RIPE invoice 2010-I
we noticed ripe bills as numbers in use by the LIR -themselves- as "Independant resources" rather than the points-based billing model.. surely this was not what the 2007-1 policy was intended to do? i'd say AS numbers in use by the lir themselves fall under the normal points model still, just like PA ipv4 and ipv6 resources... exactly what is so "independant" about our OWN AS number remains unclear to me. scrape a few extra bucks for ripe. RIPE billing department in the mean while claims that this is not an error...
Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
we noticed ripe bills as numbers in use by the LIR -themselves- as "Independant resources" rather than the points-based billing model..
surely this was not what the 2007-1 policy was intended to do?
i'd say AS numbers in use by the lir themselves fall under the normal points model still, just like PA ipv4 and ipv6 resources...
exactly what is so "independant" about our OWN AS number remains unclear to me.
scrape a few extra bucks for ripe.
RIPE billing department in the mean while claims that this is not an error...
Last year I've got such remark from RIPE:
If this AS number is in use by your LIR, you can select the option "My Infrastructure" in the interface provided in the LIR Portal: https://lirportal.ripe.net/lirportal/index.html LIR Portal -> Independent Resources
I hope this clarifies. Kind regards,
Andrea Cima RIPE NCC
Have you marked your AS number such way? Eugene Grosbein
Have you marked your AS number such way?
Yes, I did, RIPE in the meanwhile has sent us another couple of emails persisting in their claim that AS numbers, also the ones used by the LIRs themselves are billed seperately with the new independant resources system... So if everyone would like, check their invoice they got a few days ago, they'd find they now have to pay extra for their -own- as... way to go ripe. On Tue, 2 Mar 2010, Eugene Grosbein wrote:
Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
we noticed ripe bills as numbers in use by the LIR -themselves- as "Independant resources" rather than the points-based billing model..
surely this was not what the 2007-1 policy was intended to do?
i'd say AS numbers in use by the lir themselves fall under the normal points model still, just like PA ipv4 and ipv6 resources...
exactly what is so "independant" about our OWN AS number remains unclear to me.
scrape a few extra bucks for ripe.
RIPE billing department in the mean while claims that this is not an error...
Last year I've got such remark from RIPE:
If this AS number is in use by your LIR, you can select the option "My Infrastructure" in the interface provided in the LIR Portal: https://lirportal.ripe.net/lirportal/index.html LIR Portal -> Independent Resources
I hope this clarifies. Kind regards,
Andrea Cima RIPE NCC
Have you marked your AS number such way?
Eugene Grosbein
From RIPE's reply:
which indeed, doesn't state that -YOUR OWN- AS won't be billed extra, but rather "The only difference between 'my infrastructure' and 'my end-user' is that you don't need to upload a contract." So the end result of the 2007-1 policy is that we can now all pay extra cash to ripe for something we already had... Funny that, because I always was under the impression that entries marked as "own infrastructure" would remain in the normal points-based billing model... seeing the replies so far, i take it most other LIRs were too :P ripes reply: It was communicated through our website: http://ripe.net/rs/pi-existing-assignments.html And at the moment that you could make a selection for the resources through the LIR portal there was a link 'What are the consequences of my choice? (click to expand...)' If you clicked on it you would get the following pop-up: * My Infrastructure: If you have selected this option you will not have to upload a contract and registration papers, as these resources are assigned to your LIR's own infrastructure and are covered by the Standard Service Agreement you have signed with the RIPE NCC. * The RIPE NCC will audit all resources listed as 'My Infrastructure'. These resources are included in the charging scheme 2010. My End User: If you have selected this option the independent resource will stay registered with your LIR. You will have to upload an Independent Assignment Request and Maintenance Agreement between your LIR and the End User and the End User's company registration papers, before 1st March 2010. These resources are included in the charging scheme 2010. * Not my End User: If you select this option the independent resource will be removed from your LIR's records. These resources are marked and excluded from the charging scheme 2010. Eventually these resources will also be removed from your LIR Portal. The only difference between 'my infrastructure' and 'my end-user' is that you don't need to upload a contract. On Tue, 2 Mar 2010, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
Have you marked your AS number such way?
Yes, I did, RIPE in the meanwhile has sent us another couple of emails persisting in their claim that AS numbers, also the ones used by the LIRs themselves are billed seperately with the new independant resources system...
So if everyone would like, check their invoice they got a few days ago, they'd find they now have to pay extra for their -own- as...
way to go ripe.
On Tue, 2 Mar 2010, Eugene Grosbein wrote:
Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
we noticed ripe bills as numbers in use by the LIR -themselves- as "Independant resources" rather than the points-based billing model..
surely this was not what the 2007-1 policy was intended to do?
i'd say AS numbers in use by the lir themselves fall under the normal points model still, just like PA ipv4 and ipv6 resources...
exactly what is so "independant" about our OWN AS number remains unclear to me.
scrape a few extra bucks for ripe.
RIPE billing department in the mean while claims that this is not an error...
