Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [service] Decommissioning the IPv4 Transfer Listing Service
Hi Felipe If I was in the need of additional IPv4 space, I would much rather go to a location that is (a) central (b) legitimate (c) verifies that the transferer actually has the rights to the address space and (d) where I can be reasonably assured the sellers abide by RIPE policies. I assume following recent discussions that those brokers found breaking RIPE policy are now actively being removed, so this list is probably the best I could hope for. And any other listing service would not have the ability that you do to verify that the user has the address space in question registered to them. I would much rather this service continue to be maintained by the NCC than have to trawl the internet and deal with some of the shadier characters out there. And I don't feel it is a big ask of the NCC, as it falls under the core remit of responsible stewardship of the resources. And a note on the timing and your perceived utilisation statistics. Just because I have not had a need for it just yet, does not mean I cannot foresee a circumstance in the near future where I will need it. We have only just reached the point of IPv4 runout. I would also raise concerns that "a full reimplementation would be needed to continue supporting it" - how has it been allowed to be developed in such an unmaintainable manner that this is the only way to continue operating it? Regards David On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 at 12:59, Felipe Victolla Silveira <fvictolla@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear members,
In my update at RIPE 80[1], I mentioned that we would like to decommission the IPv4 Transfer Listing Service unless there there were strong objections. So far, we have heard no requests to keep the service.
In case anyone is unfamiliar with this, the listing service allows members to offer/request IPv4 prefixes for transfer:
https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/list...
While there are currently 681,000 IPv4 addresses "offered" on the listing service, when we attempted to match LIRs that had used the service with those that went on to make a transfer, we couldn't find much of a correlation. Of the 1,969 LIRs that transferred resources in our service region last year, only 76 had posted on the listing service and it's not clear whether the service actually connected the offering/receiving parties for these cases.
As the listing service is reaching the end of its lifespan, a full reimplementation would be needed to continue supporting it. Given that the listing service does not appear to be adding much in terms of value, spending development time on this does seem like a good use of members' funds.
We are therefore planning to discontinue the IPv4 Transfer Listing Service on 22 June. If you have strong objections to this, please let us know or share feedback on members-discuss.
Regards
Felipe Victolla Silveira Chief Operations Officer RIPE NCC
[1] RIPE NCC Operational Update:
https://ripe80.ripe.net/wp-content/uploads/presentations/28-Operational-Upda...
Hi Felipe, I agree with maintain the listing service We have done three transfers with contacts made through the service. Best Regards Brian From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of David Croft Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 5:07 PM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Cc: Felipe Victolla Silveira <fvictolla@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [service] Decommissioning the IPv4 Transfer Listing Service Hi Felipe If I was in the need of additional IPv4 space, I would much rather go to a location that is (a) central (b) legitimate (c) verifies that the transferer actually has the rights to the address space and (d) where I can be reasonably assured the sellers abide by RIPE policies. I assume following recent discussions that those brokers found breaking RIPE policy are now actively being removed, so this list is probably the best I could hope for. And any other listing service would not have the ability that you do to verify that the user has the address space in question registered to them. I would much rather this service continue to be maintained by the NCC than have to trawl the internet and deal with some of the shadier characters out there. And I don't feel it is a big ask of the NCC, as it falls under the core remit of responsible stewardship of the resources. And a note on the timing and your perceived utilisation statistics. Just because I have not had a need for it just yet, does not mean I cannot foresee a circumstance in the near future where I will need it. We have only just reached the point of IPv4 runout. I would also raise concerns that "a full reimplementation would be needed to continue supporting it" - how has it been allowed to be developed in such an unmaintainable manner that this is the only way to continue operating it? Regards David On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 at 12:59, Felipe Victolla Silveira <fvictolla@ripe.net<mailto:fvictolla@ripe.net>> wrote: Dear members, In my update at RIPE 80[1], I mentioned that we would like to decommission the IPv4 Transfer Listing Service unless there there were strong objections. So far, we have heard no requests to keep the service. In case anyone is unfamiliar with this, the listing service allows members to offer/request IPv4 prefixes for transfer: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/list... While there are currently 681,000 IPv4 addresses "offered" on the listing service, when we attempted to match LIRs that had used the service with those that went on to make a transfer, we couldn't find much of a correlation. Of the 1,969 LIRs that transferred resources in our service region last year, only 76 had posted on the listing service and it's not clear whether the service actually connected the offering/receiving parties for these cases. As the listing service is reaching the end of its lifespan, a full reimplementation would be needed to continue supporting it. Given that the listing service does not appear to be adding much in terms of value, spending development time on this does seem like a good use of members' funds. We are therefore planning to discontinue the IPv4 Transfer Listing Service on 22 June. If you have strong objections to this, please let us know or share feedback on members-discuss. Regards Felipe Victolla Silveira Chief Operations Officer RIPE NCC [1] RIPE NCC Operational Update: https://ripe80.ripe.net/wp-content/uploads/presentations/28-Operational-Upda...
