M&A procedure and transfers restrictions
Hi. According to the sad document https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-709#transfer36 Internet number resources that are subject to transfer restrictions imposed by the RIPE Policy "RIPE Resource Transfer Policies <http://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/transfer-policies>", and that are transferred due to a change in a member's business structure, must either remain registered with the original LIR account or be registered with a new LIR account. The receiving party will be provided with RIPE NCC services for these Internet number resources via either the original LIR account or the new LIR account until the policy restrictions are lifted. We have the next situation: 1. There are 2 legal entities - A and B, their accounts were opened in Summer 2018. 2. The legal entity B joined to the legal entity A. 3. The NCC transformed the account of the entity B to the additional account of the entity A. While the NCC prepared the LIR Account Agreement and sent it by DHL we finalized the procedure in January 2019 only. 4. But the NCC also called it as transfer because of MERGER_OR_ACQUISITION. 5. So we have the transfer restriction period until January 2021 and the NCC can pay bonus (4200 EUR for 3 accounts) for it's executive board, stuffs etc. I thought, because of the account transformation the procedure cannot be called as transfer of resources. Otherwise the NCC should merge accounts without additional account creation if the transfer restrictions aren't applied because of M&A.
How about a simple solution: - The last/8 policy was designed to give each LIR only a single IPv4 resource in order to keep future LIRs in the game. - Therefore: All resources handed out under the last/8 policy can be hold only once by a single LIR. - If two LIRs merge and both have a /8 resource, they have to give back one of them. - A last/8 resource can’t be transferred to a LIR which already holds another last/8 resource.
No, it's bad solution. It doesn't stimulate to switch to IPv6. Moreover my question isn't about new rules. I ask why does the NCC tell that M&A isn't subject of transfer of the resources but show transfer statistics and prolong 24 months transfer restriction period? вт, 15 янв. 2019 г., 17:37 Lutz Donnerhacke L.Donnerhacke@iks-service.de:
How about a simple solution:
- The last/8 policy was designed to give each LIR only a single IPv4 resource in order to keep future LIRs in the game.
- Therefore: All resources handed out under the last/8 policy can be hold only once by a single LIR.
- If two LIRs merge and both have a /8 resource, they have to give back one of them.
- A last/8 resource can’t be transferred to a LIR which already holds another last/8 resource.
You own 5.000 IPv4. How about you prove to us that you use ALL of them and the unused ones should be handed back to RIPE ? Oh, you can’t work effectively with only a /22 ? Too bad, neither can we. — Petru Bunea / CEO suport@bunea.eu <mailto:suport@bunea.eu> / +40752481282 <tel:+40752481282> Bunea TELECOM / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT http://www.bunea.eu <http://www.bunea.eu/> / +40745495495 <tel:+40745495495>
On 15 Jan 2019, at 16:37, Lutz Donnerhacke <L.Donnerhacke@iks-service.de> wrote:
How about a simple solution: - The last/8 policy was designed to give each LIR only a single IPv4 resource in order to keep future LIRs in the game. - Therefore: All resources handed out under the last/8 policy can be hold only once by a single LIR. - If two LIRs merge and both have a /8 resource, they have to give back one of them. - A last/8 resource can’t be transferred to a LIR which already holds another last/8 resource. _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss <https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss> Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu <https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu>
I’ve given back an unused /19 some years ago. How much space did you offer to the pool? And BTW, I do not *own* any address. Von: Bunea TELECOM <suport@bunea.eu> Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Januar 2019 16:32 An: Lutz Donnerhacke <L.Donnerhacke@iks-service.de> Cc: Aleksey Bulgakov <aleksbulgakov@gmail.com>; members-discuss@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] M&A procedure and transfers restrictions You own 5.000 IPv4. How about you prove to us that you use ALL of them and the unused ones should be handed back to RIPE ? Oh, you can’t work effectively with only a /22 ? Too bad, neither can we. — [cid:image001.jpg@01D4ACF0.9793C780] Petru Bunea / CEO suport@bunea.eu<mailto:suport@bunea.eu> / +40752481282<tel:+40752481282> Bunea TELECOM / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT http://www.bunea.eu<http://www.bunea.eu/> / +40745495495<tel:+40745495495> On 15 Jan 2019, at 16:37, Lutz Donnerhacke <L.Donnerhacke@iks-service.de<mailto:L.Donnerhacke@iks-service.de>> wrote: How about a simple solution: - The last/8 policy was designed to give each LIR only a single IPv4 resource in order to keep future LIRs in the game. - Therefore: All resources handed out under the last/8 policy can be hold only once by a single LIR. - If two LIRs merge and both have a /8 resource, they have to give back one of them. - A last/8 resource can’t be transferred to a LIR which already holds another last/8 resource. _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu
I’m a LIR for little over a year now so I have nothing to give back. Can you please ask the same question towards some companies that hold tens of millions of IP addresses ? Thanks — Petru Bunea / CEO suport@bunea.eu <mailto:suport@bunea.eu> / +40752481282 <tel:+40752481282> Bunea TELECOM / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT http://www.bunea.eu <http://www.bunea.eu/> / +40745495495 <tel:+40745495495>
On 15 Jan 2019, at 17:37, Lutz Donnerhacke <L.Donnerhacke@iks-service.de> wrote:
I’ve given back an unused /19 some years ago. How much space did you offer to the pool?
And BTW, I do not *own* any address.
Von: Bunea TELECOM <suport@bunea.eu <mailto:suport@bunea.eu>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Januar 2019 16:32 An: Lutz Donnerhacke <L.Donnerhacke@iks-service.de <mailto:L.Donnerhacke@iks-service.de>> Cc: Aleksey Bulgakov <aleksbulgakov@gmail.com <mailto:aleksbulgakov@gmail.com>>; members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] M&A procedure and transfers restrictions
You own 5.000 IPv4. How about you prove to us that you use ALL of them and the unused ones should be handed back to RIPE ?
