Hi, I just noticed this on the NCC website: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-... From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation’s products and services [...]" It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services... I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) Cheers, Sander
http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-...
It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services...
I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-)
Now I am sure RIPE is on a Parke's dive... <http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2010-10-20/> -- Alfredo Sola http://www.solucionesdinamicas.net/
Hi Sander, On 10/22/2013 05:27 PM, Sander Steffann wrote:
It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services...
I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-)
Obviously this is to cope with the killing competion in the market RIPE is working in. -- Kerio Connect in de Cloud? https://www.kerioindecloud.nl/ Mark Schouten | Tuxis Internet Engineering KvK: 09218193 | http://www.tuxis.nl/ T: 0318 200208 | info@tuxis.nl
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Sander Steffann wrote:
Hi,
I just noticed this on the NCC website: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-...
From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation?s products and services [...]"
It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services...
I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-)
Hi Sander, Well, you know, it doesn't surprise me that much, considering the employees talking about the NCC as a company while it in many ways is everything but a company. I think it has many similarities with a government entity. People do a lot of divese things and nobody is responsible for the financies. (Axel just goes to Nigel and says "I need 20 millinon euros next year, and then the board suggest a membership fee that will cover the expenses and we are done). According to the activity plan, about 30ish people work with the core business: registry services. And about 100 do other stuff. Of course there has to be some infrastructure around but I still don't get what all of them are doing. I would be very happy to see a document stating what the NCC are supposed to do. And not do. Atlas, and labs and "no name" services are things I could do without. For example Cheers, Daniel _________________________________________________________________________________ Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 stolpe@resilans.se Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ Box 13 054 556741-1193 103 02 Stockholm
I like atlas and labs :( On 10/22/13 7:49 PM, Daniel Stolpe wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Sander Steffann wrote:
Hi,
I just noticed this on the NCC website: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-...
From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation?s products and services [...]"
It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services...
I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) Hi Sander,
Well, you know, it doesn't surprise me that much, considering the employees talking about the NCC as a company while it in many ways is everything but a company. I think it has many similarities with a government entity. People do a lot of divese things and nobody is responsible for the financies. (Axel just goes to Nigel and says "I need 20 millinon euros next year, and then the board suggest a membership fee that will cover the expenses and we are done).
According to the activity plan, about 30ish people work with the core business: registry services. And about 100 do other stuff. Of course there has to be some infrastructure around but I still don't get what all of them are doing.
I would be very happy to see a document stating what the NCC are supposed to do. And not do.
Atlas, and labs and "no name" services are things I could do without. For example
Cheers,
Daniel
_________________________________________________________________________________ Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 stolpe@resilans.se Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ Box 13 054 556741-1193 103 02 Stockholm
---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
-- Tālrunis: +371 67788888
Well, some people apparently do. My point is more that we pay about 20 people do to lab stuff that nobody (out of Amsterdam) knows how it started and nobody knows who might have asked for. If we need to hire people to market services, then I think something is upside down. I would prefer to see something like: 1) Someone presenting an idea (and a budget) for a new service. 2) The membership can say do or don't. 3) If "do", then there can be a trial for some period of time. 4) Evaluation and feed back. 5) The membership can again say do or don't (to continue). Not building something large and hidden and then try to get people to like and use it. Cheers, Daniel On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, J?nis Jaunoš?ns wrote:
I like atlas and labs :(
On 10/22/13 7:49 PM, Daniel Stolpe wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Sander Steffann wrote:
Hi,
I just noticed this on the NCC website: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-...
From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation?s products and services [...]"
It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services...
I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) Hi Sander,
Well, you know, it doesn't surprise me that much, considering the employees talking about the NCC as a company while it in many ways is everything but a company. I think it has many similarities with a government entity. People do a lot of divese things and nobody is responsible for the financies. (Axel just goes to Nigel and says "I need 20 millinon euros next year, and then the board suggest a membership fee that will cover the expenses and we are done).
According to the activity plan, about 30ish people work with the core business: registry services. And about 100 do other stuff. Of course there has to be some infrastructure around but I still don't get what all of them are doing.
I would be very happy to see a document stating what the NCC are supposed to do. And not do.
