in the charging scheme. In fact, it's made clear that the fees are an "annual payment", see: https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-704
It seems that in the past, RIPE's "billing procedure" was less strict
On 08.01.19 16:49, Terrence Koeman wrote: than its "charging scheme" allowed for. I assume this was a courtesy to members, but this courtesy resulted in a lot of confusion, complaints and extra work for RIPE.
All RIPE did now was bring the billing procedure in line with the
charging scheme that was voted on. The charging schemes of previous years also specified only "annual payment"; quarterly payments are not in there either. See:
(2018) https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-686 (2017) https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-666 (2016) https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-645 (2015) https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-620 etc.
RIPE's current billing procedure is completely in line with the current
charging scheme, see: https://www.ripe.net/participate/member- support/payment/ripe-ncc-billing-procedure-2019
Apparently, RIPE offers "payment options for members with cash flow
limitations", so it seems that RIPE is willing to work with members for which this change is a problem. These members should contact RIPE directly to see what "payment options" are available to them, ideally *before* complaining on this list.
Thanks for your detailed mail.
Right here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/ripe-ncc-billing-pro...
If you use the (almost) same URL for 2018, you will see that there are quarterly payments: https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/billing-procedure-an...
Members can request to receive their invoices for each LIR account they hold on a yearly, half-yearly or quarterly schedule by sending a request to the RIPE NCC Billing Department
And, even if it isn't defined anywhere, the RIPE billing procedure is not your Swiss employment contract. So what's your point exactly? The RIPE NCC does not provide monthly contracts. Therefore they specify
Well, are you a "member with cash flow limitations"? Because my full sentence addressed this only to "these" members (as a group), of which a few had already complained on this list. Not to you personally, as I had no way of knowing whether you belonged to this group or not. You directed your mail to me. And yes, I'm a "member with cash flow
Seems like you're complaining about something to me. Or rather two things ^-^ complaint = "this is shit"
I never said that RIPE is doing something illegal, I just asked why we need to vote for evers sh***y word in some documents, but can't vote about changes which affect a lot of members. And I'm not alone with this question as you see on this and other lists. the cost for the shortest possible period of membership, which is one year. Therefore they write annual costs. That does not automagically exclude quarterly payments! That's the point I'd like to show. limitations" if that matters. personal opinion = "In my opinion....." question = "Why ..... ?" On 08.01.19 19:49, Terrence Koeman wrote:
In fact, it's made clear that the fees are an "annual payment" No, it's a fee every member pays per year. Show me where it's stated that we have to pay that in just one part. Right here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/ripe-ncc-billing-pro...
That agrees with the charging scheme, which says "[..] for 2019, the annual service fee per LIR account will remain at EUR 1,400". That's fully consistent with the billing procedure.
It doesn't say there will be a quarterly fee of EUR 350, the fact that quarterly terms were possible in the past was a courtesy. So, *you* show *me* where it says they can't stop extending this courtesy that was never voted upon.
In my employment contract they write XXXXX CHF "per year", but I get it paid out in 12 parts too.... Then either your employer is free to change your salary to a quarterly or yearly payment whenever they feel like it too, or, what I'm guessing is more likely: Swiss law dictates that the payment of salaries is per month (for tax purposes or whatever) and so it's not necessary to specify it in your contract. Alternatively, some union contract or something similar arranges this and your employment contract incorporates it by reference.
Whatever the case may be in Switzerland, in The Netherlands an employment contract will state that it's paid in 12 or 13 terms plus the day of the month it will be paid on (in addition to the yearly amount).
Ask the HR department tomorrow if you can be paid per week instead and they'll explain to you where it's written that it has to be paid per month and not otherwise, because it's sure to be written somewhere. This also states quite matter-of-factly "Salaries in Switzerland are paid once a month": https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/salaries/29235700
And, even if it isn't defined anywhere, the RIPE billing procedure is not your Swiss employment contract. So what's your point exactly? You feel RIPE should be bound to whatever law, rule, regulation or convention causes your salary to be paid per month? -.-
Apparently, RIPE offers "payment options for members with cash flow limitations", so it seems that RIPE is willing to work with members for which this change is a problem. These members should contact RIPE directly to see what "payment options" are available to them
It's a "transition plan" - that means, it's probably just for this year: Yes, obviously the plan is to:
a). require all new members to pay yearly, b). require members opening additional LIRs to pay yearly, so that: c). all members pay yearly as soon as possible.
