No, Im already seen this article. Its same what are was been showed on GM. Its doesnt have detalization. On 26.05.2024 10:30, Sebastien Brossier wrote:

Hi,

On 26/05/2024 10:18, ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED wrote:

...

1) Was been noticed about RIPE currently hold 46 racks, are possible to know information about that racks? What are servers used? How much power its consume and etc...

It doesn't answer entirely your question, but you'll find some information here:

https://labs.ripe.net/author/felipe_victolla_silveira/reducing-the-ripe-nccs...

Half of the racks are for Atlas/RIS archives, and it is being moved to cloud storage, for a fraction of the cost.

Best regards, Sebastien Brossier

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+1 I fully support this! — Kind Regards Sebastian Becker Am 26.05.2024 um 19:48 schrieb Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>:  No, Im already seen this article. Its same what are was been showed on GM. Its doesnt have detalization. i, for one, do not want detail. if i wanted to micro-manage the ncc, i would fill out a job application. they have done an amazing job for decades, and i trust them to keep doing so. the extent of the ncc's transparency is often more than i have time read. randy _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://deu01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7CSebastian-Becker%40telekom.de%7C29b8167d4bda4800f24e08dc7dabff4b%7Cbde4dffc4b604cf68b04a5eeb25f5c4f%7C0%7C0%7C638523424870394705%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=QiqTmQMe1gGDMFO8sS4qGBgZ%2BnTXMe4Iudr94rCp3IU%3D&reserved=0 Unsubscribe: https://deu01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fsebastian-becker%2540telekom.de&data=05%7C02%7CSebastian-Becker%40telekom.de%7C29b8167d4bda4800f24e08dc7dabff4b%7Cbde4dffc4b604cf68b04a5eeb25f5c4f%7C0%7C0%7C638523424870403357%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JmPscjcqs%2BDekUcsd4BAMoqL1B5TcrEZMbTvk%2BA0Ztw%3D&reserved=0

Indeed! In response to requests for budget control, RIPE NCC has acted. And acted fast and, I think, in a sensible way. I do neither want to micro-manage (and don’t want us members, in general, to do that, to not put more load on the team), nor see an army of expensive consultants run a 6-month project to throw everything in “THE" cloud. Cheers Michel LANNERS CIO at LU-CIX Management G.I.E. -- <https://www.luxchat.lu/> Mail: michel.lanners@lu-cix.lu <mailto:michel.lanners@lu-cix.lu> Luxchat: @3eb2pdflrq57:01.lu-cix.luxchat.lu Phone: (+352) 28 99 29 92-81 LU-CIX Management G.I.E. 202, Z.A.E. Wolser F L-3290 Bettembourg lu-cix.lu <https://www.lu-cix.lu/> luxchat.lu <https://www.luxchat.lu/> luxembourg-internet-days.com <https://luxembourg-internet-days.com/> lunog.lu <https://www.lunog.lu/>

On 26 May 2024, at 19:46, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:

...

No, Im already seen this article. Its same what are was been showed on GM. Its doesnt have detalization.

i, for one, do not want detail. if i wanted to micro-manage the ncc, i would fill out a job application. they have done an amazing job for decades, and i trust them to keep doing so. the extent of the ncc's transparency is often more than i have time read.

randy

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+1 De : members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> De la part de Michele Neylon - Blacknight via members-discuss Envoyé : lundi 27 mai 2024 11:38 À : Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>; ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED <admin@roskomnadzor.io> Cc : members-discuss@ripe.net Objet : Re: [members-discuss] Questions to RIPE NCC in light of last GM CAUTION : This email originated outside the company. Do not click on any links or open attachments unless you are expecting them from the sender. ATTENTION : Cet e-mail provient de l'extérieur de l'entreprise. Ne cliquez pas sur les liens ou n'ouvrez pas les pièces jointes à moins de connaitre l'expéditeur. +1 -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours. From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> on behalf of Randy Bush <randy@psg.com<mailto:randy@psg.com>> Date: Sunday, 26 May 2024 at 18:47 To: ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED <admin@roskomnadzor.io<mailto:admin@roskomnadzor.io>> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> <members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Questions to RIPE NCC in light of last GM [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources.

