Placing Members-Discuss in Moderation
Dear members, Today, the Executive Board held a formal meeting in order to officially resolve the appointment of Hans Petter Holen as Managing Director of the RIPE NCC. In light of recent activity on the members-discuss mailing list, we also resolved to place the members-discuss mailing list in moderation until 1 June. This follows numerous complaints that have been made about mails that are off-topic and/or contain material that does not show tolerance or respect for fellow members of the list. The resolution and accompanying text is contained in the draft minutes: https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2020/minutes-134th-exe... With this resolution, the principles of the RIPE Mailing List/RIPE Forum Code of Conduct will be applied to the members-discuss list. Emails that do not meet the requirements of that code of conduct will not be approved to be posted to the list. Mails that do not meet the intended purpose of providing members with a means to discuss membership issues among themselves will also not be approved to be posted to the list. The moderators of the list will be the Executive Board Secretary and one senior member of RIPE NCC staff. Mails will be moderated during office hours. A separate archive of all mails including those rejected by the moderators is available for all members to view should they wish to do so: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss-unmoderated/ The Board is obviously aware that there is an election taking place at the General Meeting and there are also matters of importance to discuss such as the RIPE NCC Financial Report 2019 and the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2021. We are determined to ensure that we remain neutral in facilitating this membership discussion list, and we also hope that members will abide by the purpose of the list and the principles of the code of conduct. Regards, Piotr Strzyżewski RIPE NCC Executive Board Secretary
Hello Piotr,
Today, the Executive Board held a formal meeting in order to officially resolve the appointment of Hans Petter Holen as Managing Director of the RIPE NCC.
Congratulations to Hans Petter!
In light of recent activity on the members-discuss mailing list, we also resolved to place the members-discuss mailing list in moderation until 1 June.
Thank you (the whole Executive Board) so much for taking action. While sometimes thinking outside the box and exploring new solutions can be quite entertaining, the members-discuss list is not the place for that. It is good that this list is now once more usable for RIPE NCC membership related discussions. Cheers, Sander
Dear Piotr, Reading this it sounds great at first but whatever you do to stop such huge email chains will always look like censorship whatever you like to call it. Such email lists do depend on the behaviour of everyone to follow a code but in practice this is usually not 100% possible. Yes it seemed that the email list was mostly in favour of censoring one person but the reality is that the vast majority just watched on and said nothing. In practice censoring damages the democratic credentials of this group because a small number of people have made the decision to do this and an even smaller number of people will police it. This action has put the Executive Board in a dangerous position open to all kinds of criticism and the email chain contained some pretty bad claims like Anti-Semitism. To make things much more simple and leave the censorship to the individual we could learn from Facebook. If a post is made in Facebook and you do not want to keep getting posts the individual can turn off notifications without stopping the discussion for the rest of the people i.e. The vast majority. Remember there are hundreds of people who just observed and did not make a comment but may be interested in both sides of the discussion. To do this before an election is not a good idea at all, remember Russian interference in the US and UK elections claims? It has not gone away. This simple process would mean that for 99% of issues discussed the small censoring committee would not be needed except for personal abuse and offensive language. It also means that people do not have to unsubscribe to the list permanently just for the email chain. Thanks for your time. Regards Chris Izzard Director of Commercial Operations IMC Island Ehf Skipholt 50b 105 Reykjavik Iceland PLMN Code: ISLVW Mob: +44 7968 602 280 Mob: +354 389013 343 Skype: chris.izzard -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Piotr Strzyzewski Sent: Friday, May 1, 2020 16:48 To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: [members-discuss] Placing Members-Discuss in Moderation Dear members, Today, the Executive Board held a formal meeting in order to officially resolve the appointment of Hans Petter Holen as Managing Director of the RIPE NCC. In light of recent activity on the members-discuss mailing list, we also resolved to place the members-discuss mailing list in moderation until 1 June. This follows numerous complaints that have been made about mails that are off-topic and/or contain material that does not show tolerance or respect for fellow members of the list. The resolution and accompanying text is contained in the draft minutes: https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2020/minutes-134th-exe... With this resolution, the principles of the RIPE Mailing List/RIPE Forum Code of Conduct will be applied to the members-discuss list. Emails that do not meet the requirements of that code of conduct will not be approved to be posted to the list. Mails that do not meet the intended purpose of providing members with a means to discuss membership issues among themselves will also not be approved to be posted to the list. The moderators of the list will be the Executive Board Secretary and one senior member of RIPE NCC staff. Mails will be moderated during office hours. A separate archive of all mails including those rejected by the moderators is available for all members to view should they wish to do so: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss-unmoderated/ The Board is obviously aware that there is an election taking place at the General Meeting and there are also matters of importance to discuss such as the RIPE NCC Financial Report 2019 and the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2021. We are determined to ensure that we remain neutral in facilitating this membership discussion list, and we also hope that members will abide by the purpose of the list and the principles of the code of conduct. Regards, Piotr Strzyżewski RIPE NCC Executive Board Secretary _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/support%40imcisland.i...
