Re: [members-discuss] [address-policy-wg] [ncc-services-wg] Crimea papers
Hi, First, move this discussion to NCC Services and Members-discuss...
lets see this article
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.226.01...
I think these are the most relevant parts. First the definitions:
“brokering services” means: (i) the negotiation or arrangement of transactions for the purchase, sale or supply of goods and technology or of financial and technical services, including from a third country to any other third country; or (ii) the selling or buying of goods and technology or of financial and technical services, including where they are located in third countries for their transfer to another third country.
“technical assistance” means any technical support related to repairs, development, manufacture, assembly, testing, maintenance, or any other technical service, and may take forms such as instruction, advice, training, transmission of working knowledge or skills or consulting services; technical assistance includes verbal forms of assistance.’.
Then under article 2c:
2. Annex III shall include key equipment and technology related to the creation, acquisition or development of infrastructure in the following sectors: [...] (b) telecommunications; [...]
and
3. It shall be prohibited to: (a) provide, directly or indirectly, technical assistance or brokering services related to the key equipment and technology listed in Annex III, or related to the provision, manufacture, maintenance and use of items listed in Annex III to any natural or legal person, entity or body in Crimea or Sevastopol or for use in Crimea or Sevastopol; and (b) provide, directly or indirectly, financing or financial asssistance related to the key equipment and technology listed in Annex III to any natural or legal person, entity or body in Crimea or Sevastopol or for use in Crimea or Sevastopol.
As a networking person 'related to the provision [...] and use of items listed' does seem to include allocating number resources. I think we need some legal advice on this issue again... Cheers, Sander
Hi, I just got a question about how I meant this sentence:
As a networking person 'related to the provision [...] and use of items listed' does seem to include allocating number resources.
Just so that people don't misunderstand me: what I meant here is that the terminology used in this legal document has some specific meaning in the networking world. The meaning in a legal sense is probably completely different from what I as a networking engineer would read. Which is why I think we need to let a legal specialist comment on this. IANAL and my opinion doesn't mean anything here :) Sorry for the confusion! Cheers, Sander
Dear all, The RIPE NCC follows the developments regarding sanctions adopted by the European Union (EU) and reviews whether these sanctions restrict us from providing services to network operators in certain regions or from having a contractual relationship with them. Additionally, the RIPE NCC communicates with the Dutch authorities in order to clarify the details of the imposed sanctions and our obligations. So far, the EU sanctions adopted for the Crimea region (including the newest sanctions imposed by the EU by adopting the Council Regulation (EU) No 825/2014 of 30 July 2014) do not restrict us from doing any of the above. http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.226.01... In response to the concerns raised about this new Regulation, we have the following remarks: According to Article 2c of the Regulation: 1. It shall be prohibited to sell, supply, transfer, export, directly or indirectly, key equipment and technology as listed in _Annex_III_ to any natural or legal person, entity or body in Crimea or Sevastopol or for use in Crimea or Sevastopol. 2. _Annex_III_ shall include key equipment and technology related to the creation, acquisition or development of infrastructure in the following sectors: ... (b) telecommunications; ... 3. It shall be prohibited to: (a) provide, directly or indirectly, technical assistance or brokering services related to the key equipment and technology listed in _Annex_III_, or related to the provision, manufacture, maintenance and use of items listed in _Annex_III_ to any natural or legal person, entity or body in Crimea or Sevastopol or for use in Crimea or Sevastopol; ... So any prohibition is related to key equipment and technology as listed in Annex III. Annex III does not include anything related to the services we provide, including the registration of Internet number resources. We will continue to follow the development of any sanctions that affect the provisioning of services in our region. Kind regards, Athina Fragkouli Legal Counsel RIPE NCC On 31/07/14 14:38, Sander Steffann wrote:
Hi,
I just got a question about how I meant this sentence:
As a networking person 'related to the provision [...] and use of items listed' does seem to include allocating number resources.
Just so that people don't misunderstand me: what I meant here is that the terminology used in this legal document has some specific meaning in the networking world. The meaning in a legal sense is probably completely different from what I as a networking engineer would read. Which is why I think we need to let a legal specialist comment on this. IANAL and my opinion doesn't mean anything here :)
Sorry for the confusion!
Cheers, Sander
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Hi Athina,
So any prohibition is related to key equipment and technology as listed in Annex III.
Annex III does not include anything related to the services we provide, including the registration of Internet number resources.