No, Im already seen this article. Its same what are was been showed on GM. Its doesnt have detalization.

i, for one, do not want detail. if i wanted to micro-manage the ncc, i would fill out a job application. they have done an amazing job for decades, and i trust them to keep doing so. the extent of the ncc's transparency is often more than i have time read. randy _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/michele%40blacknight.... ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you.

Pardon, am I reading it right? People here are praising lack of transparency and control as something good? Just because they don’t want to read reports? It’s insane.

On 27 May 2024, at 12:51, Eirik Stangeland via members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net> wrote:

+1

Best regards from

Eirik Refve Stangeland Senior network consultant Netpower IT Solutions AS

-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Randy Bush Sent: søndag 26. mai 2024 19:46 To: ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED <admin@roskomnadzor.io> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Questions to RIPE NCC in light of last GM

...

No, Im already seen this article. Its same what are was been showed on GM. Its doesnt have detalization.

i, for one, do not want detail. if i wanted to micro-manage the ncc, i would fill out a job application. they have done an amazing job for decades, and i trust them to keep doing so. the extent of the ncc's transparency is often more than i have time read.

randy

_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ripe%40netpower.no _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/mihail%40fedorov.net

Moin, So, first of all; +1 to Randy's point. Second:

Its okay :) Some members doesnt want transperancy. Im happy about they leave comments and show their position.

What I presume these +1-ing members (like me) are mildly frustrated with is a set of specific members--without pointing fingers--being relatively avid in issuing 'transparency' asks, while it becomes increasingly difficult to ascertain whether the objective here is transparency, or whether transparency becomes a vehicle to make requests targeted at drowning the organization in repetitive unnecessary tasks and preventing consensus seem reasonable. And for all other points, I refer to my comment from the last meeting: We couldn't agree on something when the task would be 'Every member gets a free ball of ice cream'; I mean... Vanilla, Strawberry, Chocolate, without Milk... decisions to be made! Heck, for what it's worth, I doubt that _two_ LIRs could resolve this question (or... one, if the one offered a free ball of ice cream would be me). The level of detail ask for, e.g., the (rapidly decreasing!) rack use in AMS... I am certain there would be enough questions phrased as comments alone on that to double the LIR fee next year (to pay for the increased operating cost of the mailinglist...) So, please... let the RIPE NCC do its job. If you want to get more intricately involved in the daily operations of systems, I suggest to go here: https://www.ripe.net/about-us/staff/careers-at-the-ripe-ncc/ With best regards, Tobias P.S.:

Waiting next...

Oh, is there a queue? Do me, do me! de.wybt! If all the cool kids^W LIRs get this, I want in, too! -- Dr.-Ing. Tobias Fiebig T +31 616 80 98 99 M tobias@fiebig.nl

+1 and a scoop of stracciatella please regards Stefan

Am 27.05.2024 um 13:33 schrieb Tobias Fiebig via members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net>:

Moin,

So, first of all; +1 to Randy's point.

Second:

...

Its okay :) Some members doesnt want transperancy. Im happy about they leave comments and show their position.

What I presume these +1-ing members (like me) are mildly frustrated with is a set of specific members--without pointing fingers--being relatively avid in issuing 'transparency' asks, while it becomes increasingly difficult to ascertain whether the objective here is transparency, or whether transparency becomes a vehicle to make requests targeted at drowning the organization in repetitive unnecessary tasks and preventing consensus seem reasonable.

And for all other points, I refer to my comment from the last meeting:

We couldn't agree on something when the task would be 'Every member gets a free ball of ice cream'; I mean... Vanilla, Strawberry, Chocolate, without Milk... decisions to be made! Heck, for what it's worth, I doubt that _two_ LIRs could resolve this question (or... one, if the one offered a free ball of ice cream would be me).

The level of detail ask for, e.g., the (rapidly decreasing!) rack use in AMS... I am certain there would be enough questions phrased as comments alone on that to double the LIR fee next year (to pay for the increased operating cost of the mailinglist...)