I agree with Chris. Imposing moderation globally would affect freedom of expression, resulting into censorship based on opinion of moderators, which also could be misleading, because nothing is fully protected from the risks related to human factor. The discussion should be open. A possibility of ignoring some determined email by one member should be enough to deal with unwanted content, however, I believe this is already implemented by most email clients. One could simply add an email to their ignore filter list and this is enough in the most cases. On 5/4/20 8:06 AM, Chris Izzard wrote:
Dear Piotr, Reading this it sounds great at first but whatever you do to stop such huge email chains will always look like censorship whatever you like to call it. Such email lists do depend on the behaviour of everyone to follow a code but in practice this is usually not 100% possible. Yes it seemed that the email list was mostly in favour of censoring one person but the reality is that the vast majority just watched on and said nothing. In practice censoring damages the democratic credentials of this group because a small number of people have made the decision to do this and an even smaller number of people will police it. This action has put the Executive Board in a dangerous position open to all kinds of criticism and the email chain contained some pretty bad claims like Anti-Semitism.
To make things much more simple and leave the censorship to the individual we could learn from Facebook. If a post is made in Facebook and you do not want to keep getting posts the individual can turn off notifications without stopping the discussion for the rest of the people i.e. The vast majority. Remember there are hundreds of people who just observed and did not make a comment but may be interested in both sides of the discussion. To do this before an election is not a good idea at all, remember Russian interference in the US and UK elections claims? It has not gone away. This simple process would mean that for 99% of issues discussed the small censoring committee would not be needed except for personal abuse and offensive language. It also means that people do not have to unsubscribe to the list permanently just for the email chain.
Thanks for your time.
Regards
Chris Izzard Director of Commercial Operations IMC Island Ehf Skipholt 50b 105 Reykjavik Iceland PLMN Code: ISLVW Mob: +44 7968 602 280 Mob: +354 389013 343 Skype: chris.izzard
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Piotr Strzyzewski Sent: Friday, May 1, 2020 16:48 To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: [members-discuss] Placing Members-Discuss in Moderation
Dear members,
Today, the Executive Board held a formal meeting in order to officially resolve the appointment of Hans Petter Holen as Managing Director of the RIPE NCC.
In light of recent activity on the members-discuss mailing list, we also resolved to place the members-discuss mailing list in moderation until 1 June. This follows numerous complaints that have been made about mails that are off-topic and/or contain material that does not show tolerance or respect for fellow members of the list.
The resolution and accompanying text is contained in the draft minutes: https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2020/minutes-134th-exe...
With this resolution, the principles of the RIPE Mailing List/RIPE Forum Code of Conduct will be applied to the members-discuss list. Emails that do not meet the requirements of that code of conduct will not be approved to be posted to the list.
Mails that do not meet the intended purpose of providing members with a means to discuss membership issues among themselves will also not be approved to be posted to the list.
The moderators of the list will be the Executive Board Secretary and one senior member of RIPE NCC staff. Mails will be moderated during office hours. A separate archive of all mails including those rejected by the moderators is available for all members to view should they wish to do so: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss-unmoderated/
The Board is obviously aware that there is an election taking place at the General Meeting and there are also matters of importance to discuss such as the RIPE NCC Financial Report 2019 and the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2021. We are determined to ensure that we remain neutral in facilitating this membership discussion list, and we also hope that members will abide by the purpose of the list and the principles of the code of conduct.
Regards,
Piotr Strzyżewski RIPE NCC Executive Board Secretary
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/support%40imcisland.i... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/head%40global-data-ne...
Sadly, moderation appears to have simply moved the problem with an election candidate taking to mining RipeDB and spamming contacts directly. Can anyone advise what the procedure for reporting DB abuse is? --- Regards, Sam Gaw On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 16:55, Dmitry P <head@global-data-networks.com> wrote:
I agree with Chris.