Atlas, and labs and "no name" services are things I could do without. For example
Cheers,
Daniel
_________________________________________________________________________________ Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 stolpe@resilans.se Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ Box 13 054 556741-1193 103 02 Stockholm
Στις 22/10/2013 8:39 μμ, ο/η Jānis Jaunošāns έγραψε:
I like atlas and labs :(
Atlas and labs are things that I expect from RIPE NCC because of our membership.
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Yiorgos Adamopoulos wrote:
???? 22/10/2013 8:39 ??, ?/? J?nis Jaunoš?ns ??????:
I like atlas and labs :(
Atlas and labs are things that I expect from RIPE NCC because of our membership.
How long have you been a member? Maybe new members are used to this playground business from the start and the older members are more sceptic. This is more of a principal question than a financial one. With all new members there is probably room in the budget for a lot of not really important things at the same time as the membership fees go down. But in principle, the Réseaux IP Européens should be about European IP resources. I come to think of the fibre company owned by the Stockholm city government. They have monopoly for fibres in town. But some years ago they started to pull fibres across the Baltic sea. The question then was not if fibres across the Baltic was a good thing, but wether it was the task of this company to be in charge. (It was not). Cheers, Daniel _________________________________________________________________________________ Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 stolpe@resilans.se Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ Box 13 054 556741-1193 103 02 Stockholm
On 23 okt 2013, at 10:26, Daniel Stolpe <stolpe@resilans.se> wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Yiorgos Adamopoulos wrote:
???? 22/10/2013 8:39 ??, ?/? J?nis Jaunoš?ns ??????:
I like atlas and labs :(
Atlas and labs are things that I expect from RIPE NCC because of our membership.
How long have you been a member? Maybe new members are used to this playground business from the start and the older members are more sceptic.
This is more of a principal question than a financial one. With all new members there is probably room in the budget for a lot of not really important things at the same time as the membership fees go down.
But in principle, the Réseaux IP Européens should be about European IP resources.
While I have some healthy skepticism against some RIPE NCC projects, and some of the ways they came to be, I think it's also fair to point out that the activities of the RIPE NCC is presented in the RIPE NCC activity plan, and that they as of the last one actually does a better job of breaking up costs in it. If you, me or anyone else have concerns or opinions on it, the right thing is to post comments on it when it is presented to members every year. Unfortunately the posting if normally comes with a very quiet mailing list. What we should all be doing during the year though is to compare activities to it and provide feedback on how well (or not) we think it's executed. That is partly why the NCC Services WG was created once upon a time, and we have (but rarely) had feedback in there on the performance of the activities of the NCC. This mailinglist is of course also a good channel, but I think we need to accept that the NCC does what is in the activity plan approved by it's members.... Best regards, - kurtis - --- Kurt Erik Lindqvist, CEO kurtis@netnod.se, Direct: +46-8-562 860 11, Switch: +46-8-562 860 00 Franzéngatan 5 | SE-112 51 Stockholm | Sweden
On Wed, 23 Oct 2013, Kurt Erik Lindqvist wrote:
On 23 okt 2013, at 10:26, Daniel Stolpe <stolpe@resilans.se> wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Yiorgos Adamopoulos wrote:
???? 22/10/2013 8:39 ??, ?/? J?nis Jaunoš?ns ??????:
I like atlas and labs :(
Atlas and labs are things that I expect from RIPE NCC because of our membership.
How long have you been a member? Maybe new members are used to this playground business from the start and the older members are more sceptic.
This is more of a principal question than a financial one. With all new members there is probably room in the budget for a lot of not really important things at the same time as the membership fees go down.
But in principle, the Réseaux IP Européens should be about European IP resources.
While I have some healthy skepticism against some RIPE NCC projects, and some of the ways they came to be, I think it's also fair to point out that the activities of the RIPE NCC is presented in the RIPE NCC activity plan, and that they as of the last one actually does a better job of breaking up costs in it.
Absolutely. Thanks to some Russian shouting, if I remember things correctly. ;-)
If you, me or anyone else have concerns or opinions on it, the right thing is to post comments on it when it is presented to members every year. Unfortunately the posting if normally comes with a very quiet mailing list. What we should all be doing during the year though is to compare activities to it and provide feedback on how well (or not) we think it's executed.