Of course existing members can be surprised by the sudden change this year and may not be able to pay yearly immediately, hence a "transition" for them. But, next year they won't be surprised and they have a whole year to save & plan for the yearly payment.
For members with only one LIR account, we will design a transition plan for those with cash flow limitations and who therefore have difficulty meeting the payment schedule. We will provide details about this in January 2019. I expect the RIPE NCC to inform its members about their transition plans. Well, then you're in luck, because they will inform their members in January 2019. It seems to me that to come to a reasonable transition policy they need insight into what problems members will have, and they're getting this insight now.
ideally *before* complaining on this list. Please show me any complaint from my side? Thanks :-) Well, are you a "member with cash flow limitations"? Because my full sentence addressed this only to "these" members (as a group), of which a few had already complained on this list. Not to you personally, as I had no way of knowing whether you belonged to this group or not.
But besides that:
complaint noun com·plaint | \kəm-ˈplānt \ 1 : expression of grief, pain, or dissatisfaction
Why are we able to vote about every single word which is inserted, changed or removed from any random document (document, not policy!), but we can't vote about such a big change which affects a lot of members?
In my opinion this change should have been part of the charging scheme 2019 voting. Seems like you're complaining about something to me. Or rather two things ^-^
Also, the notice period (which included public holidays in many countries) was, in my opinion, ways too short. If only there were some period for those that need it... to transition to yearly payments... Oh, right! A transition period of at least a year. Point me to the problem, thanks :-)
Thanks for your detailed mail.
Right here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/member- support/payment/ripe-ncc-billing-procedure-2019
If you use the (almost) same URL for 2018, you will see that there are quarterly payments:
https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/billing- procedure-and-fee-schedule-2018
Members can request to receive their invoices for each LIR account they hold on a yearly, half-yearly or quarterly schedule by sending a request to the RIPE NCC Billing Department
Yes, I'm aware they changed it and stopped extending the courtesy of allowing other than yearly payments. Previously members could send a request for this, and now they can't. The billing schedule allows this.
I never said that RIPE is doing something illegal, I just asked why we need to vote for evers sh***y word in some documents, but can't vote about changes which affect a lot of members. And I'm not alone with this question as you see on this and other lists.
How do we get to vote on anything? We "get" to vote on things that are proposed first. Apparently, nobody ever saw the need to put forward a proposal to change the billing schedule to explicitly include quarterly payments, and so the decision to implement billing was left to RIPE. My guess is that everyone knows that submitting such a proposal to change the billing schedule wouldn't pass a vote (or wouldn't get the required support to be put to a vote, I'm not sure how this works at RIPE) and so nobody bothers. But, I can ask you: You could submit a proposal to make this change right now, why aren't you?
And, even if it isn't defined anywhere, the RIPE billing procedure is not your Swiss employment contract. So what's your point exactly? The RIPE NCC does not provide monthly contracts. Therefore they specify the cost for the shortest possible period of membership, which is one year. Therefore they write annual costs. That does not automagically exclude quarterly payments! That's the point I'd like to show.
Well, are you a "member with cash flow limitations"? Because my full sentence addressed this only to "these" members (as a group), of which a few had already complained on this list. Not to you personally, as I had no way of knowing whether you belonged to this group or not. You directed your mail to me. And yes, I'm a "member with cash flow limitations" if that matters.
Well, seeing as I sent it to the list as well, I think it's generally understood that I'm directing my email just as much to the list as to you. Otherwise, I'd have sent the email to you only.
Seems like you're complaining about something to me. Or rather two things ^-^ complaint = "this is shit" personal opinion = "In my opinion....." question = "Why ..... ?"
You are playing semantics. This is not what makes something a complaint or not. What you are terming "complaint" is actually a statement. "This is shit" (statement of opinion) "In my opinion this is shit" (also statement of opinion) "Why is this shit?" (question conveying opinion) These are just different ways of expressing the exact same complaint. -- Regards, Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V. Please quote relevant replies.
In fact, it's made clear that the fees are an "annual payment" No, it's a fee every member pays per year. Show me where it's stated that we have to pay that in just one part. Right here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/member- support/payment/ripe-ncc-billing-procedure-2019
That agrees with the charging scheme, which says "[..] for 2019, the annual service fee per LIR account will remain at EUR 1,400". That's fully consistent with the billing procedure.