So, please... let the RIPE NCC do its job. If you want to get more intricately involved in the daily operations of systems, I suggest to go here: https://www.ripe.net/about-us/staff/careers-at-the-ripe-ncc/

With best regards, Tobias

P.S.:

...

Waiting next...

Oh, is there a queue? Do me, do me! de.wybt! If all the cool kids^W LIRs get this, I want in, too!

-- Dr.-Ing. Tobias Fiebig T +31 616 80 98 99 M tobias@fiebig.nl

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On 27. 5. 24 14:17, Mihail Fedorov wrote:> I’m not sure about other members. But from my perspective - members

funded org structure means you should have report on every single cent spent, no exclusions possible. How many servers put and what for and what are traffic amounts on each switch port. This is how governance works normally. You don’t have to read all reports, but they should exist.

Not really. We voted for the board members and the executive board must have an oversight how the RIPE NCC spend LIRs money. Imagine that RIPE NCC would have to spend time and answer every member's inquiry independently about every cent they spend? To accommodate that, they would have to add few more millions to the budget just for that work :) If you want to do the bean-counting - get a job at the financial department of RIPE NCC or run for the board. Cheers, Jan

On 27/05/2024, 13:17:22, "Mihail Fedorov" <mihail@fedorov.net> wrote:

I’m not sure about other members. But from my perspective - members funded org structure means you should have report on every single cent spent, no exclusions possible. How many servers put and what for and what are traffic amounts on each switch port. This is how governance works normally. You don’t have to read all reports, but they should exist.

They could exist but at a price and of what utility? They cannot change history and retribution is not effective management nor are 700 members whatabouting every item and challenging them as they would have prefered a different decision. They may deter some abuses but there are more efficient methods. It is also very easy to hide things in such reports - see government/military contracts.

You don’t simply trust your bank, you do research when choosing.

Yes we do. You may check for previously publicly exposed problems but you do not go in and audit their current systems/software/organisation and practices. If you did you would find things you do not like in all of them, You elect your government (assuming you are in a democracy), have them regulate the banking sector and trust their reports saying it is all fine.

You do not trust apartment online photos, you go and check

Yes we do. You may go have a look around, but usually pay a surveyor/have your lawyer get a report saying that stuff looks ok and their annual inspections are all current and correct, to the extent they are required to be by law. You do not personally sample and test the building cladding to checked if it is made of flamable materials, excavate and check the foundations, test all the building systems are in spec. You trust someone else more expert in the matters to do this.

You demand from your government full transparency.

Governments are not usualy transparent until about 30 years later when the secret documents become public (redacted) and the guilty are long gone.

But when it comes to RIPE - doing NDA on supply chain is somehow ok.

Regardless of *any* personalities and regardless of *any* trust you might or might not have in them - this is terribly wrong and leads to terrible things.

We are trusting the systems not individual people.

I will be happy to understand how “trust us, what we do is not your business” model can be better by any means.

That is totally not how governance works. 20000 of us don't have time (ok some seem to have more time to go into the bits that interest them on the list) for this so we elect a board to look after it. We don’t pay the board to be full time so they hire a management team and staff to manage daily operations. There is delegation throughout but they are accountable so if there were problems members/board/managment can audit/investigate/report/fix. We are literally paying with our fees to not have to do all this ourselves unless it majorly screws up, and then we'll make a committee to sort it out. brandon

+1 Am 27.05.24 um 18:35 schrieb Nick Hilliard (Network Ability Ltd):

No-one is going to benefit from turning the RIPE NCC from a working organisation into a paper mill where every unit of activity needs to be turned into 10 units of reports.