Imposing moderation globally would affect freedom of expression, resulting into censorship based on opinion of moderators, which also could be misleading, because nothing is fully protected from the risks related to human factor.
The discussion should be open. A possibility of ignoring some determined email by one member should be enough to deal with unwanted content, however, I believe this is already implemented by most email clients. One could simply add an email to their ignore filter list and this is enough in the most cases.
Dear Piotr, Reading this it sounds great at first but whatever you do to stop such huge email chains will always look like censorship whatever you like to call it. Such email lists do depend on the behaviour of everyone to follow a code but in practice this is usually not 100% possible. Yes it seemed that the email list was mostly in favour of censoring one
This action has put the Executive Board in a dangerous position open to all kinds of criticism and the email chain contained some pretty bad claims
On 5/4/20 8:06 AM, Chris Izzard wrote: person but the reality is that the vast majority just watched on and said nothing. In practice censoring damages the democratic credentials of this group because a small number of people have made the decision to do this and an even smaller number of people will police it. like Anti-Semitism.
To make things much more simple and leave the censorship to the
If a post is made in Facebook and you do not want to keep getting posts
This simple process would mean that for 99% of issues discussed the small censoring committee would not be needed except for personal abuse and offensive language. It also means that people do not have to unsubscribe to the list
individual we could learn from Facebook. the individual can turn off notifications without stopping the discussion for the rest of the people i.e. The vast majority. Remember there are hundreds of people who just observed and did not make a comment but may be interested in both sides of the discussion. To do this before an election is not a good idea at all, remember Russian interference in the US and UK elections claims? It has not gone away. permanently just for the email chain.
Thanks for your time.
Regards
Chris Izzard Director of Commercial Operations IMC Island Ehf Skipholt 50b 105 Reykjavik Iceland PLMN Code: ISLVW Mob: +44 7968 602 280 Mob: +354 389013 343 Skype: chris.izzard
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of
Piotr Strzyzewski
Sent: Friday, May 1, 2020 16:48 To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: [members-discuss] Placing Members-Discuss in Moderation
Dear members,
Today, the Executive Board held a formal meeting in order to officially resolve the appointment of Hans Petter Holen as Managing Director of the RIPE NCC.
In light of recent activity on the members-discuss mailing list, we also resolved to place the members-discuss mailing list in moderation until 1 June. This follows numerous complaints that have been made about mails that are off-topic and/or contain material that does not show tolerance or respect for fellow members of the list.
The resolution and accompanying text is contained in the draft minutes:
https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2020/minutes-134th-exe...
With this resolution, the principles of the RIPE Mailing List/RIPE Forum
Code of Conduct will be applied to the members-discuss list. Emails that do not meet the requirements of that code of conduct will not be approved to be posted to the list.
Mails that do not meet the intended purpose of providing members with a
means to discuss membership issues among themselves will also not be approved to be posted to the list.
The moderators of the list will be the Executive Board Secretary and one
https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss-unmoderated/
The Board is obviously aware that there is an election taking place at
senior member of RIPE NCC staff. Mails will be moderated during office hours. A separate archive of all mails including those rejected by the moderators is available for all members to view should they wish to do so: the General Meeting and there are also matters of importance to discuss such as the RIPE NCC Financial Report 2019 and the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2021. We are determined to ensure that we remain neutral in facilitating this membership discussion list, and we also hope that members will abide by the purpose of the list and the principles of the code of conduct.
Regards,
Piotr Strzyżewski RIPE NCC Executive Board Secretary
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe:
https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/support%40imcisland.i...
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I would like to know the same as I also received a direct solicitation that is unwanted. Daniel~ On 5/7/20 4:33 AM, Sam Gaw wrote:
Sadly, moderation appears to have simply moved the problem with an election candidate taking to mining RipeDB and spamming contacts directly.
Can anyone advise what the procedure for reporting DB abuse is?
--- Regards, Sam Gaw
On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 16:55, Dmitry P <head@global-data-networks.com <mailto:head@global-data-networks.com>> wrote:
I agree with Chris.
Imposing moderation globally would affect freedom of expression, resulting into censorship based on opinion of moderators, which also could be misleading, because nothing is fully protected from the risks related to human factor.