Glad to hear that! Life for people there is difficult enough as it is, and having access to internet resources can only help them.
We will continue to follow the development of any sanctions that affect the provisioning of services in our region.
Thank you Athina, Sander
Hi all, Glad to know about that but I think that wasnt the exactly question. I think the quetion was: Is RIPE acceping legal papers for Crimea from Russia, from Ukraine or from both countries? If im wrong, please feel free to correct me! -Daniel El 2014-08-01 14:26, Athina Fragkouli escribió:
Dear all,
The RIPE NCC follows the developments regarding sanctions adopted by the European Union (EU) and reviews whether these sanctions restrict us from providing services to network operators in certain regions or from having a contractual relationship with them.
Additionally, the RIPE NCC communicates with the Dutch authorities in order to clarify the details of the imposed sanctions and our obligations.
So far, the EU sanctions adopted for the Crimea region (including the newest sanctions imposed by the EU by adopting the Council Regulation (EU) No 825/2014 of 30 July 2014) do not restrict us from doing any of the above.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.226.01...
In response to the concerns raised about this new Regulation, we have the following remarks:
According to Article 2c of the Regulation: 1. It shall be prohibited to sell, supply, transfer, export, directly or indirectly, key equipment and technology as listed in _Annex_III_ to any natural or legal person, entity or body in Crimea or Sevastopol or for use in Crimea or Sevastopol. 2. _Annex_III_ shall include key equipment and technology related to the creation, acquisition or development of infrastructure in the following sectors: ... (b) telecommunications; ... 3. It shall be prohibited to: (a) provide, directly or indirectly, technical assistance or brokering services related to the key equipment and technology listed in _Annex_III_, or related to the provision, manufacture, maintenance and use of items listed in _Annex_III_ to any natural or legal person, entity or body in Crimea or Sevastopol or for use in Crimea or Sevastopol; ...
So any prohibition is related to key equipment and technology as listed in Annex III.
Annex III does not include anything related to the services we provide, including the registration of Internet number resources.
We will continue to follow the development of any sanctions that affect the provisioning of services in our region.
Kind regards,
Athina Fragkouli Legal Counsel RIPE NCC
On 31/07/14 14:38, Sander Steffann wrote:
Hi,
I just got a question about how I meant this sentence:
As a networking person 'related to the provision [...] and use of items listed' does seem to include allocating number resources.
Just so that people don't misunderstand me: what I meant here is that the terminology used in this legal document has some specific meaning in the networking world. The meaning in a legal sense is probably completely different from what I as a networking engineer would read. Which is why I think we need to let a legal specialist comment on this. IANAL and my opinion doesn't mean anything here :)
Sorry for the confusion!
Cheers, Sander
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I would imagine that the RIPE NCC accepts valid LIR requests from any member, regardless of their physical location. I would also imagine that membership applications are accepted from any body, in the absence of specific sanctions against that body (which Athina has assured us do not exist for the Crimea region). Nigel On 02/08/14 08:02, d.baeza@tvt-datos.es wrote:
Hi all,
Glad to know about that but I think that wasnt the exactly question.
I think the quetion was:
Is RIPE acceping legal papers for Crimea from Russia, from Ukraine or from both countries?
If im wrong, please feel free to correct me!
-Daniel
On a positive note I'm pleased to report that I only got five automated responses to this email Combell: please take your ticketing system off members-discuss, you have the distinction of apparently being the last member to acquire clue in this matter Stepanov Vadim, Sergio Tabarés, Carlos Fernández Carvajal, Alfonso Masana: please make sure your vacation program doesn't respond to mailing lists. Nigel On 02/08/14 10:20, Nigel Titley wrote:
I would imagine that the RIPE NCC accepts valid LIR requests from any member, regardless of their physical location.
I would also imagine that membership applications are accepted from any body, in the absence of specific sanctions against that body (which Athina has assured us do not exist for the Crimea region).
Nigel
On 02/08/14 08:02, d.baeza@tvt-datos.es wrote:
Hi all,
Glad to know about that but I think that wasnt the exactly question.
I think the quetion was:
Is RIPE acceping legal papers for Crimea from Russia, from Ukraine or from both countries?
If im wrong, please feel free to correct me!
-Daniel
---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
participants (4)
-
Athina Fragkouli -
d.baeza＠tvt-datos.es -
Nigel Titley -
Sander Steffann