-- Kai Siering Senior System Engineer mail.de GmbH Münsterstraße 3 D-33330 Gütersloh Tel.: +49 (0) 5241 / 74 34 986 Fax: +49 (0) 5241 / 74 34 987 E-Mail: k.siering@team.mail.de Web: https://mail.de/ Geschäftsführender Gesellschafter: Fabian Bock Sitz der Gesellschaft Nordhastedt Handelsregister Pinneberg HRB 8007 PI Steuernummer 18 293 20020

I completely agree with what Nick, Randy and others have written. I have watched the discussion over the past year and grown increasingly worried about the view of governance of the RIPE NCC. I understand that members have views or concerns on the overall direction, activities or charging scheme models, but this has on and off now been translated to views on everything from salaries and pay schemes to number of servers and cloud compute models. We have elected a board to run the company on our behalf. We can provide input on strategy and direction, but the board represent us and runs the company for us. They do this by setting strategy and objectives for the executive team. I worry that the RIPE NCC is starting to fall for poor governance and a lack of clarity on how governance of any organisation works, and what constitutes good governance. It is not through micromanagement. As members let’s ensure good corporate governance rules at the RIPE NCC and let’s hold ourselves to this as well. Best Regards, - kurtis - -- Kurt Erik Lindqvist, CEO T: +44 (0) 20 7645 3528 | www.linx.net<http://www.linx.net> [b8dd7c7e-5b7a-4bb3-bf55-4265639a41be]<https://www.linx.net/> London Internet Exchange Ltd (LINX) C/O WeWork, 2 Minister Court, London, EC3R 7BB, United Kingdom Registered in England number 3137929 [09f5285b-9bf5-4663-a1d5-f335264499f8]<https://twitter.com/linx_network>[0ab2af08-4510-4094-a068-c92129623c5c]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/linx>[34761a22-8ab1-4259-b5a4-c45509cfc94a]<https://www.facebook.com/LondonInternetExchange/>[591060a6-addb-47a4-a833-1c93e4b644f4]<https://www.youtube.com/user/LINXnetwork> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Sebastian-Becker@telekom.de <Sebastian-Becker@telekom.de> Date: Monday, 27 May 2024 at 18:14 To: nick@netability.ie <nick@netability.ie>, mihail@fedorov.net <mihail@fedorov.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Questions to RIPE NCC in light of last GM +1 This! Thanks, Nick. Especially: No-one is going to benefit from turning the RIPE NCC from a working organisation into a paper mill where every unit of activity needs to be turned into 10 units of reports. -- Kind Regards Sebastian Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> im Auftrag von Nick Hilliard (Network Ability Ltd) <nick@netability.ie> Datum: Montag, 27. Mai 2024 um 18:36 An: Mihail Fedorov <mihail@fedorov.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] Questions to RIPE NCC in light of last GM Mihail, you're confusing policy governance and operational micromanagement. These two things are fundamentally different. No doubt there's a bunch of people working in the RIPE NCC who have visibility into per-port switch traffic counters, and exactly what model of servers are used, and in which rack location and what style of PSU they're connected up to, and maybe even whether a port should use a grey cable or a black cable. I'm also sure the CFO has proper oversight into material expenditure - for sure his presentation at the GM a couple of days ago suggested that there were appropriate fiscal controls in place in the organisation. But what you're asking for has nothing whatever to do with functional corporate governance. I can see why it might be of passing interest from the point of view of idle curiosity, but that's about it. No-one is going to benefit from turning the RIPE NCC from a working organisation into a paper mill where every unit of activity needs to be turned into 10 units of reports. Nick

For sure, we understand micro-management. 😉 -- Kind Regards Sebastian Am 27.05.24, 13:39 schrieb "members-discuss" <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>: Hi, On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 11:11:07AM +0000, ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED wrote:

Its okay :)

Some members doesnt want transperancy.

Im happy about they leave comments and show their position.

herve.clement@orange.com <mailto:herve.clement@orange.com> -> fr.telecom - Orange S.A. - #2 place in IPv4 PA

holders (53 allocations and 23.655.168 IPv4)

Sebastian-Becker@telekom.de <mailto:Sebastian-Becker@telekom.de> -> de.telekom - Deutsche Telekom AG - #1 place

in IPv4 PA holders (31 allocations and 28.972.544 IPv4)

Waiting next...

