Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024
Simon, having read a multitude of e mails on this subject, there are a number of questions that as far as I can see have not been answered by the RIPE Management. It is clearly difficult as members to vote on the various options, one of which should be NO Change, without a full budget picture. On your opening statement you suggested that unless you review the charging scheme then your income would be significantly reduced. My assumption is that you have planned for this so: A. If there is NO CHANGE what do you expect your income to be. B. What reductions would you make to cut expenditure to this budget. i.e what goes and what stays. C. Can you take from your reserves to cover in the short term. What income would be derived from the 2 models shown and is this income significantly more than last year. Rather than members assuming and guessing at these figures it would be good to understand RIPE's actual calculated figures. We as members have probably closed our eyes and just allowed RIPE to undertake various spending, I think now the RIPE Management team really have to justify why and what they are spending this money on and how it benefits the members. Regards George Porter Integrated Network Services Ltd 01928 238390 07956592260 george.porter@in-services.co.uk Note. This email is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and email confirmation to the sender -----Original Message----- From: ncc-announce <ncc-announce-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Simon Jan Haytink Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 9:35 AM To: ncc-announce@ripe.net Subject: [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024 [You don't often get email from simon@ripe.net. Learn why this is important at https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ] Dear RIPE NCC members, We would like to re-open the consultation we began with the membership in 2021 on the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model, and we would like to carry out that consultation well in advance of the RIPE NCC General Meeting (GM) May 2023. In 2021, we presented on this topic at the GM, and we also surveyed our members and held an open house to get direct input on the charging scheme model that members would like to see implemented by the RIPE NCC. The outcome at that stage of the consultation was that there were strong cases made for both the current one-LIR, one-fee model and for a category-based model that would charge based on the number of resources held by a member. A strong case was also made to charge for all resources allocated or assigned by the RIPE NCC, including ASNs, and to charge a fee for transfers. The Executive Board decided to suspend the consultation in light of the war in Ukraine, but we are eager to decide on a way forward on this matter together with the membership. One of the main reasons that we would like to advance the discussion on the charging model is that we expect many members with multiple LIR accounts who received resources in 2021 to merge these accounts in the coming year. This means that the income the RIPE NCC receives will be reduced by a significant amount and we will need to ensure that our charging model allows us to collect the revenue required to maintain our operations. We believe that a category-based model would be best suited to cover this consolidation risk. Continuing with the existing model would mean that an increase in fees for all members would be required. Our ultimate goal is to arrive at a charging scheme model that will be sustainable for many years to come, meeting the needs of the RIPE NCC’s members. To help with discussion and to provide something tangible for members to assess, we are putting forward two draft models for members to review. These models can be summarised as: Model 1: A “one-LIR, one-fee” model based on the current RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2023 that also charges for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions. Model 2: A category-based model that charges per member (not per LIR account) and is based on resources registered and that also charges for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions. In order to allow members to form an opinion based on their own situation, we are providing an Excel sheet that will allow you to calculate the fees you would pay under each of the draft models. It is important to be aware that at this stage, the numbers assigned for each item are indicative and would be reviewed in light of the discussion with members. We plan to review these figures following consultation with the members, and giving input on those figures would greatly help to arrive at a good model. You can download the Excel sheet from: https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultations/mem... We also plan to hold another Open House meeting on the Charging Scheme in March to further discuss the charging scheme models. The Executive Board will then take the input and decide on one or more charging schemes for the membership to vote on at the GM to be held on 24 May 2023. The outcome of that vote will determine the charging scheme model to be used in the coming years. I ask that you provide your input on this important consultation on the Membership Discussion mailing list (members-discuss@ripe.net) by 26 April. Input provided up to this date will be considered by the Board when formulating the charging schemes to be proposed for the GM. Input after this date is of course also welcome although it might not be reflected in the schemes put forward to the membership at the GM. The consultation will also be recorded and available from: https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultations I look forward to your input. Kind regards, Simon Jan Haytink Finance Director RIPE NCC Summary 7 March: Start consultation with membership on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model 21 March: Open House to discuss charging scheme with membership 24 March: Executive Board meeting to discuss input received so far 12 April: Publication of Draft RIPE NCC Charging Schemes 2024 26 April: Publication of Final RIPE NCC Charging Schemes to be voted on by members 24 May: RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2023 References Open House and Survey Results https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-open-house-cha... Presentation at General Meeting https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/documentation...
