Oh, really? End Users don't care about particular Internet Protocol. They care about Internet connectivity. The Internet on behalf of web content is ready to face IPv6 End Users. The whole problem sits in your head. 22 июля 2016 г. 0:11:43 GMT+03:00, Comtel <lir@cmtl.ru> пишет:
We deploy IPv6
The end users need IPv4.
They do not need IPv6.
Any real practical ideas about it?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
-- Простите за краткость, создано в K-9 Mail.
Hi,
The problem is in equipment. How many IPv6 devices users actually have?
Every PC, mobile phone and tablet that still gets firmware and OS updates. Most printers as well. And for provisioning those devices with IPv6: take a look at https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html. Google shows that 12.5% of all users world-wide not only have devices that support IPv6 but also an ISP that provides them with IPv6. Take a look at http://www.worldipv6launch.org/measurements/, it shows how major networks in the world (Comcast, AT&T, KDDI, Verizon Wireless, Time Warner Cable, SoftBank, Deutsche Telecom, Sky, T-Mobile USA etc etc etc) are providing IPv6 to their users.
Why is it still allowed to produce IPv4 equipment, like IP cameras?
Because supporting multiple network protocols in parallel is to everyone's benefit. And yes: all my IP cameras support IPv6 as well. Everybody who invests in IPv4-only equipment these days is not making a very smart buying decision. There are no laws against stupidity...
Who in RIPE is responsible for coordinating with manufactures? Why does he fail?
Every RIPE member (which includes you) should talk to vendors about IPv6 support. And the RIPE NCC (of which you apparently also a member as you are on the members-discuss mailing list) just agreed to help fund the IETF where internet standards are developed and all major vendors are involved. It's not RIPE NCC's job to coordinate with manufacturers, it's yours. Talk to your vendors, talk to your upstreams and peers, vote with your wallet. The RIPE community and RIPE NCC have been telling all stakeholders that they need to invest in IPv6 for years. Those that didn't listen are responsible for their own problems... Cheers, Sander
On Fri, Jul 22, 2016, at 00:57, Sander Steffann wrote:
Google shows that 12.5% of all users world-wide not only have devices that support IPv6 but also an ISP that provides them with IPv6. Take a
No. At least not exactly. That should read : 12.5% of the devices *accessing* *Google* support IPv6 and have access to IPv6 internet, which may be provided by their ISP or via some tunnelbroker.
networks in the world (Comcast, AT&T, KDDI, Verizon Wireless, Time Warner Cable, SoftBank, Deutsche Telecom, Sky, T-Mobile USA etc etc etc) are providing IPv6 to their users.
I would like to see in detail how things happen to business users. Residential is quite easy. Business users is another story.
Why is it still allowed to produce IPv4 equipment, like IP cameras?
Because supporting multiple network protocols in parallel is to everyone's benefit. And yes: all my IP cameras support IPv6 as well.
He probably meant "IPv4-only".
Everybody who invests in IPv4-only equipment these days is not making a very smart buying decision. There are no laws against stupidity...
Because when you buy an IP camera you can be 100% sure that it will support IPv6 before purchase ? Just did the exercice of looking for an IP camera and took the 5 first results (of which 2 from a well-known manufaturer that is supposed to support IPv6 at least in the home router products). 3 of those had no mention of IPv6 (no explicit mention of IPv4 either). The 2 others (from the known manufacturer) had explicit mention of IPv4 and no mention of IPv6. Should we talk about "smart" TVs ? Should we talk of game consoles (especially PS consoles, known to also pose problems with CGN) ? Yes, IPv6 works, but it's not in wide use. The internet is not just only Google, Facebook and Netflix .... That's how things start being complicated.
Hi, as we already have IPv6 launch day: it would be a good practice once every 3-6 months to do "Day Without V4", all providers just switch off v4 BGP. Then many providers who implemented IPv6 and their clients will still get at least ~"10%-15%" of internet. (at least Facebook, Google, etc.) While these clients/customers sitting on IPv4 gets nothing, and they will go to providers and be begging for IPv6 :) regards, Simas Mockevicius HOSTLINE, UAB On 2016.07.22 01:07, Comtel wrote:
"The whole problem sits in your head" The problem is in equipment. How many IPv6 devices users actually have? Why is it still allowed to produce IPv4 equipment, like IP cameras? Who in RIPE is responsible for coordinating with manufactures? Why does he fail?
---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
Hi
在 2016年7月22日，下午1:17，HOSTLINE <hostmaster@hostline.lt> 写道：
Hi,
as we already have IPv6 launch day: it would be a good practice once every 3-6 months to do "Day Without V4", all providers just switch off v4 BGP. Then many providers who implemented IPv6 and their clients will still get at least ~"10%-15%" of internet. (at least Facebook, Google, etc.) While these clients/customers sitting on IPv4 gets nothing, and they will go to providers and be begging for IPv6 :)
You see, this is kind of idea technical people would love but executive people will kill you for:)
regards, Simas Mockevicius HOSTLINE, UAB
On 2016.07.22 01:07, Comtel wrote: "The whole problem sits in your head" The problem is in equipment. How many IPv6 devices users actually have? Why is it still allowed to produce IPv4 equipment, like IP cameras? Who in RIPE is responsible for coordinating with manufactures? Why does he fail?