Maybe it's the more grown-ups on this list that have understood what "trust" and "delegation of responsibility" means. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Ingo Lalla, Karin Schuler, Sebastian Cler Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279

Sorry , this is incorrect, asking questions is not micromanaging anything, its just asking for information. In the UK we can ask our members of parliament any question we want on government spending and what is spent where this is not micro managing the country . Its not about micro management, its just about asking for information. So just shut up and let RIPE answer the question, and further RIPE haven't done a good job, otherwise we wouldn't be so much communications about budget and spending. Kind Regards, George Porter Operations Director Integrated Network Services Ltd Contact Us The Heath Business & Technical Park Runcorn WA7 4QX 01928 238 390 support@in-services.co.uk SUPPLY – INSTALL – SUPPORT This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. Integrated Network Services Limited, The Heath Business Park, Runcorn, Cheshire WA7 4QX. Tel 01928 238390.  Registered in England 7360277. -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Daniel Suchy via members-discuss Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2024 11:26 AM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Cc: Daniel Suchy <danny@danysek.cz> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Questions to RIPE NCC in light of last GM Do you micromanage also your goverment in your country? ;-) I don't think so. You rather prefer to censor everything, don't you? :-) Transparency level of RIPE NCC is very high. More than anything within your country. Rather you should start organizing your inland affairs in terms of transparency. RIPE NCC operation does not need any fundamental changes, as far as transparency is concerned. On the contrary, you can learn from them how it should be done. - Daniel On 5/27/24 1:11 PM, ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED wrote:

Its okay :) Some members doesnt want transperancy. Im happy about they leave comments and show their position.

Waiting next...

On 27.05.2024 10:56, Mihail Fedorov wrote:

...

Pardon, am I reading it right?

People here are praising lack of transparency and control as something good? Just because they don’t want to read reports? It’s insane.

...

-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Randy Bush Sent: søndag 26. mai 2024 19:46 To: ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED <admin@roskomnadzor.io> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Questions to RIPE NCC in light of last GM

...

No, Im already seen this article. Its same what are was been showed on GM. Its doesnt have detalization.

i, for one, do not want detail.  if i wanted to micro-manage the ncc, i would fill out a job application.  they have done an amazing job for decades, and i trust them to keep doing so.  the extent of the ncc's transparency is often more than i have time read.

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​This would not be micro-managing, this would be more akin to a case study. A deep dive in the world of how RIPE NCC spends a budget for IT, what do they take into consideration, which spending alternatives do they investigate, what considerations are important and which are less important. It is a fine podium for the NCC to showcase the cost effectiveness of the choosen solution and the surrounding policies for fi. data minimalization. A deep dive presentation in Prague + discussion with an audience where the most vocal persons are most likely on top of mount stupid and the once that know are either in the valley of despair or are ascending to the slope of enlightenment the will ensure a lively and entertaining 60 minutes. (please schedule this just before the whiskey-BoF) ​-- IDGARA | Alex de Joode | alex@idgara.nl | +31651108221 On Tue, 28-05-2024 12h 43min, Aleksandar Markovic <a.markovic@expressotelecom.com> wrote:

+1

-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss "><members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of George Porter Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2024 2:38 PM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Questions to RIPE NCC in light of last GM

Sorry , this is incorrect, asking questions is not micromanaging anything, its just asking for information. In the UK we can ask our members of parliament any question we want on government spending and what is spent where this is not micro managing the country . Its not about micro management, its just about asking for information. So just shut up and let RIPE answer the question, and further RIPE haven't done a good job, otherwise we wouldn't be so much communications about budget and spending.

Kind Regards, George Porter Operations Director Integrated Network Services Ltd

Contact Us The Heath Business & Technical Park Runcorn WA7 4QX

01928 238 390 support@in-services.co.uk

SUPPLY – INSTALL – SUPPORT

This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. Integrated Network Services Limited, The Heath Business Park, Runcorn, Cheshire WA7 4QX. Tel 01928 238390. Registered in England 7360277.

-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss "><members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Daniel Suchy via members-discuss Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2024 11:26 AM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Cc: Daniel Suchy "><danny@danysek.cz> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Questions to RIPE NCC in light of last GM

Do you micromanage also your goverment in your country? ;-) I don't think so. You rather prefer to censor everything, don't you? :-)

Transparency level of RIPE NCC is very high. More than anything within your country. Rather you should start organizing your inland affairs in terms of transparency.