It doesn't say there will be a quarterly fee of EUR 350, the fact that quarterly terms were possible in the past was a courtesy. So, *you* show *me* where it says they can't stop extending this courtesy that was never voted upon.
In my employment contract they write XXXXX CHF "per year", but I get it paid out in 12 parts too.... Then either your employer is free to change your salary to a quarterly or yearly payment whenever they feel like it too, or, what I'm guessing is more likely: Swiss law dictates that the payment of salaries is per month (for tax purposes or whatever) and so it's not necessary to specify it in your contract. Alternatively, some union contract or something similar arranges this and your employment contract incorporates it by reference.
Whatever the case may be in Switzerland, in The Netherlands an employment contract will state that it's paid in 12 or 13 terms plus the day of the month it will be paid on (in addition to the yearly amount).
Ask the HR department tomorrow if you can be paid per week instead and
On 08.01.19 19:49, Terrence Koeman wrote: they'll explain to you where it's written that it has to be paid per month and not otherwise, because it's sure to be written somewhere. This also states quite matter-of-factly "Salaries in Switzerland are paid once a month": https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/salaries/29235700
And, even if it isn't defined anywhere, the RIPE billing procedure is
not your Swiss employment contract. So what's your point exactly? You feel RIPE should be bound to whatever law, rule, regulation or convention causes your salary to be paid per month? -.-
Apparently, RIPE offers "payment options for members with cash flow limitations", so it seems that RIPE is willing to work with members
which this change is a problem. These members should contact RIPE
to see what "payment options" are available to them
It's a "transition plan" - that means, it's probably just for this year: Yes, obviously the plan is to:
a). require all new members to pay yearly, b). require members opening additional LIRs to pay yearly, so that: c). all members pay yearly as soon as possible.
Of course existing members can be surprised by the sudden change this year and may not be able to pay yearly immediately, hence a "transition" for them. But, next year they won't be surprised and they have a whole year to save & plan for the yearly payment.
For members with only one LIR account, we will design a transition
for those with cash flow limitations and who therefore have difficulty meeting the payment schedule. We will provide details about this in January 2019. I expect the RIPE NCC to inform its members about their transition
Well, then you're in luck, because they will inform their members in
January 2019. It seems to me that to come to a reasonable transition policy they need insight into what problems members will have, and they're getting
for directly plan plans. this insight now.
ideally *before* complaining on this list. Please show me any complaint from my side? Thanks :-) Well, are you a "member with cash flow limitations"? Because my full
sentence addressed this only to "these" members (as a group), of which a few had already complained on this list. Not to you personally, as I had no way of knowing whether you belonged to this group or not.
But besides that:
complaint noun com·plaint | \kəm-ˈplānt \ 1 : expression of grief, pain, or dissatisfaction
Why are we able to vote about every single word which is inserted, changed or removed from any random document (document, not policy!),
we can't vote about such a big change which affects a lot of members?
In my opinion this change should have been part of the charging scheme 2019 voting. Seems like you're complaining about something to me. Or rather two
but things ^-^
Also, the notice period (which included public holidays in many countries) was, in my opinion, ways too short. If only there were some period for those that need it... to transition
to yearly payments... Oh, right! A transition period of at least a year. Point me to the problem, thanks :-)
Terrence Koeman пишет 08.01.2019 21:49: Hi,
In fact, it's made clear that the fees are an "annual payment" No, it's a fee every member pays per year. Show me where it's stated that we have to pay that in just one part. Right here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/ripe-ncc-billing-pro...
That agrees with the charging scheme, which says "[..] for 2019, the annual service fee per LIR account will remain at EUR 1,400". That's fully consistent with the billing procedure.
It doesn't say there will be a quarterly fee of EUR 350, the fact that quarterly terms were possible in the past was a courtesy. So, *you* show *me* where it says they can't stop extending this courtesy that was never voted upon. I don't think that words like 'gift' and 'courtesy' are really siutable here. As a memeber i pay on time for services i get and do not need any indulgencies at all. I prefer quarterly payments, why not? They are more convenient to me. You prefer yearly, - fine, i whish you good luck and much success. But, how do my quarterly payments affect your yearly, I can't understand. Why you are against them?