I agree. But I rarely see any debate about this, so if someone has an opinion, it is not obvious when or where to speak up.
That is partly why the NCC Services WG was created once upon a time, and we have (but rarely) had feedback in there on the performance of the activities of the NCC. This mailinglist is of course also a good channel, but I think we need to accept that the NCC does what is in the activity plan approved by it's members....
Yes. If the majority is happy, then we are done. Cheers, Daniel _________________________________________________________________________________ Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 stolpe@resilans.se Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ Box 13 054 556741-1193 103 02 Stockholm
On 23/10/2013 10:04, Daniel Stolpe wrote:
While I have some healthy skepticism against some RIPE NCC projects, and some of the ways they came to be, I think it's also fair to point out that the activities of the RIPE NCC is presented in the RIPE NCC activity plan, and that they as of the last one actually does a better job of breaking up costs in it.
Absolutely. Thanks to some Russian shouting, if I remember things correctly. ;-)
Well, the result of the Russian shouting was that the previous year's activity plan was re-published with a better breakdown. The Board had in fact already decided (as a response to, amongst other things, Kurtis' questions at the previous General meeting) that the next Activity plan would have a better breakdown and costing structure. But we would say that wouldn't we ;-) Nigel
On 23.10.2013, at 10:33, Kurt Erik Lindqvist <kurtis@netnod.se> wrote:
On 23 okt 2013, at 10:26, Daniel Stolpe <stolpe@resilans.se> wrote:
This is more of a principal question than a financial one. With all new members there is probably room in the budget for a lot of not really important things at the same time as the membership fees go down.
But in principle, the Réseaux IP Européens should be about European IP resources.
While I have some healthy skepticism against some RIPE NCC projects, and some of the ways they came to be, I think it's also fair to point out that the activities of the RIPE NCC is presented in the RIPE NCC activity plan, and that they as of the last one actually does a better job of breaking up costs in it. If you, me or anyone else have concerns or opinions on it, the right thing is to post comments on it when it is presented to members every year. Unfortunately the posting if normally comes with a very quiet mailing list. What we should all be doing during the year though is to compare activities to it and provide feedback on how well (or not) we think it's executed. That is partly why the NCC Services WG was created once upon a time, and we have (but rarely) had feedback in there on the performance of the activities of the NCC. This mailinglist is of course also a good channel, but I think we need to accept that the NCC does what is in the activity plan approved by it's members….
I fully agree with your points, the activity plan has become a lot better to read after the improvements in the last couple of years. But if I may be a bit overly pedantic for a second: the activity plan is not directly approved by the RIPE NCC members, but by the board. The members can discuss the activity plan in the general meeting but cannot vote on it. Marcus -- man-da.de GmbH, AS8365 Phone: +49 6151 16-71022 Mornewegstr. 30 Fax: +49 6151 16-71198 D-64293 Darmstadt e-mail: ms@man-da.de Geschäftsführer Marcus Stögbauer AG Darmstadt, HRB 94 84
On 23/10/2013 10:58, Marcus Stoegbauer wrote:
On 23.10.2013, at 10:33, Kurt Erik Lindqvist <kurtis@netnod.se> wrote:
I fully agree with your points, the activity plan has become a lot better to read after the improvements in the last couple of years. But if I may be a bit overly pedantic for a second: the activity plan is not directly approved by the RIPE NCC members, but by the board. The members can discuss the activity plan in the general meeting but cannot vote on it.
No but it is circulated both in draft and final form on the member list, well in advance of the general meeting and members are always invited to discuss it on the list. The Board does watch the list and does take your comments into account.
Nigel
Στις 23/10/2013 11:26 πμ, ο/η Daniel Stolpe έγραψε:
How long have you been a member? Maybe new members are used to this playground business from the start and the older members are more sceptic.
Since 1998 or 1999 (I'll have to check). But then again we were running tt24 so mentioning Atlas hit a nerve.
But in principle, the Réseaux IP Européens should be about European IP resources.
If we make this their only mission then we can just transform them to bureaucrats that maintain a spreadsheet and be done with it. This LIR (gr.tee) although not heavily involved with RIPE NCCs activities would not like to see RIPE NCC reduced to such an organization.
