Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2022 / GM Supporting Documents Published
On 07/04/2021 14:05, Hans Petter Holen wrote: In regards to the Charging Scheme for 2022: I would have hoped that a discussion would have *first* taken place before the NCC decided to propose "to reduce the sign-up fee to lower the barrier for new members to join". How many times have any of us heard someone say "I wish I could join RIPE and get resources but the signup fee of 2000 Euro is a non-starter". Are we trying to attract high school students? Is a 2000 Euro signup fee (being reduced to 1000 Euro in 2022) really a non-starter for a startup? Have we been losing LIRs and therefore we need to actively add new members at a lower fee? Perhaps offer options like: - reduce yearly membership fee to 1300Euro - reduce signup fee to 1000Euro - other options and let the membership vote what option we prefer. That would be the democratic thing to do. Right now the option is either accept the charging scheme or reject it and as far as I know it has never happened that a proposed charging scheme has ever been rejected. Color me disappointed. -Hank Caveat: The views expressed above are solely my own and do not express the views or opinions of my employer
Dear RIPE NCC members,
The RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2022, to be voted on during the RIPE NCC General Meeting (GM) May 2021, has been published. The Executive Board proposes to continue with the existing fee model in 2022 but to reduce the sign-up fee to lower the barrier for new members to join.
All supporting documents for the RIPE NCC General Meeting (GM) May 2021 are now finalised and available at: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/documentation...
The documents include: - RIPE NCC Annual Report 2020 - RIPE NCC Financial Report 2020 - RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2022
We encourage members to read these documents and provide feedback on them on the Members Discuss mailing list or during the GM itself.
The draft agenda containing all the resolutions to be voted on is also available at: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/agenda
An election will be held at this GM to fill two seats on the RIPE NCC Executive Board. There are currently two confirmed candidates. The deadline to nominate candidates is Wednesday, 28 April 2021. All the details are available at: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/eb-elections
Full remote participation is available to all members, including webcast, live chat and electronic voting. Registration can be completed quickly and easily via the LIR Portal: https://my.ripe.net/#/meetings/active
Kind regards,
Hans Petter Holen RIPE NCC Managing Director
------------------------------------------ Important Dates and Deadlines ------------------------------------------
28 April: Close nominations for the RIPE NCC Executive Board elections 5 May: Deadline for proxy vote nominations 5 May: Deadline for members to propose resolutions 5 May: GM Agenda finalised 12 May: RIPE NCC Open House session with candidates for the Executive Board election 19 May: Registration closes at 16:00 (UTC+2) 19 May: GM begins with main meeting at 18:00 (UTC+2) 21 May: GM closes with voting results announcement at 10:15 (UTC+2)
ncc-
Hi, On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 07:02:15PM +0300, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
I would have hoped that a discussion would have *first* taken place before the NCC decided to propose "to reduce the sign-up fee to lower the barrier for new members to join".
This. We've been there before, and people are still annoyed at this sort of one-sided decision process ("drop fees for AS numbers, take it or leave it")... Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
On 07/04/2021 20:43, Gert Doering wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 07:02:15PM +0300, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
I would have hoped that a discussion would have *first* taken place before the NCC decided to propose "to reduce the sign-up fee to lower the barrier for new members to join".
This.
We've been there before, and people are still annoyed at this sort of one-sided decision process ("drop fees for AS numbers, take it or leave it")...
Thanks for summarizing my intent so much better than I did :-) -Hank
Gert Doering -- NetMaster
We've been there before, and people are still annoyed at this sort of one-sided decision process ("drop fees for AS numbers, take it or leave it")...