Last year I've got such remark from RIPE:
If this AS number is in use by your LIR, you can select the option "My Infrastructure" in the interface provided in the LIR Portal: https://lirportal.ripe.net/lirportal/index.html LIR Portal -> Independent Resources
I hope this clarifies. Kind regards,
Andrea Cima RIPE NCC
Have you marked your AS number such way?
Eugene Grosbein
---- If you don't want to receive mails from the RIPE NCC Members Discuss list, please log in to your LIR Portal account at: http://lirportal.ripe.net/ First click on General and then click on Edit. At the bottom of the Page you can add or remove addresses.
No. The understanding from the GM was quite clear, that all PI ressources would be billed, be it your own infrastructure or not. There is no difference to PI, be it your infrastructure or a customers. There's only a difference between PA and PI. Only PA is in the point based billing system. PI ressources from before weren't billed at all, be they your infrastructure or not. That was pretty clear to anybody, I think. Kind regards, Martin List-Petersen Airwire Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
From RIPE's reply:
which indeed, doesn't state that -YOUR OWN- AS won't be billed extra, but rather "The only difference between 'my infrastructure' and 'my end-user' is that you don't need to upload a contract."
So the end result of the 2007-1 policy is that we can now all pay extra cash to ripe for something we already had...
Funny that, because I always was under the impression that entries marked as "own infrastructure" would remain in the normal points-based billing model... seeing the replies so far, i take it most other LIRs were too :P
ripes reply:
It was communicated through our website:
http://ripe.net/rs/pi-existing-assignments.html
And at the moment that you could make a selection for the resources through the LIR portal there was a link 'What are the consequences of my choice? (click to expand...)'
If you clicked on it you would get the following pop-up:
* My Infrastructure: If you have selected this option you will not have to upload a contract and registration papers, as these resources are assigned to your LIR's own infrastructure and are covered by the Standard Service Agreement you have signed with the RIPE NCC.
* The RIPE NCC will audit all resources listed as 'My Infrastructure'. These resources are included in the charging scheme 2010. My End User: If you have selected this option the independent resource will stay registered with your LIR. You will have to upload an Independent Assignment Request and Maintenance Agreement between your LIR and the End User and the End User's company registration papers, before 1st March 2010. These resources are included in the charging scheme 2010.
* Not my End User: If you select this option the independent resource will be removed from your LIR's records. These resources are marked and excluded from the charging scheme 2010. Eventually these resources will also be removed from your LIR Portal.
The only difference between 'my infrastructure' and 'my end-user' is that you don't need to upload a contract.
On Tue, 2 Mar 2010, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
Have you marked your AS number such way?
Yes, I did, RIPE in the meanwhile has sent us another couple of emails persisting in their claim that AS numbers, also the ones used by the LIRs themselves are billed seperately with the new independant resources system...
So if everyone would like, check their invoice they got a few days ago, they'd find they now have to pay extra for their -own- as...
way to go ripe.
On Tue, 2 Mar 2010, Eugene Grosbein wrote:
Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
we noticed ripe bills as numbers in use by the LIR -themselves- as "Independant resources" rather than the points-based billing model..
surely this was not what the 2007-1 policy was intended to do?
i'd say AS numbers in use by the lir themselves fall under the normal points model still, just like PA ipv4 and ipv6 resources...
exactly what is so "independant" about our OWN AS number remains unclear to me.
scrape a few extra bucks for ripe.
RIPE billing department in the mean while claims that this is not an error...
Last year I've got such remark from RIPE:
If this AS number is in use by your LIR, you can select the option "My Infrastructure" in the interface provided in the LIR Portal: https://lirportal.ripe.net/lirportal/index.html LIR Portal -> Independent Resources
I hope this clarifies. Kind regards,
Andrea Cima RIPE NCC
Have you marked your AS number such way?
Eugene Grosbein
---- If you don't want to receive mails from the RIPE NCC Members Discuss list, please log in to your LIR Portal account at: http://lirportal.ripe.net/ First click on General and then click on Edit. At the bottom of the Page you can add or remove addresses.
---- If you don't want to receive mails from the RIPE NCC Members Discuss list, please log in to your LIR Portal account at: http://lirportal.ripe.net/ First click on General and then click on Edit. At the bottom of the Page you can add or remove addresses.
Hi Sven, in regards to the AS, I can see, where that is a bit of a bummer alright. /Martin Martin List-Petersen wrote:
No.
The understanding from the GM was quite clear, that all PI ressources would be billed, be it your own infrastructure or not. There is no difference to PI, be it your infrastructure or a customers. There's only a difference between PA and PI. Only PA is in the point based billing system.
PI ressources from before weren't billed at all, be they your infrastructure or not.
That was pretty clear to anybody, I think.
Kind regards, Martin List-Petersen Airwire
Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
From RIPE's reply:
which indeed, doesn't state that -YOUR OWN- AS won't be billed extra, but rather "The only difference between 'my infrastructure' and 'my end-user' is that you don't need to upload a contract."