Hello George & all on the list, I’d like to point you to the email from the Executive Board Treasurer, which covers the final charging scheme options that members will vote on: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-announce/2023-April/001645.html We are currently working on a longer reply to the list that will answer more of the questions and comments that were raised, but in the meantime to answer your specific questions: A. If there is NO CHANGE what do you expect your income to be. In the final charging schemes to be voted on, Option is D is the NO CHANGE vote. The projected income for option D is EUR 38 million. The reduction compared to Budget 2023 is due to the consolidation of multiple LIR accounts. The projected income from the other three models is also included in the email from our Treasurer. B. What reductions would you make to cut expenditure to this budget. i.e what goes and what stays? To start off, further improving our efficiency with regards to costs is always a focal point for the RIPE NCC. Looking at specific activities, we will not cut or add any activities without consulting with our members, as we are a membership association. This consultation takes place every year in the Autumn when we publish the draft Activity Plan and Budget. The final call on what to include in the final version of the Activity Plan lies with the Executive Board of the RIPE NCC. C. Can you take from your reserves to cover in the short term? As mentioned above, we operate within and according to the Activity Plan and Budget, which is approved by the Executive Board. If required and only with the approval of the Executive Board, we can use the reserves to cover any shortfall that may appear. Additionally, we have our redistribution policy, in which any excess funds or shortfall of funds can be redistributed to our members. This is subject to GM approval from the members. Also, I would like to point everybody to the Activity Plan and Budget 2023, where we detail and explain the plans for the year.: https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-786 Furthermore, I would like to point members to our published five-year strategy: https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-774 And please provide input when the RIPE NCC Survey 2023 launches later this month - this is a very effective way to provide feedback to the RIPE NCC on its services. We’ll be launching the survey at RIPE 86 on 24 May. Kind regards, Simon Jan Haytink RIPE NCC On 03/05/2023 16:39, George Porter wrote:
Simon, having read a multitude of e mails on this subject, there are a number of questions that as far as I can see have not been answered by the RIPE Management. It is clearly difficult as members to vote on the various options, one of which should be NO Change, without a full budget picture. On your opening statement you suggested that unless you review the charging scheme then your income would be significantly reduced. My assumption is that you have planned for this so:
A. If there is NO CHANGE what do you expect your income to be.
B. What reductions would you make to cut expenditure to this budget. i.e what goes and what stays.
C. Can you take from your reserves to cover in the short term.
What income would be derived from the 2 models shown and is this income significantly more than last year.
Rather than members assuming and guessing at these figures it would be good to understand RIPE's actual calculated figures.
We as members have probably closed our eyes and just allowed RIPE to undertake various spending, I think now the RIPE Management team really have to justify why and what they are spending this money on and how it benefits the members.
Regards
George Porter Integrated Network Services Ltd 01928 238390 07956592260 george.porter@in-services.co.uk
Note. This email is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and email confirmation to the sender
-----Original Message----- From: ncc-announce <ncc-announce-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Simon Jan Haytink Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 9:35 AM To: ncc-announce@ripe.net Subject: [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024
[You don't often get email from simon@ripe.net. Learn why this is important at https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ]
Dear RIPE NCC members,
We would like to re-open the consultation we began with the membership in 2021 on the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model, and we would like to carry out that consultation well in advance of the RIPE NCC General Meeting (GM) May 2023.
In 2021, we presented on this topic at the GM, and we also surveyed our members and held an open house to get direct input on the charging scheme model that members would like to see implemented by the RIPE NCC. The outcome at that stage of the consultation was that there were strong cases made for both the current one-LIR, one-fee model and for a category-based model that would charge based on the number of resources held by a member. A strong case was also made to charge for all resources allocated or assigned by the RIPE NCC, including ASNs, and to charge a fee for transfers.