it is the lack of open discussion and transparency that is the issue, not the proposal per se; for which cynthia makes a good argument. randy --- randy@psg.com `gpg --locate-external-keys --auto-key-locate wkd randy@psg.com` signatures are back, thanks to dmarc header butchery
Hi, I can somehow see how this might be wanting to rely less upon the one time sign up fee as the /22 IPv4 allocations are gone and the number of new members are a lot lower. The yearly membership fee is a more reliable income source. Also consider how much of the total budget would be from sign up fees. In 2020 the sign up fees appear to have been ~6% of the income, so if that got halved but got more members to join (and as such more annual membership fees) it could potentially provide more income long term. to clarify, I am not really basing this on anything beyond guessing and the "STATEMENT OF INCOME AND EXPENDITURE 2020" from the RIPE NCC Financial Report 2020. -Cynthia On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 6:05 PM Hank Nussbacher <hank@interall.co.il> wrote:
On 07/04/2021 14:05, Hans Petter Holen wrote:
In regards to the Charging Scheme for 2022:
I would have hoped that a discussion would have *first* taken place before the NCC decided to propose "to reduce the sign-up fee to lower the barrier for new members to join".
How many times have any of us heard someone say "I wish I could join RIPE and get resources but the signup fee of 2000 Euro is a non-starter".
Are we trying to attract high school students? Is a 2000 Euro signup fee (being reduced to 1000 Euro in 2022) really a non-starter for a startup? Have we been losing LIRs and therefore we need to actively add new members at a lower fee?
Perhaps offer options like:
- reduce yearly membership fee to 1300Euro - reduce signup fee to 1000Euro - other options
and let the membership vote what option we prefer. That would be the democratic thing to do. Right now the option is either accept the charging scheme or reject it and as far as I know it has never happened that a proposed charging scheme has ever been rejected.
Color me disappointed.
-Hank
Caveat: The views expressed above are solely my own and do not express the views or opinions of my employer
Dear RIPE NCC members,
The RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2022, to be voted on during the RIPE NCC General Meeting (GM) May 2021, has been published. The Executive Board proposes to continue with the existing fee model in 2022 but to reduce the sign-up fee to lower the barrier for new members to join.
All supporting documents for the RIPE NCC General Meeting (GM) May 2021 are now finalised and available at: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/documentation...
The documents include: - RIPE NCC Annual Report 2020 - RIPE NCC Financial Report 2020 - RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2022
We encourage members to read these documents and provide feedback on them on the Members Discuss mailing list or during the GM itself.
The draft agenda containing all the resolutions to be voted on is also available at: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/agenda
An election will be held at this GM to fill two seats on the RIPE NCC Executive Board. There are currently two confirmed candidates. The deadline to nominate candidates is Wednesday, 28 April 2021. All the details are available at: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/eb-elections
Full remote participation is available to all members, including webcast, live chat and electronic voting. Registration can be completed quickly and easily via the LIR Portal: https://my.ripe.net/#/meetings/active
Kind regards,
Hans Petter Holen RIPE NCC Managing Director
------------------------------------------ Important Dates and Deadlines ------------------------------------------
28 April: Close nominations for the RIPE NCC Executive Board elections 5 May: Deadline for proxy vote nominations 5 May: Deadline for members to propose resolutions 5 May: GM Agenda finalised 12 May: RIPE NCC Open House session with candidates for the Executive Board election 19 May: Registration closes at 16:00 (UTC+2) 19 May: GM begins with main meeting at 18:00 (UTC+2) 21 May: GM closes with voting results announcement at 10:15 (UTC+2)
ncc-
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/me%40cynthia.re
Dear Hank, all, Thanks for the feedback on the proposed charging scheme. It is the task of the Executive Board to propose a charging scheme for members to vote on at the May General Meeting (GM). If this charging scheme is rejected, then the previous year’s charging scheme will continue to apply. It is true that this rarely happens, although in 2011 members rejected the 2012 charging scheme and the 2011 charging scheme continued to apply for the following year. In May 2015, the following resolution was voted on and rejected by members: “In addition to the Charging Scheme, the General Meeting approves a separate charge of EUR 50 per ASN.” You can see the discussion that took place then in the members-discuss archives: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2015-January/date.ht... https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2015-March/date.html The timeline for the publication of the GM documents is 21 April. We have published the proposed charging scheme early