Re: Charging Scheme Task Force Meeting Minutes (24 February 2025)
Hi, Karla, all – Karla wrote:
The RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Task Force held a meeting on 24 February and the minutes are now available at:
As a member, I take a keen interest in the work of the NCC Charging Scheme Task Force 2024. However, I find the latest meeting minutes difficult to follow, particularly given that, according to the Task Force webpage [0], the group should now be well in the phase of finalising recommendations for the Executive Board (February–May 2025). The minutes do not set out a clear list of decisions or actions, nor do they indicate that the Task Force is maintaining a register of risks associated with its recommendations, something I would expect, even if not explicitly mandated. From the minutes, it appears that the group has agreed to recommend: o The disaggregation of membership and service fees; o The introduction of transfer fees; and o A shift to charging per membership group rather than per individual LIR. Is this the full set of recommendations? The December minutes mention a draft report, yet I have been unable to locate a copy. Moreover, the minutes suggest that, at this late stage, the Task Force has not reached consensus on several key issues. The debate over tiered transfer fees remains unresolved, particularly concerning transfers requiring additional due diligence and the treatment of legacy holders. There was broad agreement that M&A transfers should be treated as policy transfers, yet a separate flat-rate fee for M&As was proposed to account for cases such as university mergers. This seems inconsistent. If M&As are to be treated as policy transfers, why should they be subject to a different fee structure? Could you clarify: o What decisions have been made? o What actions remain outstanding? o What risks have been identified and considered? I look forward to your response, and I thank you for your continued effort on this important topic. Best, Andy Davidson ( AJBD-RIPE // uk.ask4internet ) [0] https://www.ripe.net/membership/mail/member-and-community-consultations/char... This email and its contents may be confidential. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient. The contents of this email may not be disclosed to, or used by, anyone other than the intended recipient, or stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately. ASK4 Ltd. Registered in England & Wales with company number 3980594. Registered Address: Devonshire Green House, 14 Fitzwilliam Street, Sheffield, S1 4JL. ASK4 Ltd is part of the ASK4 Group which operates in Europe through various local branches and/or separate and distinct legal entities.
Hi Andy, Thank you for your mail and follow-up questions. The Charging Scheme timeline indicated that the group would send recommendations to the Board in February-May. This is on schedule and the task force expects to publish its draft report including principles in the coming weeks. They would like to get feedback from the members on the principles it proposes before deciding on a final report to be sent to the Executive Board. The timeline also indicated that the findings will be reported at the General Meeting May 2025, and the group are planning to present at that meeting. Indeed, there are still open discussions on several topics, such as transfer fees and legacy holder treatment, and the minutes are intended to let the members know how those discussions are progressing. The focus of the group has been on getting things right and carrying out data-based assessments rather than on rushing to make final recommendations. One of the benefits of having a diverse set of task force members is that a wide range of views are put forward, but this does result in longer discussions on many complex topics. On the risks associated with the recommendations, these will be fully assessed. The task force will arrive first at draft principles, which will be refined based on member feedback, and we can better assess risk once we can understand how those principles might apply to an actual charging scheme. But the point is well made and we will make sure to carry out that work. Thank you for engaging with the topic. The task force is taking a careful, deliberate approach and we will provide an update when the draft report is published so members can provide input and feedback before the task force finalises the report for the Executive Board. Best regards, Karla Karla Liddle-White Senior Communications Officer RIPE NCC On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 at 16:11, Andy Davidson <Andy.Davidson@ask4.com> wrote:
Hi, Karla, all –
Karla wrote:
The RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Task
Force held a meeting on 24 February
and the minutes are now available at:
As a member, I take a keen interest in the work of the NCC Charging Scheme Task Force 2024. However, I find the latest meeting minutes difficult to follow, particularly given that, according to the Task Force webpage [0], the group should now be well in the phase of finalising recommendations for the Executive Board (February–May 2025). The minutes do not set out a clear list of decisions or actions, nor do they indicate that the Task Force is maintaining a register of risks associated with its recommendations, something I would expect, even if not explicitly mandated.
From the minutes, it appears that the group has agreed to recommend:
o The disaggregation of membership and service fees;
o The introduction of transfer fees; and
o A shift to charging per membership group rather than per individual LIR.
Is this the full set of recommendations? The December minutes mention a draft report, yet I have been unable to locate a copy.
Moreover, the minutes suggest that, at this late stage, the Task Force has not reached consensus on several key issues. The debate over tiered transfer fees remains unresolved, particularly concerning transfers requiring additional due diligence and the treatment of legacy holders. There was broad agreement that M&A transfers should be treated as policy transfers, yet a separate flat-rate fee for M&As was proposed to account for cases such as university mergers. This seems inconsistent. If M&As are to be treated as policy transfers, why should they be subject to a different fee structure?