The discussion should be open. A possibility of ignoring some determined email by one member should be enough to deal with unwanted content, however, I believe this is already implemented by most email clients. One could simply add an email to their ignore filter list and this is enough in the most cases.
On 5/4/20 8:06 AM, Chris Izzard wrote: > Dear Piotr, > Reading this it sounds great at first but whatever you do to stop such huge email chains will always look like censorship whatever you like to call it. Such email lists do depend on the behaviour of everyone to follow a code but in practice this is usually not 100% possible. > Yes it seemed that the email list was mostly in favour of censoring one person but the reality is that the vast majority just watched on and said nothing. In practice censoring damages the democratic credentials of this group because a small number of people have made the decision to do this and an even smaller number of people will police it. > This action has put the Executive Board in a dangerous position open to all kinds of criticism and the email chain contained some pretty bad claims like Anti-Semitism. > > To make things much more simple and leave the censorship to the individual we could learn from Facebook. > If a post is made in Facebook and you do not want to keep getting posts the individual can turn off notifications without stopping the discussion for the rest of the people i.e. The vast majority. Remember there are hundreds of people who just observed and did not make a comment but may be interested in both sides of the discussion. To do this before an election is not a good idea at all, remember Russian interference in the US and UK elections claims? It has not gone away. > This simple process would mean that for 99% of issues discussed the small censoring committee would not be needed except for personal abuse and offensive language. > It also means that people do not have to unsubscribe to the list permanently just for the email chain. > > Thanks for your time. > > Regards > > Chris Izzard > Director of Commercial Operations > IMC Island Ehf > Skipholt 50b > 105 Reykjavik > Iceland > PLMN Code: ISLVW > Mob: +44 7968 602 280 > Mob: +354 389013 343 > Skype: chris.izzard > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> On Behalf Of Piotr Strzyzewski > Sent: Friday, May 1, 2020 16:48 > To: members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> > Subject: [members-discuss] Placing Members-Discuss in Moderation > > Dear members, > > Today, the Executive Board held a formal meeting in order to officially resolve the appointment of Hans Petter Holen as Managing Director of the RIPE NCC. > > In light of recent activity on the members-discuss mailing list, we also resolved to place the members-discuss mailing list in moderation until 1 June. This follows numerous complaints that have been made about mails that are off-topic and/or contain material that does not show tolerance or respect for fellow members of the list. > > The resolution and accompanying text is contained in the draft minutes: > https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2020/minutes-134th-exe... > > With this resolution, the principles of the RIPE Mailing List/RIPE Forum Code of Conduct will be applied to the members-discuss list. Emails that do not meet the requirements of that code of conduct will not be approved to be posted to the list. > > Mails that do not meet the intended purpose of providing members with a means to discuss membership issues among themselves will also not be approved to be posted to the list. > > The moderators of the list will be the Executive Board Secretary and one senior member of RIPE NCC staff. Mails will be moderated during office hours. A separate archive of all mails including those rejected by the moderators is available for all members to view should they wish to do so: > https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss-unmoderated/ > > The Board is obviously aware that there is an election taking place at the General Meeting and there are also matters of importance to discuss such as the RIPE NCC Financial Report 2019 and the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2021. We are determined to ensure that we remain neutral in facilitating this membership discussion list, and we also hope that members will abide by the purpose of the list and the principles of the code of conduct. > > Regards, > > Piotr Strzyżewski > RIPE NCC Executive Board Secretary > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/support%40imcisland.i... > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/head%40global-data-ne...