The Executive Board decided to suspend the consultation in light of the war in Ukraine, but we are eager to decide on a way forward on this matter together with the membership.
One of the main reasons that we would like to advance the discussion on the charging model is that we expect many members with multiple LIR accounts who received resources in 2021 to merge these accounts in the coming year. This means that the income the RIPE NCC receives will be reduced by a significant amount and we will need to ensure that our charging model allows us to collect the revenue required to maintain our operations. We believe that a category-based model would be best suited to cover this consolidation risk. Continuing with the existing model would mean that an increase in fees for all members would be required. Our ultimate goal is to arrive at a charging scheme model that will be sustainable for many years to come, meeting the needs of the RIPE NCC’s members.
To help with discussion and to provide something tangible for members to assess, we are putting forward two draft models for members to review. These models can be summarised as:
Model 1: A “one-LIR, one-fee” model based on the current RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2023 that also charges for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions.
Model 2: A category-based model that charges per member (not per LIR account) and is based on resources registered and that also charges for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions.
In order to allow members to form an opinion based on their own situation, we are providing an Excel sheet that will allow you to calculate the fees you would pay under each of the draft models. It is important to be aware that at this stage, the numbers assigned for each item are indicative and would be reviewed in light of the discussion with members. We plan to review these figures following consultation with the members, and giving input on those figures would greatly help to arrive at a good model.
You can download the Excel sheet from: https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultations/mem...
We also plan to hold another Open House meeting on the Charging Scheme in March to further discuss the charging scheme models. The Executive Board will then take the input and decide on one or more charging schemes for the membership to vote on at the GM to be held on 24 May 2023. The outcome of that vote will determine the charging scheme model to be used in the coming years.
I ask that you provide your input on this important consultation on the Membership Discussion mailing list (members-discuss@ripe.net) by 26 April. Input provided up to this date will be considered by the Board when formulating the charging schemes to be proposed for the GM. Input after this date is of course also welcome although it might not be reflected in the schemes put forward to the membership at the GM.
The consultation will also be recorded and available from: https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultations
I look forward to your input.
Kind regards,
Simon Jan Haytink Finance Director RIPE NCC
Summary
7 March: Start consultation with membership on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model 21 March: Open House to discuss charging scheme with membership 24 March: Executive Board meeting to discuss input received so far 12 April: Publication of Draft RIPE NCC Charging Schemes 2024 26 April: Publication of Final RIPE NCC Charging Schemes to be voted on by members 24 May: RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2023
References
Open House and Survey Results https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-open-house-cha...
Presentation at General Meeting https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/documentation...
On 3. May 2023, at 16:39, George Porter <george.porter@in-services.co.uk> wrote:
Simon, having read a multitude of e mails on this subject, there are a number of questions that as far as I can see have not been answered by the RIPE Management. It is clearly difficult as members to vote on the various options, one of which should be NO Change, without a full budget picture. On your opening statement you suggested that unless you review the charging scheme then your income would be significantly reduced. My assumption is that you have planned for this so:
Just FYI, there is a no change option: - Model D: Continuation of the “one LIR, one fee” model that is exactly the same as the 2023 model (projected income: EUR 38M) Regards Sebastian -- Sebastian Wiesinger Senior Principal Network Architect Service Integration noris network AG Thomas-Mann-Straße 16-20 90471 Nürnberg Deutschland Tel +49 911 9352 1459 Fax +49 911 9352 100 Email sebastian.wiesinger@noris.de noris network AG - Mehr Leistung als Standard Vorstand: Ingo Kraupa (Vorsitzender), Joachim Astel, Florian Sippel Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Stefan Schnabel - AG Nürnberg HRB 17689
participants (3)
-
George Porter -
Sebastian Wiesinger -
Simon-Jan Haytink