Re: [members-discuss] Discuss Charging Scheme 2010
On 19-6-2009 12:34, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
(before we registered our first PI block I even called and asked them if PROVIDER INDEPENDANT space would not cause recurring fees for us, and they said no. (besides the showing up in the billing score for a short time, which ofcourse is calculated into our one-time administration fee.)
The RIPE example contract(1) for the 2007-01 policy indicated there should be a periodic maintenance fee under section 4.2. At the last RIPE meeting there were questions asked about the amount that a LIR should ask for this fee, but no concrete answers were given. The new (draft) charging scheme indicates an amount of 50eur/year, but all our new 2007-01 PI space with contracts have a lower maintenance fee amount. It would have been a lot less complicated if this was discussed and all clear before the new PI policy 2007-01 was accepted. (1) http://www.ripe.net/membership/lir-end-user-agreement.html With kind regards, Michiel Klaver BA.ict GrafiX Internet B.V. Stationsplein 20 2907 MJ Capelle aan den IJssel The Netherlands Web: http://grafix.nl/ Tel: +31-(0)10-2640210 Fax: +31-(0)10-2640211 Providing high-end professional internet services at our privately owned net-neutral in-house Data Center Facilities in Capelle aan den IJssel and Alphen aan den Rijn. Connected at TeleCityRedbus2 (Amsterdam) and Spaanse Kubus (Rotterdam).
Michiel Klaver wrote:
On 19-6-2009 12:34, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
(before we registered our first PI block I even called and asked them if PROVIDER INDEPENDANT space would not cause recurring fees for us, and they said no. (besides the showing up in the billing score for a short time, which ofcourse is calculated into our one-time administration fee.)
The RIPE example contract(1) for the 2007-01 policy indicated there should be a periodic maintenance fee under section 4.2. At the last RIPE meeting there were questions asked about the amount that a LIR should ask for this fee, but no concrete answers were given.
The new (draft) charging scheme indicates an amount of 50eur/year, but all our new 2007-01 PI space with contracts have a lower maintenance fee amount. It would have been a lot less complicated if this was discussed and all clear before the new PI policy 2007-01 was accepted.
(1) http://www.ripe.net/membership/lir-end-user-agreement.html
The examples at the GM given were 50 EUR/year, 100 EUR/year and something else. I think that gave enough indication, of where they were proposing to go. Kind regards, Martin List-Petersen -- Airwire - Ag Nascadh Pobail an Iarthair http://www.airwire.ie Phone: 091-865 968
On 19-6-2009 13:55, Martin List-Petersen wrote:
The RIPE example contract(1) for the 2007-01 policy indicated there should be a periodic maintenance fee under section 4.2. At the last RIPE meeting there were questions asked about the amount that a LIR should ask for this fee, but no concrete answers were given.
The new (draft) charging scheme indicates an amount of 50eur/year, but all our new 2007-01 PI space with contracts have a lower maintenance fee amount. It would have been a lot less complicated if this was discussed and all clear before the new PI policy 2007-01 was accepted.
(1) http://www.ripe.net/membership/lir-end-user-agreement.html
The examples at the GM given were 50 EUR/year, 100 EUR/year and something else. I think that gave enough indication, of where they were proposing to go.
Kind regards, Martin List-Petersen
Those were examples/indications at the GM held at 6th of May 2009, while the PI policy 2007-01 is in effect since 3rd of March 2009. And even now the charging scheme for 2010 is still a draft, it should have been final at the introduction of PI policy 2007-01 at 3rd of March. With kind regards, Michiel Klaver BA.ict GrafiX Internet B.V. Stationsplein 20 2907 MJ Capelle aan den IJssel The Netherlands Web: http://grafix.nl/ Tel: +31-(0)10-2640210 Fax: +31-(0)10-2640211 Providing high-end professional internet services at our privately owned net-neutral in-house Data Center Facilities in Capelle aan den IJssel and Alphen aan den Rijn. Connected at TeleCityRedbus2 (Amsterdam) and Spaanse Kubus (Rotterdam).
Michiel Klaver wrote:
On 19-6-2009 13:55, Martin List-Petersen wrote:
The RIPE example contract(1) for the 2007-01 policy indicated there should be a periodic maintenance fee under section 4.2. At the last RIPE meeting there were questions asked about the amount that a LIR should ask for this fee, but no concrete answers were given.