And some more. Why the Executive Board memebers or the RIPE NCC staff still keep silence inspite of this many-days discussion? If some of them could explain the reason of chanding the billing scheme i'd be grateful. Perhaps the reason is really very serious. Thank you.
In my employment contract they write XXXXX CHF "per year", but I get it paid out in 12 parts too.... Then either your employer is free to change your salary to a quarterly or yearly payment whenever they feel like it too, or, what I'm guessing is more likely: Swiss law dictates that the payment of salaries is per month (for tax purposes or whatever) and so it's not necessary to specify it in your contract. Alternatively, some union contract or something similar arranges this and your employment contract incorporates it by reference.
Whatever the case may be in Switzerland, in The Netherlands an employment contract will state that it's paid in 12 or 13 terms plus the day of the month it will be paid on (in addition to the yearly amount).
Ask the HR department tomorrow if you can be paid per week instead and they'll explain to you where it's written that it has to be paid per month and not otherwise, because it's sure to be written somewhere. This also states quite matter-of-factly "Salaries in Switzerland are paid once a month": https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/salaries/29235700
And, even if it isn't defined anywhere, the RIPE billing procedure is not your Swiss employment contract. So what's your point exactly? You feel RIPE should be bound to whatever law, rule, regulation or convention causes your salary to be paid per month? -.-
Apparently, RIPE offers "payment options for members with cash flow limitations", so it seems that RIPE is willing to work with members for which this change is a problem. These members should contact RIPE directly to see what "payment options" are available to them
It's a "transition plan" - that means, it's probably just for this year: Yes, obviously the plan is to:
a). require all new members to pay yearly, b). require members opening additional LIRs to pay yearly, so that: c). all members pay yearly as soon as possible.
Of course existing members can be surprised by the sudden change this year and may not be able to pay yearly immediately, hence a "transition" for them. But, next year they won't be surprised and they have a whole year to save & plan for the yearly payment.
For members with only one LIR account, we will design a transition plan for those with cash flow limitations and who therefore have difficulty meeting the payment schedule. We will provide details about this in January 2019. I expect the RIPE NCC to inform its members about their transition plans. Well, then you're in luck, because they will inform their members in January 2019. It seems to me that to come to a reasonable transition policy they need insight into what problems members will have, and they're getting this insight now.
ideally *before* complaining on this list. Please show me any complaint from my side? Thanks :-) Well, are you a "member with cash flow limitations"? Because my full sentence addressed this only to "these" members (as a group), of which a few had already complained on this list. Not to you personally, as I had no way of knowing whether you belonged to this group or not.
But besides that:
complaint noun com·plaint | \kəm-ˈplānt \ 1 : expression of grief, pain, or dissatisfaction
Why are we able to vote about every single word which is inserted, changed or removed from any random document (document, not policy!), but we can't vote about such a big change which affects a lot of members?
In my opinion this change should have been part of the charging scheme 2019 voting. Seems like you're complaining about something to me. Or rather two things ^-^
Also, the notice period (which included public holidays in many countries) was, in my opinion, ways too short. If only there were some period for those that need it... to transition to yearly payments... Oh, right! A transition period of at least a year. Point me to the problem, thanks :-)
-- With respect, *Larisa Yurkina* RosNIIROS Internet Number Resources Group / Chief Manager l.yurkina@ripn.net <mailto:l.yurkina@ripn.net> / www.ripn.net <http://www.ripn.net> Т.: +7 495 737-0604
participants (27)
-
Aleksey Bulgakov -
Alexander Buzaev -
Angeli László -
Cynthia Revström -
David Croft -
Dominic Schallert -
Floris Bos -
Isp-Broadcast -
Jens Hoffmann -
Juri -
Larisa Yurkina -
Marcel Geis -
Markel Stefo -
Marketing KTECHNOLOGY -
Martin Hein -
Matthijs van Seventer -
Michel Luczak (SHRD) -
office＠ip-broker.uk -
Patrick Velder -
Piet Honkoop -
Sebastian Wiesinger -
Sergey Chumak -
Serhii Khomenko -
Terrence Koeman -
Trafi Badal, Xavier -
Богомолов Алексей Влади мирович -
Сергей Векли -
Фоминых Николай