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Emanuele Roserba, System Engineer email: Emanuele.Roserba@tinext.com
Same here. direct: +41 91 612 2224 Lugano – Geneva – Milan – Dubai – Kuwait City www.tinext.com<http://www.tinext.com> | cloud.tinext.com<https://cloud.tinext.com/> [cid:facebook_9255f417-6f0e-4409-af32-85fd7b7774b9.gif]<https://www.facebook.com/tinextdigital> [cid:linkedin_24bbdc91-fe17-4f58-9461-3fe18872302e.gif] <https://www.linkedin.com/company/tinext-sa> [cid:twitter_d3ef2b73-b169-4f69-992d-fabed76b3a35.gif] <https://twitter.com/tinext_group> CONFIDENTIALITY: this message (including any attachments transmitted with it) contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named herein. If you are not the herein named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute, copy or otherwise make use of this message. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this message by mistake, and delete it from your systems. From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Daniel Pearson Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 5:33 PM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Placing Members-Discuss in Moderation I would like to know the same as I also received a direct solicitation that is unwanted. Daniel~ On 5/7/20 4:33 AM, Sam Gaw wrote: Sadly, moderation appears to have simply moved the problem with an election candidate taking to mining RipeDB and spamming contacts directly. Can anyone advise what the procedure for reporting DB abuse is? --- Regards, Sam Gaw On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 16:55, Dmitry P <head@global-data-networks.com<mailto:head@global-data-networks.com>> wrote: I agree with Chris. Imposing moderation globally would affect freedom of expression, resulting into censorship based on opinion of moderators, which also could be misleading, because nothing is fully protected from the risks related to human factor. The discussion should be open. A possibility of ignoring some determined email by one member should be enough to deal with unwanted content, however, I believe this is already implemented by most email clients. One could simply add an email to their ignore filter list and this is enough in the most cases. On 5/4/20 8:06 AM, Chris Izzard wrote:
Dear Piotr, Reading this it sounds great at first but whatever you do to stop such huge email chains will always look like censorship whatever you like to call it. Such email lists do depend on the behaviour of everyone to follow a code but in practice this is usually not 100% possible. Yes it seemed that the email list was mostly in favour of censoring one person but the reality is that the vast majority just watched on and said nothing. In practice censoring damages the democratic credentials of this group because a small number of people have made the decision to do this and an even smaller number of people will police it. This action has put the Executive Board in a dangerous position open to all kinds of criticism and the email chain contained some pretty bad claims like Anti-Semitism.
To make things much more simple and leave the censorship to the individual we could learn from Facebook. If a post is made in Facebook and you do not want to keep getting posts the individual can turn off notifications without stopping the discussion for the rest of the people i.e. The vast majority. Remember there are hundreds of people who just observed and did not make a comment but may be interested in both sides of the discussion. To do this before an election is not a good idea at all, remember Russian interference in the US and UK elections claims? It has not gone away. This simple process would mean that for 99% of issues discussed the small censoring committee would not be needed except for personal abuse and offensive language. It also means that people do not have to unsubscribe to the list permanently just for the email chain.
Thanks for your time.
Regards
Chris Izzard Director of Commercial Operations IMC Island Ehf Skipholt 50b 105 Reykjavik Iceland PLMN Code: ISLVW Mob: +44 7968 602 280 Mob: +354 389013 343 Skype: chris.izzard
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> On Behalf Of Piotr Strzyzewski Sent: Friday, May 1, 2020 16:48 To: members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: [members-discuss] Placing Members-Discuss in Moderation
Dear members,
Today, the Executive Board held a formal meeting in order to officially resolve the appointment of Hans Petter Holen as Managing Director of the RIPE NCC.
In light of recent activity on the members-discuss mailing list, we also resolved to place the members-discuss mailing list in moderation until 1 June. This follows numerous complaints that have been made about mails that are off-topic and/or contain material that does not show tolerance or respect for fellow members of the list.
The resolution and accompanying text is contained in the draft minutes: https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2020/minutes-134th-exe...
With this resolution, the principles of the RIPE Mailing List/RIPE Forum Code of Conduct will be applied to the members-discuss list. Emails that do not meet the requirements of that code of conduct will not be approved to be posted to the list.
Mails that do not meet the intended purpose of providing members with a means to discuss membership issues among themselves will also not be approved to be posted to the list.
The moderators of the list will be the Executive Board Secretary and one senior member of RIPE NCC staff. Mails will be moderated during office hours. A separate archive of all mails including those rejected by the moderators is available for all members to view should they wish to do so: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss-unmoderated/
The Board is obviously aware that there is an election taking place at the General Meeting and there are also matters of importance to discuss such as the RIPE NCC Financial Report 2019 and the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2021. We are determined to ensure that we remain neutral in facilitating this membership discussion list, and we also hope that members will abide by the purpose of the list and the principles of the code of conduct.
Regards,
Piotr Strzyżewski RIPE NCC Executive Board Secretary
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/support%40imcisland.i... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/head%40global-data-ne...
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Hi Sam, On Thu, May 07, 2020 at 10:33:04AM +0100, Sam Gaw wrote:
Sadly, moderation appears to have simply moved the problem with an election candidate taking to mining RipeDB and spamming contacts directly.