Oh, you can’t work effectively with only a /22 ? Too bad, neither can we. —
<image001.jpg>
Petru Bunea / CEO suport@bunea.eu <mailto:suport@bunea.eu> / +40752481282 <tel:+40752481282> Bunea TELECOM / DATACENTER / APP DEVELOPMENT http://www.bunea.eu <http://www.bunea.eu/> / +40745495495 <tel:+40745495495>
On 15 Jan 2019, at 16:37, Lutz Donnerhacke <L.Donnerhacke@iks-service.de <mailto:L.Donnerhacke@iks-service.de>> wrote:
How about a simple solution: - The last/8 policy was designed to give each LIR only a single IPv4 resource in order to keep future LIRs in the game. - Therefore: All resources handed out under the last/8 policy can be hold only once by a single LIR. - If two LIRs merge and both have a /8 resource, they have to give back one of them. - A last/8 resource can’t be transferred to a LIR which already holds another last/8 resource. _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss <https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss> Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu <https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/suport%40bunea.eu>
* Aleksey Bulgakov <aleksbulgakov@gmail.com> [2019-01-15 15:18]:
5. So we have the transfer restriction period until January 2021 and the NCC can pay bonus (4200 EUR for 3 accounts) for it's executive board, stuffs etc.
Aleksey for the millionth time, the RIPE NCC is a NOT-FOR-PROFIT. The executive board is a HONORARY position with NO FINANCIAL REMUNERATION (they are not getting payed)! So stop your slander now. If it were me I would remove you from this mailing list right away as you're harassing the RIPE NCC and executive board with false accusations and you are acting in bad faith. Sebastian
Off course. The all additional payments spend for charity or return to members (about 100-200 euro for the next year). And the organization is enthusiastic))) There is no question about profit now. The question is about confusion between RIPE document and practice. If the NCC applies transfer for M&A procedure, it should merge accounts and don't keep additional account. If there is not transfer it should keep 24 months period from the date when the network was allocated from RIPE. Nothing more. вт, 15 янв. 2019 г. в 18:34, Sebastian Wiesinger <sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net>:
* Aleksey Bulgakov <aleksbulgakov@gmail.com> [2019-01-15 15:18]:
5. So we have the transfer restriction period until January 2021 and the NCC can pay bonus (4200 EUR for 3 accounts) for it's executive board, stuffs etc.
Aleksey for the millionth time, the RIPE NCC is a NOT-FOR-PROFIT. The executive board is a HONORARY position with NO FINANCIAL REMUNERATION (they are not getting payed)! So stop your slander now.
If it were me I would remove you from this mailing list right away as you're harassing the RIPE NCC and executive board with false accusations and you are acting in bad faith.
Sebastian
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-- ---------- Best regards, Alexey Bulgakov Tel.: +7 (926)690-87-29
Hi, On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 03:54:01PM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote:
[ complaints ]
The policy is working as intended. People like you that open new LIRs in large scale to get more than just one /22 "cheaply" - using up the remaining IPv4 space at RIPE NCC faster than planned, taking away space that is intended for *other* new comers - are exactly the reason why we have all this annoyance. So everybody who is unhappy with the current situation, please complain to Aleksey. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
Dear Gert. New owners can buy the resources on the market even the NCC's pool is empty. Please, don't dramatize. The resources aren't burn out like oil we just help to use them more consciously :) . It would be better to ask providers, who received the resources before 2012 and the most of them are agree with the RIPE policy. As for my question. I just want to understand, why during the M&A procedure one resources were the subject of the transfer (that cause restriction period prolongation and additional member's payments) others - not. вт, 15 янв. 2019 г. в 19:30, Gert Doering <gert@space.net>:
Hi,
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 03:54:01PM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote:
[ complaints ]
The policy is working as intended.
People like you that open new LIRs in large scale to get more than just one /22 "cheaply" - using up the remaining IPv4 space at RIPE NCC faster than planned, taking away space that is intended for *other* new comers - are exactly the reason why we have all this annoyance.
So everybody who is unhappy with the current situation, please complain to Aleksey.
Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
-- ---------- Best regards, Alexey Bulgakov Tel.: +7 (926)690-87-29
I agree with Gert. Anyway Aleksey, if you are unable to understand the rules, then I have nothing to say. I gave up. Regards: L. Angeli -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Aleksey Bulgakov Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2019 5:46 PM Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] M&A procedure and transfers restrictions Dear Gert. New owners can buy the resources on the market even the NCC's pool is empty. Please, don't dramatize. The resources aren't burn out like oil we just help to use them more consciously :) . It would be better to ask providers, who received the resources before 2012 and the most of them are agree with the RIPE policy. As for my question. I just want to understand, why during the M&A procedure one resources were the subject of the transfer (that cause restriction period prolongation and additional member's payments) others - not. вт, 15 янв. 2019 г. в 19:30, Gert Doering <gert@space.net>:
Hi,
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 03:54:01PM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote:
[ complaints ]
The policy is working as intended.
People like you that open new LIRs in large scale to get more than just one /22 "cheaply" - using up the remaining IPv4 space at RIPE NCC faster than planned, taking away space that is intended for *other* new comers - are exactly the reason why we have all this annoyance.
So everybody who is unhappy with the current situation, please complain to Aleksey.
Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
-- ---------- Best regards, Alexey Bulgakov Tel.: +7 (926)690-87-29 _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/langeli%40matracomp.h...
participants (6)
-
Aleksey Bulgakov -
Angeli László -
Bunea TELECOM -
Gert Doering -
Lutz Donnerhacke -
Sebastian Wiesinger