RIPE NCC operation does not need any fundamental changes, as far as transparency is concerned. On the contrary, you can learn from them how it should be done.

- Daniel

On 5/27/24 1:11 PM, ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED wrote:

...

Its okay :) Some members doesnt want transperancy. Im happy about they leave comments and show their position.

Waiting next...

On 27.05.2024 10:56, Mihail Fedorov wrote:

...

Pardon, am I reading it right?

People here are praising lack of transparency and control as something good? Just because they don’t want to read reports? It’s insane.

...

-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss "><members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Randy Bush Sent: søndag 26. mai 2024 19:46 To: ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED "><admin@roskomnadzor.io> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Questions to RIPE NCC in light of last GM

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No, Im already seen this article. Its same what are was been showed on GM. Its doesnt have detalization.

i, for one, do not want detail. if i wanted to micro-manage the ncc, i would fill out a job application. they have done an amazing job for decades, and i trust them to keep doing so. the extent of the ncc's transparency is often more than i have time read.

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While I was busy with other things, Daniel fully covered my points. Thanks for that and full support for your answer. -- Kind Regards Sebastian Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> im Auftrag von Daniel Suchy via members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net> Datum: Dienstag, 28. Mai 2024 um 13:15 An: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Cc: Daniel Suchy <danny@danysek.cz> Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] Questions to RIPE NCC in light of last GM You're not correct. You can ask your government for anything as long as it isn't classified information. And you're not gonna ask your government about count of servers they operate, how many packs of paper and pens they buy, count of cars they're using etc... and you probably won't even get such answer. There's no reason to ask for such details on NCC. Yes, that's micro-management. And of course, answering such questions in meaningless details also costs some money, time needed for answer isn't cheap (for free). Wouldn't it be more useful to devote NCC employee's time to something that creates some real value? Of course, if some data is stored for a long time (like RIPE RIS service), some space is required. That costs money. Every sane person can figure it out. And members have the opportunity to influence similar things through long-term strategies. Or you vote for a strategy and don't think about what it might cost? I don't think that the expenses details of NCC are at insufficient level. As was mentioned already, ammount of informations NCC publish is at level, where most people haven't time to read such informations. And I think few people shouting here aren't reading them anyway. It's a lie that NCC doesn't communicate about budget and spending. - Daniel On 5/28/24 12:38 PM, George Porter wrote:

Sorry , this is incorrect, asking questions is not micromanaging anything, its just asking for information. In the UK we can ask our members of parliament any question we want on government spending and what is spent where this is not micro managing the country . Its not about micro management, its just about asking for information. So just shut up and let RIPE answer the question, and further RIPE haven't done a good job, otherwise we wouldn't be so much communications about budget and spending.

On 27.05.24 12:56, Mihail Fedorov wrote:

Pardon, am I reading it right?

People here are praising lack of transparency and control as something good? Just because they don’t want to read reports? It’s insane.

No, they're telling you that if *you* want such detail, you may want to contact RIPE under one of *their* e-mail addresses, rather than asking on (and apparently expecting an answer to) a mailinglist that'll grace *all* members (that haven't fled the list yet) with the extensive answer. Chances are that you will *not* be asked to sign an NDA and thus may redistribute the info to whoever shares your interest. Kind regards, -- Jochen Bern Systemingenieur Binect GmbH

Hi, On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 01:56:36PM +0300, Mihail Fedorov wrote:

Pardon, am I reading it right?

People here are praising lack of transparency and control as something good? Just because they don???t want to read reports? It???s insane.

There's wildly different levels of "transparency". And no, I do not need to know how many servers the RIPE NCC operates, or how they are named, or how their IP addressing scheme works. I do want to know which services eat how much of their IT budget, what the future outlook is (like, "ATLAS needs half of our budget, so we have plans for improvement by doing <x>" <- good enough). It's not our job to micromanage. We tell them what the overall result should be, and leave the details to the NCC. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Ingo Lalla, Karin Schuler, Sebastian Cler Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279

People here are praising lack of transparency and control as something good?

LOL. you don't have an agenda here do you? people are complimenting the ncc on the pretty extreme transparency. randy