---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
What about major players implementing rate limiting for ipv4. Turn ipv6 into the new 4g. On 22 Jul 2016 08:18, "HOSTLINE" <hostmaster@hostline.lt> wrote:
Hi,
as we already have IPv6 launch day: it would be a good practice once every 3-6 months to do "Day Without V4", all providers just switch off v4 BGP. Then many providers who implemented IPv6 and their clients will still get at least ~"10%-15%" of internet. (at least Facebook, Google, etc.) While these clients/customers sitting on IPv4 gets nothing, and they will go to providers and be begging for IPv6 :)
regards, Simas Mockevicius HOSTLINE, UAB
On 2016.07.22 01:07, Comtel wrote:
"The whole problem sits in your head" The problem is in equipment. How many IPv6 devices users actually have? Why is it still allowed to produce IPv4 equipment, like IP cameras? Who in RIPE is responsible for coordinating with manufactures? Why does he fail?
---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page:https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
Hi there, I have a practical solution, Ripe should just restrict the IPv4 /22 blocks to ISP's who demonstrate they are IPv6 compliant. That would include: a) Only allow ISP's to order a /22 from from an IPv6 address. b) Show their website works on IPv6 c) Show that their name servers use IPv6. Also Ripe should offer LIR's a discount is annual fee's for those who are compliant. Those who are not should get charged more and that extra Revenue would be used to teach people how to changeover to IPv6. Its simple really, start from the top and work your way down. --- * Dave Geoghegan* /Managing Director //Web World Ireland Unit B15 South City Business Centre Tallaght Dublin 24 /Location Map <https://www.webworld.ie/contact.php> / //Tel: +35314951112 Web: www.webworld.host Email: daveg@webworld.ie /<http://www.twitter.com/webworldireland> <http://www.facebook.com/webworldireland> <http://ie.linkedin.com/in/geoghegandave> <https://plus.google.com/u/0/100680973970011931118/posts> This message contains confidential information and is intended for the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. On 21/07/2016 22:11, Comtel wrote:
We deploy IPv6 The end users need IPv4. They do not need IPv6. Any real practical ideas about it?
---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
a) Only allow ISP's to order a /22 from from an IPv6 address. b) Show their website works on IPv6 c) Show that their name servers use IPv6.
Your "incentive plan" does nothing that isn't already taking place. New ISPs It would only mean that new ISPs would have working IPv6 to their website, name servers and a least one PC (which likely is in the lab or the ISP office network). It does nothing to ensure they actually deploy IPv6 to end customers. You are - on the other hand - prolonging their startup time since they can't get anywhere with their IPv4 CGN solution before they have working IPv6. It also does nothing towards moving existing ISPs with "enough" IPv4 space towards providing IPv6 to the masses. IPv4 is legacy. If you only provide IPv4 you offering is broken. Stop complaining and start deploying. -- Lasse Leegaard lle@nationalbanken.dk<mailto:lle@nationalbanken.dk> +45 4075 6093 Hvis De har modtaget denne e-mail ved en fejl, bedes den returneret til afsenderen og derefter slettet. If you received this email by mistake, please let us know and delete the email.
Your "incentive plan" does nothing that isn't already taking place.
Rubbish, I got multiple /22's and nobody gave me any incentive to use IPv6.
New ISPs It would only mean that new ISPs would have working IPv6 to their website, name servers and a least one PC (which likely is in the lab or the ISP office network). It does nothing to ensure they actually deploy IPv6 to end customers.
That's not correct, you can incentivize old customers as well by lowering their prices. If ISP's use IPv6 then they are more likely to offer it to their customers.
You are – on the other hand – prolonging their startup time since they can't get anywhere with their IPv4 CGN solution before they have working IPv6.
So what? IPv4 will run out, are you helping them by making it easy? I'm pro IPv6 but honestly you can't give them away right now. --- * Dave Geoghegan* /Managing Director //Web World Ireland Unit B15 South City Business Centre Tallaght Dublin 24 /Location Map <https://www.webworld.ie/contact.php> / //Tel: +35314951112 Web: www.webworld.host Email: daveg@webworld.ie /<http://www.twitter.com/webworldireland> <http://www.facebook.com/webworldireland> <http://ie.linkedin.com/in/geoghegandave> <https://plus.google.com/u/0/100680973970011931118/posts> This message contains confidential information and is intended for the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. On 22/07/2016 10:30, Lasse Bliksted Leegaard Jensen wrote:
a) Only allow ISP's to order a /22 from from an IPv6 address. b) Show their website works on IPv6 c) Show that their name servers use IPv6.
Your "incentive plan" does nothing that isn't already taking place.
New ISPs It would only mean that new ISPs would have working IPv6 to their website, name servers and a least one PC (which likely is in the lab or the ISP office network). It does nothing to ensure they actually deploy IPv6 to end customers.
You are – on the other hand – prolonging their startup time since they can't get anywhere with their IPv4 CGN solution before they have working IPv6.
It also does nothing towards moving existing ISPs with "enough" IPv4 space towards providing IPv6 to the masses.
IPv4 is legacy. If you only provide IPv4 you offering is broken.
Stop complaining and start deploying.
--
Lasse Leegaard
lle@nationalbanken.dk <mailto:lle@nationalbanken.dk>
+45 4075 6093
Hvis De har modtaget denne e-mail ved en fejl, bedes den returneret til afsenderen og derefter slettet. If you received this email by mistake, please let us know and delete the email.
---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
participants (9)
-
Comtel -
Dave Geoghegan -
HOSTLINE -
Lasse Bliksted Leegaard Jensen -
Lu Heng -
Radu-Adrian Feurdean -
Robert Thornton -
Sander Steffann -
Sergey