Hi Alvaro, I’ve got a question about this (as I honestly don’t know). Do people care about “secure”? I agree that it’s important to offer learning opportunities because it helps us all, but is RIPE a school that offers some state approved certificates or something? If not, why do we need tests at all and especially some testing methology that can be so privacy invasive? I think it benefits us all to offer learning opportunities to everyone (not just members) because mistakes others make create work for us. But I’m not sure what the benefit of competing with commercial training vendors (who make their money by providing certificates) is to us. Mit freundlichen Grüßen Andreas Grabmüller QuarIT GmbH \\ Jägerstraße 19 \\ 83308 Trostberg \\ Deutschland a.grabmueller@quarit.de \\ www.quaritec.de \\ Telefon: +49 8621 994900-0 \\ Telefax: +49 8621 994900-9 Amtsgericht Traunstein: HRB 23872 \\ Sitz: Trostberg \\ Geschäftsführer: Andreas Grabmüller \\ Ust.-ID: DE297594275 Allgemeine Geschäftsbedingungen: http://www.quaritec.de/agb \\ Aktuelle Preisliste: http://www.quaritec.de/preise Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Im Auftrag von Alvaro Vives Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Mai 2023 10:44 An: members-discuss@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] [news] RIPE NCC Certified Professionals is Back Online Dear Thomas, There are a few dozen remote exam providers, who in turn rely on a much smaller number of proctoring companies like Proctorio. So there are alternatives, but the list quickly shrinks once you apply the kinds of requirements we have, and once we review the various legal (GDPR) and security aspects. We chose the service that provided the best experience, that was in line with our internal procedures, and which allowed us to avoid overly intrusive or absurd requirements. For Certified Professionals, we’re only using one of Proctorio’s services, the ‘record and review’ service. Further, only select RIPE NCC staff can access recordings, for a limited duration, and under specific circumstances. You are asking if Proctorio is the kind of company that the RIPE NCC should engage with. We agree that the behaviour described in the articles you’ve shared is distasteful, but we also need to be realistic about our situation: we want to offer a quality exam experience that is secure, legally compliant, and meets the needs of our members. Ultimately, we want candidate’s experience of the new system to guide our decisions. However, we will continue to monitor developments concerning Proctorio, as well as feedback on the service that we are using. Kind regards, Alvaro Vives Team Manager Learning and Development On 19 May 2023, at 17:15, Thomas Schweizer-Bolzonello via members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> > wrote: Hello, I am reacting to the recent news email about RIPE NCC training/certifications. I wish to know who at RIPE thought it was the best choice to select such a company engaged in multiple lawsuits to proctor the RIPE exams? Am I the only one concerned about this, weren't there other more appropriate solutions to keep the RIPE certification exams appropriately monitored for fair play and fair examinations? [1] https://news.slashdot.org/story/20/11/06/0011221/proctoring-software-company... [2] https://twitter.com/ejohnson99/status/1303121786637373443 Best regards, Thomas ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Alvaro Vives <avives@ripe.net <mailto:avives@ripe.net> > Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 at 17:35 Subject: [ncc-announce] [news] RIPE NCC Certified Professionals is Back Online To: <ncc-announce@ripe.net <mailto:ncc-announce@ripe.net> > Dear colleagues, I’m very pleased to report that RIPE NCC Certified Professionals is back online! We took a hiatus for a few weeks to transition to a new exam platform. I would also like to thank all the RIPE community members who helped us test this new system, for not only taking the exam but also for sharing your feedback with us. Here are some of the biggest changes that we’ve made: - You no longer need to schedule exams in advance - you can take an exam on demand. - We now use the services of Better Examinations, a Europe-based exam provider. - Exams are no longer “live proctored” but use a record and review system instead. This system uses Proctorio, and it’s important to note that the exam recordings are accessible only to select RIPE NCC staff, and for a limited duration. Test takers are also no longer obliged to scan the room before taking exams. - You are no longer obliged to use government-issued identification cards to register for the exam - any photo ID will do. We look for a match between the name and photo on the ID document with the test taker. - We can introduce more interactive questions in the exams, as the new platform offers greater flexibility. - There are no longer any geographic restrictions on accessing the exam platform. We’ve published a more detailed article on RIPE Labs on what these changes involve: https://labs.ripe.net/author/william-johnson/get-certified-20-introducing-th... For those of you who have been waiting to get certified, I invite you to claim your vouchers and try out our new exam system. Your new vouchers for 2023 are now available and valid until the end of this year! https://getcertified.ripe.net/ Best of luck to those of you who have scheduled exams at RIPE 86, or who plan to take exams soon (and yes we have t-shirts if you get certified). Kind regards, Alvaro Vives Team Manager Learning and Development _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/avives%40ripe.net

Hi Andreas, Apologies for the delayed response. I’ll do my best to answer your questions: Why do we do tests? Certifications validate people’s knowledge and can reward the effort they have put into learning. We have received a lot of requests from attendees at our training courses over the years asking for some way to certify the skills they had gained. This was further apparent in our 2019 survey, where 52% of respondents said they thought certifications would add value. On our side, we wanted to make sure that any certifications we offered would be credible, and for this they have to be reasonably secure. We have issued nearly 2,500 certifications already, which indicates a significant level of interest, and feedback from learners is that they provide a strong incentive to complete our learning activities (our data also confirms this). What about privacy and security? An online exam system requires a certain level of security so that you can trust the certifications that we issue. Regarding privacy, we’re trying to minimise the level of intrusion and data collected, and we think our current approach is reasonable. For example, we no longer use a live proctor and we do not ask for a room scan. The exam recording is only accessible to select RIPE NCC staff under specific circumstances, and we delete the recordings after thirty days. It’s also possible to take an exam in person at select RIPE NCC events, which avoids the need for a recording altogether. Are we competing with commercial training vendors? We discussed this with our members and the RIPE community prior to launching our certifications, some of whom work for the vendors who provide these certifications. We do not see ourselves as competing with commercial vendors, but rather as complementing their certifications. Our focus is on vendor-neutral knowledge, RFCs, and areas that the RIPE NCC has expertise in and offers training on. We are in a privileged position to share knowledge and experiences from a neutral perspective and based on information we have about the Internet’s infrastructure, and to draw from the community’s experiences. I hope this answers your questions and helps to shed some light on the discussions we have had in the past. Kind regards, Alvaro Vives Team Manager Learning and Development