So the end result of the 2007-1 policy is that we can now all pay extra cash to ripe for something we already had...
Funny that, because I always was under the impression that entries marked as "own infrastructure" would remain in the normal points-based billing model... seeing the replies so far, i take it most other LIRs were too :P
ripes reply:
It was communicated through our website:
http://ripe.net/rs/pi-existing-assignments.html
And at the moment that you could make a selection for the resources through the LIR portal there was a link 'What are the consequences of my choice? (click to expand...)'
If you clicked on it you would get the following pop-up:
* My Infrastructure: If you have selected this option you will not have to upload a contract and registration papers, as these resources are assigned to your LIR's own infrastructure and are covered by the Standard Service Agreement you have signed with the RIPE NCC.
* The RIPE NCC will audit all resources listed as 'My Infrastructure'. These resources are included in the charging scheme 2010. My End User: If you have selected this option the independent resource will stay registered with your LIR. You will have to upload an Independent Assignment Request and Maintenance Agreement between your LIR and the End User and the End User's company registration papers, before 1st March 2010. These resources are included in the charging scheme 2010.
* Not my End User: If you select this option the independent resource will be removed from your LIR's records. These resources are marked and excluded from the charging scheme 2010. Eventually these resources will also be removed from your LIR Portal.
The only difference between 'my infrastructure' and 'my end-user' is that you don't need to upload a contract.
On Tue, 2 Mar 2010, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
Have you marked your AS number such way? Yes, I did, RIPE in the meanwhile has sent us another couple of emails persisting in their claim that AS numbers, also the ones used by the LIRs themselves are billed seperately with the new independant resources system...
So if everyone would like, check their invoice they got a few days ago, they'd find they now have to pay extra for their -own- as...
way to go ripe.
On Tue, 2 Mar 2010, Eugene Grosbein wrote:
Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
we noticed ripe bills as numbers in use by the LIR -themselves- as "Independant resources" rather than the points-based billing model..
surely this was not what the 2007-1 policy was intended to do?
i'd say AS numbers in use by the lir themselves fall under the normal points model still, just like PA ipv4 and ipv6 resources...
exactly what is so "independant" about our OWN AS number remains unclear to me.
scrape a few extra bucks for ripe.
RIPE billing department in the mean while claims that this is not an error... Last year I've got such remark from RIPE:
If this AS number is in use by your LIR, you can select the option "My Infrastructure" in the interface provided in the LIR Portal: https://lirportal.ripe.net/lirportal/index.html LIR Portal -> Independent Resources
I hope this clarifies. Kind regards,
Andrea Cima RIPE NCC Have you marked your AS number such way?
Eugene Grosbein
---- If you don't want to receive mails from the RIPE NCC Members Discuss list, please log in to your LIR Portal account at: http://lirportal.ripe.net/ First click on General and then click on Edit. At the bottom of the Page you can add or remove addresses. ---- If you don't want to receive mails from the RIPE NCC Members Discuss list, please log in to your LIR Portal account at: http://lirportal.ripe.net/ First click on General and then click on Edit. At the bottom of the Page you can add or remove addresses.
Martin List-Petersen <martin@airwire.ie> wrote:
No.
The understanding from the GM was quite clear, that all PI ressources would be billed, be it your own infrastructure or not. There is no difference to PI, be it your infrastructure or a customers. There's only a difference between PA and PI. Only PA is in the point based billing system.
PI ressources from before weren't billed at all, be they your infrastructure or not.
That was pretty clear to anybody, I think.
Maybe that was pretty clear to anybody who went to the GM, but how many LIRs manage to make it to the GM? IMO the whole implementation of 2007-1 has been unclear for anybody not party to the GM. I thought the point of 2007-1 was to make end users account for their usage financially. LIR infrastructure is not end user. For a small LIR 2007-1 has ultimately cost us money and caused us headache with our end users, which is something that seems to have not been thought about in terms of how people would have to implement it. I see the point of 2007-1, if address space is running out then people are not going to pay for space that they don't actively have a need for. IMO however, it has been poorly implemented. Regards, -Paul- -- Paul Civati <paul(at)racksense.com> 0870 321 2855 Rack Sense Ltd - Managed Service Provider - www.racksense.com
I thought the point of 2007-1 was to make end users account for their usage financially.
I thought it was simply to ensure an ongoing contractual relationship, but then again, I'm sure I lost track several times during the discussion. :) Cheers, Rob -- Rob Evans JANET(UK) Development Team Twitter: https://twitter.com/JANETDev/team Work tweets: https://twitter.com/internetplumber JANET(UK) is a trading name of The JNT Association, a company limited by guarantee which is registered in England under No. 2881024 and whose Registered Office is at Lumen House, Library Avenue, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire. OX11 0SG
participants (5)
-
Eugene Grosbein -
Martin List-Petersen -
Paul Civati -
Rob Evans -
Sven Olaf Kamphuis