On 23/10/2013 16:26, Daniel Stolpe wrote:
But in principle, the Réseaux IP Européens should be about European IP resources.
Hi Daniel, ... as it is. The terms and reference for the RIPE community are defined in RIPE-1, which is still current: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-001 Nick
On 22/10/2013 17:49, Daniel Stolpe wrote:
Well, you know, it doesn't surprise me that much, considering the employees talking about the NCC as a company while it in many ways is everything but a company. I think it has many similarities with a government entity. People do a lot of divese things and nobody is responsible for the financies. (Axel just goes to Nigel and says "I need 20 millinon euros next year, and then the board suggest a membership fee that will cover the expenses and we are done).
Since I got mentioned by name, perhaps the list won't mind if I respond to this one. In actual fact the board drags Axel over the coals every time he proposes a budget. Every item on the budget is debated and in many cases reduced. Axel has a personal objective (with real personal implications) to reduce per member spending, year on year and to bring expenses in below budget. That's one reason why the expenses are consistently falling. Every extra staff position is identified and debated before making it into the budget. It normally takes 2 or 3 iterations to come to a final budget, and only then will the membership fee be proposed. If the community thinks that the board just rubber-stamps the NCC's management decisions, then I'm afraid they are much mistaken. In addition to that, the NCC generates a monthly board report, running to 20 pages or more, which the board reads through and picks over. Between us, we've got pretty good at spotting anomalies and Axel knows better than to try (not that he would, of course). All the best Nigel
Hi Nigel,
Since I got mentioned by name, perhaps the list won't mind if I respond to this one.
Very much appreciated even!
In actual fact the board drags Axel over the coals every time he proposes a budget. Every item on the budget is debated and in many cases reduced. Axel has a personal objective (with real personal implications) to reduce per member spending, year on year and to bring expenses in below budget. That's one reason why the expenses are consistently falling. Every extra staff position is identified and debated before making it into the budget. It normally takes 2 or 3 iterations to come to a final budget, and only then will the membership fee be proposed. If the community thinks that the board just rubber-stamps the NCC's management decisions, then I'm afraid they are much mistaken.
In addition to that, the NCC generates a monthly board report, running to 20 pages or more, which the board reads through and picks over. Between us, we've got pretty good at spotting anomalies and Axel knows better than to try (not that he would, of course).
Thank you for this reply. I think it is very good that the members see what their board is doing for them. And I guess it might make the board's job a bit easier if we as members think about and discuss what we expect from the NCC in a constructive way :-) Cheers, Sander
Hi Sander et al, Yes we are looking for such an addition to our team. The term "marketing" may bring up thoughts of salesmen in suits and flash presentations, but that is not at all what we are intending. However, we do recognise there is a need for an addition to our team at the RIPE NCC that can help us improve the way many of our services are communicated to bring greater value to our membership and the RIPE community. And the term that is often used to describe such a function is associated with "marketing". I guess the irony is that the description I used in the advertisement should be seen as marketing in itself and I think that all members should be rest assured that they are not about to be hit by any hard hitting marketing campaigns from our end. That I can promise you all. We have a lot of new members joining the association, from far reaches of our incredibly vast service region and we are doing our very best to keep up with the latest techniques in communicating with them and reaching out to them to understand their needs. I hope that you don't get too caught up in the terms being used in this advertisement but rather what we are trying to achieve with this valuable addition. While we could get into an endless mailing list discussion about this, I would rather ask you to bear with me here and trust my actions. So far, I feel that I have brought positive change and additional transparency to the RIPE NCC since I joined the team just over two years ago and I feel equally as confident in asking you to trust me that we are aiming to continue with this trend. Kind regards, Serge Radovcic Chief Communications Officer RIPE NCC On 10/22/13 5:27 PM, Sander Steffann wrote:
Hi,
I just noticed this on the NCC website: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-...
From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation’s products and services [...]"
It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services...