On 25 May 2023, at 16:45, Andreas Grabmüller | QuarIT GmbH <a.grabmueller@quarit.de> wrote:

Hi Alvaro,

I’ve got a question about this (as I honestly don’t know). Do people care about “secure”? I agree that it’s important to offer learning opportunities because it helps us all, but is RIPE a school that offers some state approved certificates or something? If not, why do we need tests at all and especially some testing methology that can be so privacy invasive?

I think it benefits us all to offer learning opportunities to everyone (not just members) because mistakes others make create work for us. But I’m not sure what the benefit of competing with commercial training vendors (who make their money by providing certificates) is to us.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Andreas Grabmüller <image002.jpg>

QuarIT GmbH \\ Jägerstraße 19 \\ 83308 Trostberg \\ Deutschland a.grabmueller@quarit.de <mailto:a.grabmueller@quarit.de> \\ www.quaritec.de <http://www.quaritec.de/> \\ Telefon: +49 8621 994900-0 \\ Telefax: +49 8621 994900-9 Amtsgericht Traunstein: HRB 23872 \\ Sitz: Trostberg \\ Geschäftsführer: Andreas Grabmüller \\ Ust.-ID: DE297594275 Allgemeine Geschäftsbedingungen: http://www.quaritec.de/agb \\ Aktuelle Preisliste: http://www.quaritec.de/preise

Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> Im Auftrag von Alvaro Vives Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Mai 2023 10:44 An: members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] [news] RIPE NCC Certified Professionals is Back Online

Dear Thomas,

There are a few dozen remote exam providers, who in turn rely on a much smaller number of proctoring companies like Proctorio. So there are alternatives, but the list quickly shrinks once you apply the kinds of requirements we have, and once we review the various legal (GDPR) and security aspects. We chose the service that provided the best experience, that was in line with our internal procedures, and which allowed us to avoid overly intrusive or absurd requirements. For Certified Professionals, we’re only using one of Proctorio’s services, the ‘record and review’ service. Further, only select RIPE NCC staff can access recordings, for a limited duration, and under specific circumstances.

You are asking if Proctorio is the kind of company that the RIPE NCC should engage with. We agree that the behaviour described in the articles you’ve shared is distasteful, but we also need to be realistic about our situation: we want to offer a quality exam experience that is secure, legally compliant, and meets the needs of our members. Ultimately, we want candidate’s experience of the new system to guide our decisions. However, we will continue to monitor developments concerning Proctorio, as well as feedback on the service that we are using.

Kind regards,

Alvaro Vives Team Manager Learning and Development

...

On 19 May 2023, at 17:15, Thomas Schweizer-Bolzonello via members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>> wrote:

Hello, I am reacting to the recent news email about RIPE NCC training/certifications.

I wish to know who at RIPE thought it was the best choice to select such a company engaged in multiple lawsuits to proctor the RIPE exams? Am I the only one concerned about this, weren't there other more appropriate solutions to keep the RIPE certification exams appropriately monitored for fair play and fair examinations?

[1] https://news.slashdot.org/story/20/11/06/0011221/proctoring-software-company... [2] https://twitter.com/ejohnson99/status/1303121786637373443

Best regards, Thomas

---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Alvaro Vives <avives@ripe.net <mailto:avives@ripe.net>> Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 at 17:35 Subject: [ncc-announce] [news] RIPE NCC Certified Professionals is Back Online To: <ncc-announce@ripe.net <mailto:ncc-announce@ripe.net>>

Dear colleagues,

I’m very pleased to report that RIPE NCC Certified Professionals is back online! We took a hiatus for a few weeks to transition to a new exam platform. I would also like to thank all the RIPE community members who helped us test this new system, for not only taking the exam but also for sharing your feedback with us.

Here are some of the biggest changes that we’ve made: - You no longer need to schedule exams in advance - you can take an exam on demand. - We now use the services of Better Examinations, a Europe-based exam provider. - Exams are no longer “live proctored” but use a record and review system instead. This system uses Proctorio, and it’s important to note that the exam recordings are accessible only to select RIPE NCC staff, and for a limited duration. Test takers are also no longer obliged to scan the room before taking exams. - You are no longer obliged to use government-issued identification cards to register for the exam - any photo ID will do. We look for a match between the name and photo on the ID document with the test taker. - We can introduce more interactive questions in the exams, as the new platform offers greater flexibility. - There are no longer any geographic restrictions on accessing the exam platform.

We’ve published a more detailed article on RIPE Labs on what these changes involve: https://labs.ripe.net/author/william-johnson/get-certified-20-introducing-th...

For those of you who have been waiting to get certified, I invite you to claim your vouchers and try out our new exam system. Your new vouchers for 2023 are now available and valid until the end of this year! https://getcertified.ripe.net/

Best of luck to those of you who have scheduled exams at RIPE 86, or who plan to take exams soon (and yes we have t-shirts if you get certified).

Kind regards,

Alvaro Vives Team Manager Learning and Development

_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/avives%40ripe.net