The new (draft) charging scheme indicates an amount of 50eur/year, but all our new 2007-01 PI space with contracts have a lower maintenance fee amount. It would have been a lot less complicated if this was discussed and all clear before the new PI policy 2007-01 was accepted.
(1) http://www.ripe.net/membership/lir-end-user-agreement.html
The examples at the GM given were 50 EUR/year, 100 EUR/year and something else. I think that gave enough indication, of where they were proposing to go.
Kind regards, Martin List-Petersen
Those were examples/indications at the GM held at 6th of May 2009, while the PI policy 2007-01 is in effect since 3rd of March 2009. And even now the charging scheme for 2010 is still a draft, it should have been final at the introduction of PI policy 2007-01 at 3rd of March.
It is. As for now, it's part of your score. And next year, it may change as with all kind of pricing, as what this proposal is about. It changes the current charging on your score for the charging by a fixed 50 EUR/year fee per prefix. So, when you drew up your contracts after March 2009, you had to calculate what the effective cost was based on the charging score and anticipate, that the fee could change in the future. Where's the problem ? Kind regards, Martin List-Petersen -- Airwire - Ag Nascadh Pobail an Iarthair http://www.airwire.ie Phone: 091-865 968
fact remains, the regulation of internet addresses by ripe and the outsource of such power is a "courtesy" rahter than actual "law". should any of our clients prefixes be deleted if they refuse to pay, we shall just continue to announce them. -- Sven Olaf Kamphuis CB3ROB DataServices Phone: +31/87-8747479 Skype: CB3ROB MSN: sven@cb3rob.net C.V.: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cb3rob Confidential: Please be advised that the information contained in this email message, including all attached documents or files, is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or individuals addressed. Any other use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. On Fri, 19 Jun 2009, Michiel Klaver wrote:
On 19-6-2009 13:55, Martin List-Petersen wrote:
The RIPE example contract(1) for the 2007-01 policy indicated there should be a periodic maintenance fee under section 4.2. At the last RIPE meeting there were questions asked about the amount that a LIR should ask for this fee, but no concrete answers were given.
The new (draft) charging scheme indicates an amount of 50eur/year, but all our new 2007-01 PI space with contracts have a lower maintenance fee amount. It would have been a lot less complicated if this was discussed and all clear before the new PI policy 2007-01 was accepted.
(1) http://www.ripe.net/membership/lir-end-user-agreement.html
The examples at the GM given were 50 EUR/year, 100 EUR/year and something else. I think that gave enough indication, of where they were proposing to go.
Kind regards, Martin List-Petersen
Those were examples/indications at the GM held at 6th of May 2009, while the PI policy 2007-01 is in effect since 3rd of March 2009. And even now the charging scheme for 2010 is still a draft, it should have been final at the introduction of PI policy 2007-01 at 3rd of March.
With kind regards,
Michiel Klaver BA.ict GrafiX Internet B.V.
Stationsplein 20 2907 MJ Capelle aan den IJssel The Netherlands
Web: http://grafix.nl/ Tel: +31-(0)10-2640210 Fax: +31-(0)10-2640211
Providing high-end professional internet services at our privately owned net-neutral in-house Data Center Facilities in Capelle aan den IJssel and Alphen aan den Rijn. Connected at TeleCityRedbus2 (Amsterdam) and Spaanse Kubus (Rotterdam).
X-CONTACT-FILTER-MATCH: "grafix" X-CONTACT-FILTER-MATCH: "grafix.nl" X-CONTACT-FILTER-MATCH: "ripe.net"
not that i consider it likely that any of them refuse to pay as some of them already shitted their pants and asked us for new contracts that cover recurring fees, but it's just plainly -wrong- to force existing allocations to enter into new contracts. -- Sven Olaf Kamphuis CB3ROB DataServices Phone: +31/87-8747479 Skype: CB3ROB MSN: sven@cb3rob.net C.V.: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cb3rob Confidential: Please be advised that the information contained in this email message, including all attached documents or files, is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or individuals addressed. Any other use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. On Fri, 19 Jun 2009, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
fact remains, the regulation of internet addresses by ripe and the outsource of such power is a "courtesy" rahter than actual "law".
should any of our clients prefixes be deleted if they refuse to pay, we shall just continue to announce them.