Could you clarify:
o What decisions have been made?
o What actions remain outstanding?
o What risks have been identified and considered?
I look forward to your response, and I thank you for your continued effort on this important topic.
Best,
Andy Davidson
( AJBD-RIPE // uk.ask4internet )
[0] https://www.ripe.net/membership/mail/member-and-community-consultations/char...
This email and its contents may be confidential. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient. The contents of this email may not be disclosed to, or used by, anyone other than the intended recipient, or stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately. ASK4 Ltd. Registered in England & Wales with company number 3980594. Registered Address: Devonshire Green House, 14 Fitzwilliam Street, Sheffield, S1 4JL. ASK4 Ltd is part of the ASK4 Group which operates in Europe through various local branches and/or separate and distinct legal entities.
Wonderful! Hopefully, something else will be offered besides price increases and category schemes. So. It sometime should finally time to start discussing a flat payment system for scarce Ipv4 resources. Serbulov Dmitry.
Hi Andy,
Thank you for your mail and follow-up questions. The Charging Scheme timeline indicated that the group would send recommendations to the Board in February-May. This is on schedule and the task force expects to publish its draft report including principles in the coming weeks. They would like to get feedback from the members on the principles it proposes before deciding on a final report to be sent to the Executive Board.
The timeline also indicated that the findings will be reported at the General Meeting May 2025, and the group are planning to present at that meeting.
Indeed, there are still open discussions on several topics, such as transfer fees and legacy holder treatment, and the minutes are intended to let the members know how those discussions are progressing. The focus of the group has been on getting things right and carrying out data-based assessments rather than on rushing to make final recommendations. One of the benefits of having a diverse set of task force members is that a wide range of views are put forward, but this does result in longer discussions on many complex topics.
On the risks associated with the recommendations, these will be fully assessed. The task force will arrive first at draft principles, which will be refined based on member feedback, and we can better assess risk once we can understand how those principles might apply to an actual charging scheme. But the point is well made and we will make sure to carry out that work.
Thank you for engaging with the topic. The task force is taking a careful, deliberate approach and we will provide an update when the draft report is published so members can provide input and feedback before the task force finalises the report for the Executive Board.
Best regards, Karla
Karla Liddle-White Senior Communications Officer RIPE NCC
On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 at 16:11, Andy Davidson <Andy.Davidson@ask4.com> wrote:
Hi, Karla, all –
Karla wrote:
The RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Task
Force held a meeting on 24 February
and the minutes are now available at:
As a member, I take a keen interest in the work of the NCC Charging Scheme Task Force 2024. However, I find the latest meeting minutes difficult to follow, particularly given that, according to the Task Force webpage [0], the group should now be well in the phase of finalising recommendations for the Executive Board (February–May 2025). The minutes do not set out a clear list of decisions or actions, nor do they indicate that the Task Force is maintaining a register of risks associated with its recommendations, something I would expect, even if not explicitly mandated.
From the minutes, it appears that the group has agreed to recommend:
o The disaggregation of membership and service fees;
o The introduction of transfer fees; and
o A shift to charging per membership group rather than per individual LIR.
Is this the full set of recommendations? The December minutes mention a draft report, yet I have been unable to locate a copy.
Moreover, the minutes suggest that, at this late stage, the Task Force has not reached consensus on several key issues. The debate over tiered transfer fees remains unresolved, particularly concerning transfers requiring additional due diligence and the treatment of legacy holders. There was broad agreement that M&A transfers should be treated as policy transfers, yet a separate flat-rate fee for M&As was proposed to account for cases such as university mergers. This seems inconsistent. If M&As are to be treated as policy transfers, why should they be subject to a different fee structure?
Could you clarify:
o What decisions have been made?
o What actions remain outstanding?
o What risks have been identified and considered?
I look forward to your response, and I thank you for your continued effort on this important topic.
Best,
Andy Davidson
( AJBD-RIPE // uk.ask4internet )
[0] https://www.ripe.net/membership/mail/member-and-community-consultations/char...
This email and its contents may be confidential. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient. The contents of this email may not be disclosed to, or used by, anyone other than the intended recipient, or stored or copied in any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately. ASK4 Ltd. Registered in England & Wales with company number 3980594. Registered Address: Devonshire Green House, 14 Fitzwilliam Street, Sheffield, S1 4JL. ASK4 Ltd is part of the ASK4 Group which operates in Europe through various local branches and/or separate and distinct legal entities.
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Hi, On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 07:54:35PM +0300, sdy@a-n-t.ru wrote:
So. It sometime should finally time to start discussing a flat payment system for scarce Ipv4 resources.
Repeating this again and again does not seem to make it more attractive. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Ingo Lalla, Karin Schuler, Sebastian Cler Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
participants (4)
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Andy Davidson -
Gert Doering -
Karla Liddle-White -
sdy＠a-n-t.ru