I guess stats show enough information to make decision. But decision was not such like we could expect. I guess would be better think about how get transfer request/offers to be more useful for members. Why do not ask members how to get list to better status. Obtain feedback, prepare some idea and post it for discussion. Will transfer request/offers stop's with this listing diying? No. If i want find ipv4 to buy where i could do that? On forums? Are you serious? Sure peer to peer contacts work perfect but at least both peer need meeting point where they could exchange with their requests/offers. Right now i expect lot of unwanted emails about do i need ipv4 to purchase or sell... (BTW. I don't need:)) Regards Azer
Hello all, Would be very good if you, people, do not subscribe to this list from email address where is autoresponder enabled. I could understand that for helpdesk/support it is useful mention but for subscribing to common mail list this is very bad idea. Each time when someone post new topic to mail list or reply for existing topic all members got lot of messages from your autoresponders. Best Regards Azer
Peace, On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 7:26 PM Azer Garyagdy <azer@karyagdy.com> wrote:
Would be very good if you, people, do not subscribe to this list from email address where is autoresponder enabled.
As this is the ersatz-private mailing list, people typically subscribe from their working e-mail addresses. There's a common corporate policy to enable autoresponders to all external e-mail in case you're on vacation or sick. Also, there's a common corporate policy to assign employee's e-mail address to the support team when the employee quits. Ergo, it might be worth it to fight autogenerated e-mails elsewhere, in WGs and discussion lists (NANOG is routinely suffering from this), but with members-discuss@ I think it's an inevitable evil. -- Töma
PLEASE REMOVE US FROM THIS LIST!! Legal T: +974 4009 4444 | F: +974 4009 4443 P.O. Box 210153, Doha Qatar www.gbiinc.com -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Töma Gavrichenkov Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 7:37 PM To: azer@karyagdy.com Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Request: Stop autoresponders Peace, On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 7:26 PM Azer Garyagdy <azer@karyagdy.com> wrote:
Would be very good if you, people, do not subscribe to this list from email address where is autoresponder enabled.
As this is the ersatz-private mailing list, people typically subscribe from their working e-mail addresses. There's a common corporate policy to enable autoresponders to all external e-mail in case you're on vacation or sick. Also, there's a common corporate policy to assign employee's e-mail address to the support team when the employee quits. Ergo, it might be worth it to fight autogenerated e-mails elsewhere, in WGs and discussion lists (NANOG is routinely suffering from this), but with members-discuss@ I think it's an inevitable evil. -- Töma _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/legal%40gbiinc.com ________________________________ Legal Notice: This message contains information which is confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorised to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. Although this e-mail and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus, or other defect which might affect any computer or system into which they are received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that they are virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the GBI Group of companies for any loss or damage from receipt or use thereof. The GBI Group of companies conducts business in a reasonable and prudent manner consistent with applicable law and regulations within the GBI Group of companies. All service providers to the GBI Group of companies are required to comply with applicable law and uphold GBI policies and procedures. *************** http://gbiinc.com
PLEASE REMOVE US FROM THIS LIST!!
Is your organization a Local Internet Registry in the RIPE region? If I've understood correctly, by policy then at least one address from your organization must be subscribed to the members-discuss list. Besides, broadcasting this request to all the other LIR contacts in the RIPE region is incredibly rude, because none of us can help you with what you ask. Instead, may I instead suggest you contact the RIPE NCC directly to sort out this issue? Best regards, - Håvard
On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 at 23:08, Havard Eidnes via members-discuss < members-discuss@ripe.net> wrote:
PLEASE REMOVE US FROM THIS LIST!!
There is an Unsubscribe link at the bottom of the email from the list you can use to unsubscribe.
Is your organization a Local Internet Registry in the RIPE
region? If I've understood correctly, by policy then at least one address from your organization must be subscribed to the members-discuss list.
members-discuss is not mandatory. It has 7-8000 subscriptions. members-announce is mandatory and has an address from all LIRs. Instead, may I instead suggest you
contact the RIPE NCC directly to sort out this issue?
While we are happy to help, you can simply click on the Unsubscribe link at the bottom of the message: ——> Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/YOURADDRESS%40 <https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hph%40oslo.net> YOURDOMAIN.TLD Hans Petter Holen Managing Director RIPE NCC -- -- Hans Petter Holen Mobile +47 45 06 60 54 | hph@oslo.net | http://hph.oslo.net
members-discuss is not mandatory. It has 7-8000 subscriptions. members-announce is mandatory and has an address from all LIRs. ... While we are happy to help, you can simply click on the Unsubscribe link at the bottom of the message:
I stand corrected, thanks. Regards, - Håvard
There's a common corporate policy to enable autoresponders to all external e-mail in case you're on vacation or sick.
