Lets talk about isp's also hording v4 space Sky 90.208.0.0/12 Virgin Media 86.23.16.0/20 [18:34] 86.23.0.0/18 [18:34] 86.37.0.0/17 [18:34] 86.36.192.0/18 [18:36] 92.232.20.0/22 All fully unused, maybe internal but i doubt it maybe we should ACTUALLY focus on the correct reasons on why we have ran out and why LIRs have declined. ________________________________ From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of ivaylo <ivaylo@bglans.net> Sent: 11 April 2024 18:32 To: Kaj Niemi <kajtzu@basen.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals By IANA Documents: 053/8 Daimler AG 1993-10 whois.ripe.net https://rdap.db.ripe.net/ LEGACY They are delegated to RIPE. All legacy resource holders must be asked to become LIRs or to find sponsoring LIR. If you dont route public resource, why do you then need and hold such ? Let they free it or pay for it as everyone else ! Ivaylo Josifov VarnaIX / Varteh LTD +359 52 969393 Varna, Bulgaria On Thu, 11 Apr 2024, Kaj Niemi wrote:
Daimler?s 53/8 is legacy addesss space as is the 25/8 for UK MoD. There are plenty of addresses that are outside of RIR control for legacy reasons.
Similarity addresses not being rooted on the internet doesn't mean they wouldn't be in use elsewhere.
There isn't really anything to "ignore".
Kaj
Sent from my iPhone
____________________________________________________________________________ From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of sdy@a-n-t.ru <sdy@a-n-t.ru> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2024 8:00 PM To: ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED <admin@roskomnadzor.io> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals Absolutely agree - it's abnormal situation.
But now looks like NCC bosses continue ignore it. May be they are under control on Mercedes-Benz or UK Ministry of Defence??? :-)
But really, it is look like, it is too difficult to reform charge scheme in this situation.
RIPE saying about last IPv4 /8 is run out, but stop...
IPv4 /8 - Mercedes-Benz Group AG https://apps.db.r/ ipe.net%2Fdb-web-ui%2Fquery%3Fbflag%3Dfalse%26dflag%3Dfalse%26rflag%3Dtrue %26searchtext%3D53.0.0.0%26source%3DRIPE&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d 340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C63848451623 7821753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CGALEu12rMr93jaKbr5Jd%2FSyL 1T1iEinoJQUm%2BfqbuI%3D&reserved=0 (over 50% of pool unused! Guess they even didnt have so much cars for so much IPs)
IPv4 /8 - UK Ministry of Defence https://apps.db.r/ ipe.net%2Fdb-web-ui%2Fquery%3Fbflag%3Dfalse%26dflag%3Dfalse%26rflag%3Dtrue %26searchtext%3D25.0.0.0%26source%3DRIPE&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d 340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C63848451623 7833186%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jY3r3II7kmzvQ8F4p44f392NTta rv%2F1bfIxkH7IwqIE%3D&reserved=0 (Never was announced - https://stat.ripe/ .net%2Fui2013%2F%252025.0.0.0%23tabId%3Dat-a-glance&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3 d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C 638484516237840815%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2l uMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XLApVhfQEEQc91fD 2v2V0QDRVGIthXqJvHaqs%2B6%2Bh4k%3D&reserved=0)
This members hold most biggest blocks in RIPE and didnt use it, but pay same - 50 EUR/year for this IPv4 /8.
When some LIRs have /8 and pay for that 50 EUR/year + 1600 EUR/year (membership fee), other members paying same amount for 1 x /24 (if they have luck!)
Its nonsense, why RIPE continue to funding more and more budgets from small LIRs?
Its looks not good. Its looks like a some lobby!
On 11.04.2024 15:52, Dmitry Kohmanyuk via members-discuss wrote:
On 11 Apr 2024, at 16:55, Evgeniy Brodskiy via members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net> wrote:
Confidential/?????????????>> Just a note: you are posting on mailing list which is archived so everyone can read every post, yours too. Perhaps that line was added automatically:)
Why do you think this statement is correct: ?They are the main source of work for RIPE employees.? ??
Even if you think about auditing or maintaining RIPE DB, it would be strange to think that working with /16 requires 256 times more time and effort than working with /24. If you think about different "non-MAIN" services like Learning, then there is no difference between big and small LIR at all. Resources do not reflect all of these dependencies. And again you are talking about fairness.
In the fairness of use of learning resources, RPKI, Training you are correct, yet we are talking about ?cost of doing business? resources. Since you seem to represent a biggest mobile telecom of Ukraine, Kyivstar, and also the only IPv6-enabled large ISP in the country (thanks for that btw) - what is your opinion re charging per resource allocated, either by category method, or logarithmic method, or some other (number of resources in use, objects in the database, etc.). Your company makes heavy use of IPv4 and has millions of subscribers: what does ?fair? sounds like to you? Do you support extra fees for those who have IPv4 available, or discount for those who have to make do with IPv6 only?
(Deleting hundreds of quoted lines below.)
? dk@hostmaster.ua ?We had IPv6 before Kyivstar?
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Mihail Fedorov Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2024 3:39 PM Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals
Charging per ASN is even worse than just price increase. It is terrible and killing even more LIRs
Imagine rather new LIR who is trying to do business based on what is LIR intended for - providing LIR services to consumers. For example 30 clients who requested ASN sponsorship during year. If charged per ASN they will pay twice more than huge corporations serving only purpose of their own. Those typically have just 1-2 ASNs and tons of resources attached to it. They are main source of work for RIPE staff and they should be funding expensive projects like Atlas and others.
Actually working LIRs also have business contracts/logic already established on current charging scheme and adding ASN fee will kill them.
Once again - why not just bill based on resources? It?s extremely easy. Oh, right, resource holders won?t like it :
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