Dear Marco, Aleksey and all, completely independent from this thread I had a discussion with a customer yesterday, which actually matches completely into this discussion. I'd like to call it "Quo vadis LIR?" Actually the hierarchical structure was meant to have the IANA who distributes number-resources (IP addresses) to RIR who then distribute them to LIR and they shall distribute it to end-users. So actually the LIR was responsible for validating end users requests, proper registration and documentation in the RIPE-database etc. and was meant to be knowing what he is technically doing. In the last couple of years (latest since last /8 was started to be distributed) there are two new types of LIR. On one hand we have the new LIR who is actually an end user. They have no idea of RIPE at all, very often they even do not have any technical knowledge and give a shit on e.g. properly registering their resources in the ripe DB. I'm not mad about those as now I am getting paid by them maintaining their LIR instead of doing my job as LIR, which now brings a much better revenue then assigning/leasing IP-space to them. Still I question if that is really a good idea, as more and more of the LIR-job is falling back to RIPE-NCC-Staff, because not all LIR of this type choose to consult someone to help them maintaining their resources. The second new type of LIR is, the type you brought up in ths thread. The LIR who actually only becomes LIR for making profit with something, they receive for free. If that is your kind of business and is how you think society shall work, ok... But please don't complain when finding out that "for free" is "a little more expensive than expected" after being confronted with the policies. [Minor side note: I am very surprised seeing Russia obviously became much more capitalistic in the meantime, than the "capitalistic enemies in Western Europe" had ever been.] Anyway, coming back to the LIR's job which needs to be handled by RIR now: I also see this manifested in the communication with NCC-staff. About 15 years ago, I had the impression that NCC-staff had much more confidence in the explanations a LIR sent them. Today I even need to explain in detail, what the registration-papers sent to them, actually mean (translate it to English at least), why e.g. one and the same company's registration-number can change in Germany (by moving from one City to another and needing to change registration court) and why the new registration number is opened days before the old registration is closed... So what I want to say with this is, that the NCC today does no longer have a real delegation for validation of end-users documents to a LIR, but already does validate every single paper and request on their own. Maybe because the know-how of the average LIR obviously decreased or the abuse of policy increased (choose your preferred reason). Is this really the right way? Maybe it would be better to return to the LIR who is really reasonably doing the LIRs job and give the end-users the possibility to "buy" IP from a LIR (who gets it from the RIR) under the same policies which exist now (Setup-Fee of 2000 EUR, being not allowed to transfer within two years ....) ... In my personal opinion we took the wrong exit some years ago. I assist a couple of "so called" LIR to maintain their resources and most of them admit, that they have no idea about RIPE and only wanted to get IPv4 addresses. Unfortunately not all LIR of that type buy assistance from a "LIR" in original sense of this word. Just my two cents to this discussion. Best regards and have a nice Christmas time (for those who celebrate it) Jens Am 18.12.18 um 12:02 schrieb Marco Schmidt:
Dear Aleksey and all,
We would like to clarify the situation because the policy refers to transfers between RIPE NCC members and not transfers between the LIR accounts that members might hold. A member may hold multiple LIR accounts.
Regarding the section that you refer to in the procedure, please see the mail that was sent to the NCC Announce mailing list in October: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-announce/2018-October/001286.htm...
This message explains how the RIPE NCC processes transfers of IPv4 address space or 16-bit ASNs due to a merger, acquisition or any other change in business structure.
We hope this clarifies that no policy violation has taken place. A merger or acquisition is possible at any time and must take place following the processes outlined in the email.
Kind regards,
Marco Schmidt Policy Officer RIPE NCC
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