Hi Sascha, Don't take my word for it.. look at the data yourself. Here is an example... Have a look in the database .. take for instance : the ORG ID's that start with : ORG-NGSL<insert number here between 3 to 27>-RIPE Each is their own LIR ... each has requested a /22 ... 23 entries in total ... (http://pastebin.com/tZvm3WhU ) Created over time, requesting /22's for those various LIR's over multiple days.. ( If I look at the allocations dates of the /22's.. ) This is a very clear example that it is not a single occurrence of creating just an LIR extra, but a planned and executed setup, that was not in line with the intent of the policy of the final /8 policy. The data is available for everyone to see and download, I'm not using any secret info, all this info comes from public sources ... Regards, Erik Bais -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] Namens Sascha Luck [ml] Verzonden: donderdag 19 november 2015 17:34 Aan: members-discuss@ripe.net Onderwerp: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [news] Board Resolution to Suspend Creation of Multiple LIR Accounts On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 05:19:42PM +0100, Richard Hartmann wrote:

Very much related, this German article[1] claims that in November, 2000 new LIRs were created, bringing the total amount of LIRs to almost 13,000. Can someone reconfirm with official numbers, please?

Actually, I would like to see some numbers too (LIR/entity creation). So far we have nothing but the allegation of one participant that a problem actually exists.

I am _very_ much concerned about what that means for any potential future GMs if those, let's call them creative, people and LIRs vote en bloc.

If they are owned by the same entity, it already only has one vote. If they are not, I cannot see how you could prevent them from voting whichever way they see fit. And yes, with ~5-6% turn-out, bloc voting could have a significant effect. rgds, Sascha Luck ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015, at 19:06, Sascha Luck [ml] wrote:

The next obvious loophole is that one could create a dozen limited companies (depending on the jurisdiction this is an exercise in bureaucracy rather than very expensive) and open one LIR each, then one "buys" all the others. Will this, then, be banned too? Any other restrictions on what legal form a LIR can take or what business transactions are allowed? I would like to know what to plan for and whether to even stay in the Internet business.

In most (?? all ??) countries there is some thing called tax administration or fiscal administration that may randomly intervene, and when they do, they usually end up inflicting random amount of damage. For those that don't like the "random amount of damage" part, they usually spend unreasonable amount of time, effort and/or money on bureaucratic and legal services. With the financial part added, I find that it makes a decent barrier to abuse. -- Radu-Adrian FEURDEAN fr.ccs

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015, at 17:34, Erik Bais wrote:

So I can't see how many new LIR's have been setup, until they have actually received any resources .. but this is how many LIR's have received a /22's in the last couple of months.

So unless these 2000 LIR's haven't requested their resources yet .. they might want to check the number..

https://ripe71.ripe.net/presentations/121-RIPE-NCC-Outlook-2015-and-2016.pdf Slide 3 2000 extra members at 11-2015 (compared with 11-2014) 12700 members total (looks like an acceptable approximation of 13000). However, on the same period I can find a total of 3139 allocations (2014-11-01 to 2015-10-31). -- Radu-Adrian FEURDEAN fr.ccs

Thanks Marcus, Op 19/11/15 om 18:38 schreef Marcus Stoegbauer:

On 19 Nov 2015, at 18:19, Richard Hartmann wrote:

...

JFTR, I fully agree with the Board's decision.

Very much related, this German article[1] claims that in November, 2000 new LIRs were created, bringing the total amount of LIRs to almost 13,000. Can someone reconfirm with official numbers, please? https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/november-2015/Financia... Slide number 4 should be the numbers you’re looking for. The presentation is linked on the GM website, btw.

Indeed, one of the dates originally published and delivered in Axel Pawlik's RIPE NCC Services WG presentation was a typographical error and should have been: November 2014 (not 2015) = 10,970 November 2015 = 12,700 Therefore, there was a net increase of some 1,730 LIRs over the last 12 month period. Please note: the online presentation has now been corrected accordingly. https://ripe71.ripe.net/presentations/121-RIPE-NCC-Outlook-2015-and-2016.pdf Regards, Serge Radovcic Chief Communications Officer RIPE NCC