Hello,

I also know several LIRs who would prefer to pay quarterly. And it’s correct that RIPE NCC dues isn’t a “address payment plan”, but a membership with voting rights.

Before we start talking about cost of commercial credit (it’s 3% monthly where I live, Ukraine, and that for local currency), I would like to know two facts:

1) number of LIRs (percentage) which paid their dues quarterly in 2018 (and 2017 too)

2) adjusted rate of default (members quitting without paying entire fee, 100%, or members quitting summertime, 50%), in proportion to membership count/revenue.

It’s not about “you are small Eastern European business without Dutch privilege of having 6% commercial credit, too bad.”

Well, there is always an option to charge that extra interest, which is 1/16 + 2/16 + 9/16 = 3/4 of cost of money, something like 5% of annual fee, to the payment plan. So why this wasn’t offered, make quarterly payments slightly larger — it would be better deal.

It can also be adjusted for churn rate. I want to hear board treasurer here.  And let’s not do tyranny of the majority. Peace!

— dk@

On Jan 16, 2019, at 03:29, Terrence Koeman <terrence@darkness-reigns.com> wrote:

Allowing quarterly payments on a yearly fee in the past definitely *was* an "indulgency". It's nowhere in the billing schedule.


It was a "gift" , because at the start of the year you owe RIPE the complete annual fee to get membership for a year. If they let you pay in quarterly terms and you pay 1/4th of the fee at the start of the year,  you still get membership for a *year* (and NOT membership for only the 1st quarter). Therefore they are essentially loaning you (extending credit for) the other 3/4ths: 1/4th for 3 months, 1/4th for 6 months and the last 1/4th for 9 months.


They charge 0% interest, while at 6% yearly interest (about market rate) this would normally cost (5.25 2nd + 10.50 3rd + 15.75 4th) = €31.50. And that's not even including compound interest or inflation. The last 1/4th they get is worth less than the first 1/4th due to inflation, so offering quarterly payments was not free for RIPE; they were losing money on it.


So, in fact this service RIPE offered was paid for by *all* members, not just the members paying quarterly. This change also rules out the liability to RIPE of members that pay in terms and then go bankrupt during the year, leaving RIPE out the rest of the terms. Or otherwise don't pay, causing RIPE to have to pay for, or spend time on, collection.


Since RIPE only gets money from membership fees, in the end will be the members that will have to pay for everything that costs RIPE money. Depending on the number of LIRs, due to this change, the annual membership fee will probably go down for all of us, or we will get (more) back at the end of the year.


Why am I against quarterly payments? Obviously the subsidizing explained above, but more importantly: like you, many others don't seem to get that RIPE membership is *not* a pay-as-you-need subscription. It's a *yearly* membership fee. You owe the full year up front and then you get membership for a full year. This is completely separate from how many terms they let you pay the fee in.


While you (and others) seem to think that the membership fee is like a phone subscription, in fact its more like buying a singular thing like a car. Some dealers also offer car sales where you can pay in terms or the second half of the purchase price after 2 years (or something like that) with 0% interest. But this is not free for them, it's essentially a *discount* they're providing you (as you'd have to pay a bank interest if you had to loan the money for those terms or 2 years somewhere else, you save money, while the car dealer incurs a loss due to inflation).


You get to take the car home immediately and start using it, but that doesn't mean the car purchase has now turned into a pay-as-you-need subscription. Its the same w/ the RIPE membership: you pay for a singular thing; *one* service. That one single service is *one* year of RIPE membership, and you get to, and can, use it immediately.


The constant confusion about the difference and resulting complaints and accusations on this list are a nuisance and we can do without them. Clearly the option for payment in terms for a singular annual fee is too complex for some, especially for some with more than one LIR.


I'm sure RIPE has had to waste a lot of time explaining this over and over and over, as people have on this list as well. So, they removed the complexity so it saves RIPE and us on the list time, nuisance & money.


IMO RIPE shouldn't have acted like a bank in the first place.


I hope this explains it :)


--
Regards,
   Terrence Koeman, PhD/MTh/BPsy
      Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V.

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