And nearly all those autoresponders are IMHO broken, because they do not distinguish between messages delivered via a mailing list and messges directly addressed to the recipient. Only messages in the latter category should get the "vacation / absent" auto-response. It could sensibly be argued that ticket systems ought to act the same way.
Ergo, it might be worth it to fight autogenerated e-mails elsewhere, in WGs and discussion lists (NANOG is routinely suffering from this), but with members-discuss@ I think it's an inevitable evil.
Sorry, I respectfully disagree. Regards, - Håvard
Ergo, it might be worth it to fight autogenerated e-mails elsewhere, in WGs and discussion lists (NANOG is routinely suffering from this), but with members-discuss@ I think it's an inevitable evil.
Sorry, I respectfully disagree.
Same here. I think it is quite trivial for RIPE to solve that. If they are willing to solve. Just send monthly reminder From: <do-not-reply-<<hash>>@ripe.net> <<hash>> generated from base64(sha256('somesecret'+date()+$useremail)). Setup catchall alias do-not-reply-*@ripe.net and redirect to script. If this script/email will get anything same day, then just put automatically all emails from this specific address by default to moderation queue. Thats it.
We've also done three transfers thanks to this service and would like to see it improved instead (e.g. drop sellers/buyers that's not responding). Viktor Ekmark ELASTX | Public Cloud made in Sweden On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 at 17:30, Brian Turnbow via members-discuss < members-discuss@ripe.net> wrote:
Hi Felipe,
I agree with maintain the listing service
We have done three transfers with contacts made through the service.
Best Regards
Brian
*From:* members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] *On Behalf Of *David Croft *Sent:* Wednesday, June 10, 2020 5:07 PM *To:* members-discuss@ripe.net *Cc:* Felipe Victolla Silveira <fvictolla@ripe.net> *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [service] Decommissioning the IPv4 Transfer Listing Service
Hi Felipe
If I was in the need of additional IPv4 space, I would much rather go to a location that is (a) central (b) legitimate (c) verifies that the transferer actually has the rights to the address space and (d) where I can be reasonably assured the sellers abide by RIPE policies.
I assume following recent discussions that those brokers found breaking RIPE policy are now actively being removed, so this list is probably the best I could hope for. And any other listing service would not have the ability that you do to verify that the user has the address space in question registered to them.
I would much rather this service continue to be maintained by the NCC than have to trawl the internet and deal with some of the shadier characters out there. And I don't feel it is a big ask of the NCC, as it falls under the core remit of responsible stewardship of the resources.
And a note on the timing and your perceived utilisation statistics. Just because I have not had a need for it just yet, does not mean I cannot foresee a circumstance in the near future where I will need it. We have only just reached the point of IPv4 runout.
I would also raise concerns that "a full reimplementation would be needed to continue supporting it" - how has it been allowed to be developed in such an unmaintainable manner that this is the only way to continue operating it?
Regards
David
On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 at 12:59, Felipe Victolla Silveira <fvictolla@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear members,
In my update at RIPE 80[1], I mentioned that we would like to decommission the IPv4 Transfer Listing Service unless there there were strong objections. So far, we have heard no requests to keep the service.
In case anyone is unfamiliar with this, the listing service allows members to offer/request IPv4 prefixes for transfer:
https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/list...
While there are currently 681,000 IPv4 addresses "offered" on the listing service, when we attempted to match LIRs that had used the service with those that went on to make a transfer, we couldn't find much of a correlation. Of the 1,969 LIRs that transferred resources in our service region last year, only 76 had posted on the listing service and it's not clear whether the service actually connected the offering/receiving parties for these cases.
As the listing service is reaching the end of its lifespan, a full reimplementation would be needed to continue supporting it. Given that the listing service does not appear to be adding much in terms of value, spending development time on this does seem like a good use of members' funds.
We are therefore planning to discontinue the IPv4 Transfer Listing Service on 22 June. If you have strong objections to this, please let us know or share feedback on members-discuss.
Regards
Felipe Victolla Silveira Chief Operations Officer RIPE NCC
[1] RIPE NCC Operational Update:
https://ripe80.ripe.net/wp-content/uploads/presentations/28-Operational-Upda...
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/viktor.ekmark%40elast...
participants (9)
-
Azer Garyagdy -
Brian Turnbow -
David Croft -
Denys Fedoryshchenko -
Hans Petter Holen -
Havard Eidnes -
Legal -
Töma Gavrichenkov -
Viktor Ekmark