I am extremely concerned to be reading this. Use of contacts from the RIPE DB for purposes outside the terms and conditions (e.g. marketing) is already a big problem, and now there are allegations of a candidate for membership of the board doing this. The terms of use for the RIPE DB clearly state that contacts from it are for operational use only. Most of the time RIPE NCC can do very little about behaviour of third parties, but this allegation is about someone who seeks a leadership position within the RIPE community. If there are not consequences for this then it's time to just give up and say it's okay to market to RIPE DB contacts.
Can anyone advise what the procedure for reporting DB abuse is?
In off-list conversation with RIPE NCC I am told that it is the Executive Board who are taking responsibility for conduct on members-discuss and they are seeking feedback on how members-discuss is to be managed in future. You can contact them at exec-board@ripe.net. We haven't apparently yet had the pleasure of direct mails from any election candidates, but if we had then I would be reporting it to the Exec Board as misuse of the DB and also the relevant data protection body in my jurisdiction (often they don't consider business-to-business matters though). As I haven't personally received any of this I'm not going to make any official complaint but I would encourage anyone who has to do so because this is a fundamental issue of RIPE DB policy on my opinion. I would also be seeking a reassurance from the candidate that they have deleted their copy of any personal data they have collected and stored. Thanks, Andy
Hi,
Sadly, moderation appears to have simply moved the problem with an election candidate taking to mining RipeDB and spamming contacts directly.
Can anyone advise what the procedure for reporting DB abuse is?
I just notified the NCC through https://www.ripe.net/contact-form Cheers, Sander
On 4. May 2020, at 10:06, Chris Izzard <chris.izzard@imcisland.is> wrote:
Dear Piotr, Reading this it sounds great at first but whatever you do to stop such huge email chains will always look like censorship whatever you like to call it. Such email lists do depend on the behaviour of everyone to follow a code but in practice this is usually not 100% possible. Yes it seemed that the email list was mostly in favour of censoring one person but the reality is that the vast majority just watched on and said nothing. In practice censoring damages the democratic credentials of this group because a small number of people have made the decision to do this and an even smaller number of people will police it. This action has put the Executive Board in a dangerous position open to all kinds of criticism and the email chain contained some pretty bad claims like Anti-Semitism.
Hello, I see no dangerous position right now. 1) The moderation is for a limited time 2) You can still see all moderated mails at https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss-unmoderated/ <https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss-unmoderated/> so there is no censorship 3) Multiple calls to adhere to the code of conduct and the topic of the mailinglist were completely ignored on purpose (in my opinion with malicious intent) 4) The "small group of people" is the executive board that we democratically voted on, so I don't see how this is undemocratic. I would even say this is exactly the type of issue that the board should decide On the contrary I (and expect other people) did not say anything as to not contribute to the flood of mails. I'm very grateful that this list is now moderated and I hope that this can be lifted after the election. Also, just make to make it clear: "freedom of expression" should prevent the government from censoring you, it does not prevent you from getting moderated on some mailinglist. On the contrary most countries have rules that limit freedom of expression and this mailinglist has rules as well. Best Regards Sebastian
Emanuele Roserba, System Engineer email: Emanuele.Roserba@tinext.com
As a member of the 'silent majority' I agree with Sebastian. The fact that I remained silent, doesn't mean that I endorse in any way the positions of the 'flooder'. Kind regards. direct: +41 91 612 2224 Lugano - Geneva - Milan - Dubai - Kuwait City www.tinext.com<http://www.tinext.com> | cloud.tinext.com<https://cloud.tinext.com/> [cid:facebook_9255f417-6f0e-4409-af32-85fd7b7774b9.gif]<https://www.facebook.com/tinextdigital> [cid:linkedin_24bbdc91-fe17-4f58-9461-3fe18872302e.gif] <https://www.linkedin.com/company/tinext-sa> [cid:twitter_d3ef2b73-b169-4f69-992d-fabed76b3a35.gif] <https://twitter.com/tinext_group> CONFIDENTIALITY: this message (including any attachments transmitted with it) contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named herein. If you are not the herein named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute, copy or otherwise make use of this message. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this message by mistake, and delete it from your systems. From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Sebastian Wiesinger Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 3:40 PM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Placing Members-Discuss in Moderation Importance: High On 4. May 2020, at 10:06, Chris Izzard <chris.izzard@imcisland.is<mailto:chris.izzard@imcisland.is>> wrote: Dear Piotr, Reading this it sounds great at first but whatever you do to stop such huge email chains will always look like censorship whatever you like to call it. Such email lists do depend on the behaviour of everyone to follow a code but in practice this is usually not 100% possible. Yes it seemed that the email list was mostly in favour of censoring one person but the reality is that the vast majority just watched on and said nothing. In practice censoring damages the democratic credentials of this group because a small number of people have made the decision to do this and an even smaller number of people will police it. This action has put the Executive Board in a dangerous position open to all kinds of criticism and the email chain contained some pretty bad claims like Anti-Semitism. Hello, I see no dangerous position right now. 1) The moderation is for a limited time 2) You can still see all moderated mails at https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss-unmoderated/ so there is no censorship 3) Multiple calls to adhere to the code of conduct and the topic of the mailinglist were completely ignored on purpose (in my opinion with malicious intent) 4) The "small group of people" is the executive board that we democratically voted on, so I don't see how this is undemocratic. I would even say this is exactly the type of issue that the board should decide On the contrary I (and expect other people) did not say anything as to not contribute to the flood of mails. I'm very grateful that this list is now moderated and I hope that this can be lifted after the election. Also, just make to make it clear: "freedom of expression" should prevent the government from censoring you, it does not prevent you from getting moderated on some mailinglist. On the contrary most countries have rules that limit freedom of expression and this mailinglist has rules as well. Best Regards Sebastian
On 7-5-2020 17:36, Emanuele Roserba (Tinext) wrote:
As a member of the ‘silent majority’ I agree with Sebastian.
The fact that I remained silent, doesn’t mean that I endorse in any way the positions of the ‘flooder’.
Perhaps a good reason to register for voting. --Willem Jan
Kind regards.
*>>** **Emanuele Roserba, System Engineer *email: Emanuele.Roserba@tinext.com direct: +41 91 612 2224
*Lugano – Geneva – Milan – Dubai – Kuwait City *
www.tinext.com <http://www.tinext.com> | cloud.tinext.com <https://cloud.tinext.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/tinextdigital> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/tinext-sa> <https://twitter.com/tinext_group>
CONFIDENTIALITY: this message (including any attachments transmitted with it) contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named herein. If you are not the herein named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute, copy or otherwise make use of this message. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this message by mistake, and delete it from your systems.
*From:*members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> *On Behalf Of *Sebastian Wiesinger *Sent:* Thursday, May 7, 2020 3:40 PM *To:* members-discuss@ripe.net *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Placing Members-Discuss in Moderation *Importance:* High
On 4. May 2020, at 10:06, Chris Izzard <chris.izzard@imcisland.is <mailto:chris.izzard@imcisland.is>> wrote:
Dear Piotr, Reading this it sounds great at first but whatever you do to stop such huge email chains will always look like censorship whatever you like to call it. Such email lists do depend on the behaviour of everyone to follow a code but in practice this is usually not 100% possible. Yes it seemed that the email list was mostly in favour of censoring one person but the reality is that the vast majority just watched on and said nothing. In practice censoring damages the democratic credentials of this group because a small number of people have made the decision to do this and an even smaller number of people will police it. This action has put the Executive Board in a dangerous position open to all kinds of criticism and the email chain contained some pretty bad claims like Anti-Semitism.
Hello,
I see no dangerous position right now.
1) The moderation is for a limited time
2) You can still see all moderated mails at https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss-unmoderated/ so there is no censorship
3) Multiple calls to adhere to the code of conduct and the topic of the mailinglist were completely ignored on purpose (in my opinion with malicious intent)
4) The "small group of people" is the executive board that we democratically voted on, so I don't see how this is undemocratic. I would even say this is exactly the type of issue that the board should decide
On the contrary I (and expect other people) did not say anything as to not contribute to the flood of mails. I'm very grateful that this list is now moderated and I hope that this can be lifted after the election.
Also, just make to make it clear: "freedom of expression" should prevent the government from censoring you, it does not prevent you from getting moderated on some mailinglist. On the contrary most countries have rules that limit freedom of expression and this mailinglist has rules as well.
Best Regards
Sebastian
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participants (10)
-
Andy Smith -
Chris Izzard -
Daniel Pearson -
Dmitry P -
Emanuele Roserba (Tinext) -
Piotr Strzyżewski -
Sam Gaw -
Sander Steffann -
Sebastian Wiesinger -
Willem Jan Withagen