this year and asked members to discuss the proposal so that the Board can get input from members on this document. The Board will pay careful attention to discussions and assess whether to proceed with the proposed scheme for next year or adjust the proposal by 21 April should there be consensus among members for doing so. Members can also propose resolutions to be added to the GM agenda. The deadline to do so is two weeks before the GM and needs the written support of 2% of all members. However, the Board can also consider proposals for resolutions up to four weeks before the GM, when the agenda must be finalised and published. The charging scheme is an important part of our governance. This year, no major changes are proposed apart from the reduction of the sign-up fee. This is intended to reduce the barrier to becoming a member of the RIPE NCC and takes into account the fact that new members must join a waiting list to receive a /24 of address space rather than a /22, as was the situation until late 2019. We do recognise that the charging scheme model needs to be revisited - we have retained the same “one LIR account-one fee” model that was introduced based on recommendations from the Charging Scheme Task Force in 2012. One of the principles decided on by that task force was to have a model that would apply for many years, and this has proved to be the case. We are now in a different environment and it is possible that the current model no longer matches the wishes of the membership or it needs to be updated to guarantee the sustainability of the RIPE NCC. We will start a process of engagement with members on this longer-term issue later this year and ahead of the GM in November so that we can properly assess together the best options for the future of our charging model. Regards, Christian Kaufmann RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman On 07/04/2021 18:02, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
On 07/04/2021 14:05, Hans Petter Holen wrote:
In regards to the Charging Scheme for 2022:
I would have hoped that a discussion would have *first* taken place before the NCC decided to propose "to reduce the sign-up fee to lower the barrier for new members to join".
How many times have any of us heard someone say "I wish I could join RIPE and get resources but the signup fee of 2000 Euro is a non-starter".
Are we trying to attract high school students? Is a 2000 Euro signup fee (being reduced to 1000 Euro in 2022) really a non-starter for a startup? Have we been losing LIRs and therefore we need to actively add new members at a lower fee?
Perhaps offer options like:
- reduce yearly membership fee to 1300Euro - reduce signup fee to 1000Euro - other options
and let the membership vote what option we prefer. That would be the democratic thing to do. Right now the option is either accept the charging scheme or reject it and as far as I know it has never happened that a proposed charging scheme has ever been rejected.
Color me disappointed.
-Hank
Caveat: The views expressed above are solely my own and do not express the views or opinions of my employer
Dear RIPE NCC members,
The RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2022, to be voted on during the RIPE NCC General Meeting (GM) May 2021, has been published. The Executive Board proposes to continue with the existing fee model in 2022 but to reduce the sign-up fee to lower the barrier for new members to join.
All supporting documents for the RIPE NCC General Meeting (GM) May 2021 are now finalised and available at: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/documentation...
The documents include: - RIPE NCC Annual Report 2020 - RIPE NCC Financial Report 2020 - RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2022
We encourage members to read these documents and provide feedback on them on the Members Discuss mailing list or during the GM itself.
The draft agenda containing all the resolutions to be voted on is also available at: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/agenda
An election will be held at this GM to fill two seats on the RIPE NCC Executive Board. There are currently two confirmed candidates. The deadline to nominate candidates is Wednesday, 28 April 2021. All the details are available at: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/eb-elections
Full remote participation is available to all members, including webcast, live chat and electronic voting. Registration can be completed quickly and easily via the LIR Portal: https://my.ripe.net/#/meetings/active
Kind regards,
Hans Petter Holen RIPE NCC Managing Director
------------------------------------------ Important Dates and Deadlines ------------------------------------------
28 April: Close nominations for the RIPE NCC Executive Board elections 5 May: Deadline for proxy vote nominations 5 May: Deadline for members to propose resolutions 5 May: GM Agenda finalised 12 May: RIPE NCC Open House session with candidates for the Executive Board election 19 May: Registration closes at 16:00 (UTC+2) 19 May: GM begins with main meeting at 18:00 (UTC+2) 21 May: GM closes with voting results announcement at 10:15 (UTC+2)
ncc-
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/fergalc%40ripe.net
participants (5)
-
Christian Kaufmann -
Cynthia Revström -
Gert Doering -
Hank Nussbacher -
Randy Bush