--
Sven Olaf Kamphuis CB3ROB DataServices
Phone: +31/87-8747479 Skype: CB3ROB MSN: sven@cb3rob.net C.V.: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cb3rob
Confidential: Please be advised that the information contained in this email message, including all attached documents or files, is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or individuals addressed. Any other use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
On Fri, 19 Jun 2009, Michiel Klaver wrote:
On 19-6-2009 13:55, Martin List-Petersen wrote:
The RIPE example contract(1) for the 2007-01 policy indicated there should be a periodic maintenance fee under section 4.2. At the last RIPE meeting there were questions asked about the amount that a LIR should ask for this fee, but no concrete answers were given.
The new (draft) charging scheme indicates an amount of 50eur/year, but all our new 2007-01 PI space with contracts have a lower maintenance fee amount. It would have been a lot less complicated if this was discussed and all clear before the new PI policy 2007-01 was accepted.
(1) http://www.ripe.net/membership/lir-end-user-agreement.html
The examples at the GM given were 50 EUR/year, 100 EUR/year and something else. I think that gave enough indication, of where they were proposing to go.
Kind regards, Martin List-Petersen
Those were examples/indications at the GM held at 6th of May 2009, while the PI policy 2007-01 is in effect since 3rd of March 2009. And even now the charging scheme for 2010 is still a draft, it should have been final at the introduction of PI policy 2007-01 at 3rd of March.
With kind regards,
Michiel Klaver BA.ict GrafiX Internet B.V.
Stationsplein 20 2907 MJ Capelle aan den IJssel The Netherlands
Web: http://grafix.nl/ Tel: +31-(0)10-2640210 Fax: +31-(0)10-2640211
Providing high-end professional internet services at our privately owned net-neutral in-house Data Center Facilities in Capelle aan den IJssel and Alphen aan den Rijn. Connected at TeleCityRedbus2 (Amsterdam) and Spaanse Kubus (Rotterdam).
X-CONTACT-FILTER-MATCH: "grafix" X-CONTACT-FILTER-MATCH: "grafix.nl" X-CONTACT-FILTER-MATCH: "ripe.net"
X-CONTACT-FILTER-MATCH: "grafix" X-CONTACT-FILTER-MATCH: "grafix.nl" X-CONTACT-FILTER-MATCH: "linkedin.com" X-CONTACT-FILTER-MATCH: "ripe.net"
Oh, you just released TheBiggestSecret of the RIPE NCC (and other RIRs): THEY REALLY CAN'T RECLAIM ANY NET OR ASN without an agreement with the resource holder. Just technically can't ;-) They can only scare them or their upstreams, but not to enforce stop routing. Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
fact remains, the regulation of internet addresses by ripe and the outsource of such power is a "courtesy" rahter than actual "law".
should any of our clients prefixes be deleted if they refuse to pay, we shall just continue to announce them.
-- WBR, Max Tulyev (MT6561-RIPE, 2:463/253@FIDO)
Those were examples/indications at the GM held at 6th of May 2009, while the PI policy 2007-01 is in effect since 3rd of March 2009. And even now the charging scheme for 2010 is still a draft, it should have been final at the introduction of PI policy 2007-01 at 3rd of March.
The charging scheme is always voted on in the autumn GM. The address policy working group could not dictate the charges as that is not their decision. 2007-01 was accepted in October 2008 following extended discussions on the Address Policy working group mailing list, which is open to join, and the interpretation at the time was that with it the RIPE community expected the charges to be implemented in the charging scheme for 2009. That wasn't possible due to the timescales involved and the high costs it would impose on members with customers that had many provider independent resources. However, the NCC is now doing what the community requested. Cheers, Rob -- JANET(UK) is a trading name of The JNT Association, a company limited by guarantee which is registered in England under No. 2881024 and whose Registered Office is at Lumen House, Library Avenue, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire. OX11 0SG
participants (5)
-
Martin List-Petersen -
Max Tulyev -
Michiel Klaver -
Rob Evans -
Sven Olaf Kamphuis