I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-)
Cheers, Sander
---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
Hey Serge, It was indeed my feeling with the word 'marketing' that triggered my message. Thank you for your reply. Met vriendelijke groet, Sander Steffann
Op 22 okt. 2013 om 19:30 heeft Serge Radovcic <sr@ripe.net> het volgende geschreven:
Hi Sander et al,
Yes we are looking for such an addition to our team. The term "marketing" may bring up thoughts of salesmen in suits and flash presentations, but that is not at all what we are intending. However, we do recognise there is a need for an addition to our team at the RIPE NCC that can help us improve the way many of our services are communicated to bring greater value to our membership and the RIPE community. And the term that is often used to describe such a function is associated with "marketing".
I guess the irony is that the description I used in the advertisement should be seen as marketing in itself and I think that all members should be rest assured that they are not about to be hit by any hard hitting marketing campaigns from our end. That I can promise you all.
We have a lot of new members joining the association, from far reaches of our incredibly vast service region and we are doing our very best to keep up with the latest techniques in communicating with them and reaching out to them to understand their needs.
I hope that you don't get too caught up in the terms being used in this advertisement but rather what we are trying to achieve with this valuable addition.
While we could get into an endless mailing list discussion about this, I would rather ask you to bear with me here and trust my actions. So far, I feel that I have brought positive change and additional transparency to the RIPE NCC since I joined the team just over two years ago and I feel equally as confident in asking you to trust me that we are aiming to continue with this trend.
Kind regards,
Serge Radovcic Chief Communications Officer RIPE NCC
On 10/22/13 5:27 PM, Sander Steffann wrote: Hi,
I just noticed this on the NCC website: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-...
From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation’s products and services [...]"
It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services...
I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-)
Cheers, Sander
---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
Hear, hear. All organisations require a communications arm. Sent from my iPhone
On 22 Oct 2013, at 18:31, "Serge Radovcic" <sr@ripe.net> wrote:
Hi Sander et al,
Yes we are looking for such an addition to our team. The term "marketing" may bring up thoughts of salesmen in suits and flash presentations, but that is not at all what we are intending. However, we do recognise there is a need for an addition to our team at the RIPE NCC that can help us improve the way many of our services are communicated to bring greater value to our membership and the RIPE community. And the term that is often used to describe such a function is associated with "marketing".
I guess the irony is that the description I used in the advertisement should be seen as marketing in itself and I think that all members should be rest assured that they are not about to be hit by any hard hitting marketing campaigns from our end. That I can promise you all.
We have a lot of new members joining the association, from far reaches of our incredibly vast service region and we are doing our very best to keep up with the latest techniques in communicating with them and reaching out to them to understand their needs.
I hope that you don't get too caught up in the terms being used in this advertisement but rather what we are trying to achieve with this valuable addition.
While we could get into an endless mailing list discussion about this, I would rather ask you to bear with me here and trust my actions. So far, I feel that I have brought positive change and additional transparency to the RIPE NCC since I joined the team just over two years ago and I feel equally as confident in asking you to trust me that we are aiming to continue with this trend.
Kind regards,
Serge Radovcic Chief Communications Officer RIPE NCC
On 10/22/13 5:27 PM, Sander Steffann wrote: Hi,
I just noticed this on the NCC website: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-...
From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation’s products and services [...]"
It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services...
I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-)
Cheers, Sander
---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
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On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 7:30 PM, Serge Radovcic <sr@ripe.net> wrote:
Hi Sander et al,
Yes we are looking for such an addition to our team. The term "marketing" may bring up thoughts of salesmen in suits and flash presentations, but that is not at all what we are intending. However, we do recognise there is a need for an addition to our team at the RIPE NCC that can help us improve the way many of our services are communicated to bring greater value to our membership and the RIPE community. And the term that is often used to describe such a function is associated with "marketing".
As a member I don't really like that you used terms like marketing or sales at all. I would be more happy with something more along the line of communication or similar since that's how I understand the task you need help with are? -- Roger Jorgensen | ROJO9-RIPE rogerj@gmail.com | - IPv6 is The Key! http://www.jorgensen.no | roger@jorgensen.no
participants (13)
-
Alfredo Sola -
Daniel Stolpe -
Jānis Jaunošāns -
Kurt Erik Lindqvist -
Marcus Stoegbauer -
Mark Schouten -
Nick Hilliard -
Nigel Titley -
Roger Jørgensen -
Sander Steffann -
Serge Radovcic -
Tom Holloway -
Yiorgos Adamopoulos