I also want to strongly note that Lu started with talks about suing me - I just replied him why it makes no sense and he can save his money. I didn't start this argument and was *mainly* (yes, i wrote in very strong language to RIPE and accused Lu of many things which might be true or not, time will tell) on-business. Also don't get me wrong, Lu is not *not* the only one on my list, just the newest and largest one. I will report them to RIPE one-by-one until i am done and do not care for even a single second what you all think about this (i can report LIRs all i want, and i INSIST that 2 /15 in the ARIN region *ARE* a reason to request an audit), but RIPE did not provide me with *any* way to report a LIR for audit - And this is my main issue with them (for now). All i always wanted, and still want is a confirmation of RIPE that this LIR will be audited - Then i am happy, i have *some* trust left in the RIPE/NCC and cannot change the working policy (at least not now) anyway. -- William Weber | RIPE: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh william@edisglobal.com | william@edis.at | http://edis.at | http://as57169.net EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC Graz, Austria Am 21.11.2013 um 19:02 schrieb Sourish <sourish.ganguly@bssteleport.com>:
Dear William, I do understand your concern and appreciate that if you can take directly with RIPE NCC, instead of its members.
You have all the rights to ask for clear allocation, but probably your forum is wrong. Because no members are part of allocation in the RIPE.
Thanks for understanding
With Regards
Sourish
On 11/21/2013 06:47 PM, William Weber wrote:
I have no issue at all with Lu or his company - I have no issue with ISPs having a /8 either, if the justification is valid.
I have an issue with allocations and assignments that seem to be incorrect/wrong and that there is no way to verify possible misusage that can only be verified by a single party (=RIPE), don't forget: i TRIED to work this out with RIPE.
If the allocations are valid (and we see the proof for this) then i let him go, that's all i want - Currently we get nothing from RIPE (not even a confirmation that they *will* audit, that is *ALL* i wanted. Nothing more.).
Giving all the information with possible unlawful activity you might involved with(the reason government would investigate about you), I am very doubtfully wonder your profession and what is your really involvement with us. And why you need to run away from Europe. 6, now sit down and Google what Tor is and what a Tor exit does and how it helps the global community and in SPECIAL also the Chinese users. Why i "run"? (Trust me, if i wanted to run i'd be far gone in Africa by now.) Because the EU is a joke (and my political views are mine, you have no right to ask) and as Jew i have the right to migrate to Israel at any time, so this is the way of least resistance.
Last but not least, if you are not speaking for EDIS, and if your company are not yet a Ripe member, I think it is inappreicate for you to post in this list, as it is only for members. I could post under my LIR or another one, why would that matter to you? I could've also posted it in a forum outside of RIPE, and that out of pure generosity so that RIPE can do this internal.
Thanks for the support. I also wonder where this guy is coming from and what really is his problem with our business, as we really has nothing to do with him at all. and I personally has been actively involved in the Ripe policy working group for many years, we would seriously obey every Ripe policy, and end of the day, I see nothing wrong as playing the game fairly.
What i have to do with you? I see you announce 2 (TWO!!) RIPE /15 in the ARIN region so i report you to RIPE and escalate after ignoring, i see this as fully legitimate and as right for any RIPE member and non RIPEmember to report policy violating usage as obviously recommended by RIPE also. While doing this i obviously also check the background and report what i have to RIPE so they have more starting points for an investigation/audit.
-- William Weber william@edisglobal.com | william@edis.at | http://edis.at | http://as57169.net EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC Graz, Austria
Am 21.11.2013 um 17:52 schrieb H.Lu <h.lu@anytimechinese.com>:
Hi
For information: Just to be clear to every member, nor my company or me personally receive any message William has sent to us before, the only message I have read from william was on 14th Feb,2012, he replied my treads regarding member fees in the member mailing list.
And as I state in the last Email, I am at RIPE, AFRINIC,LACNIC,ICANN,IGF,and many other internet meetings, so I am not a guy not reachable, you can easily attend any of the meetings and talk to me in a coffee break. I believe many active members in the list can proof that for me. You might not remember my name, I am the big Chinese guy always being around in every Ripe meeting---and most time the only Chinese there as well. So if someone wants to talk to me, really don't need to go that far all the way to China to finds me, I live in the Europe, and I have been told I am more european thinking than Chinese by many people:)
For William: Giving all the information with possible unlawful activity you might involved with(the reason government would investigate about you), I am very doubtfully wonder your profession and what is your really involvement with us. And why you need to run away from Europe.
Both Slovenia/Austria are subject to European Law, and as my very limited knowledge about it, it is unlawful to obtain third party private financial information without court permission--even for any countries' government. I believe any level of LIR audit shouldn't involved illegal information or research about private company or private person's confidential information. This is way too far beyond simple Ripe's policy. I would appreciate fellow members does not support such unlawful investigation going on as if let it goes on, every of us might one day being disclose your private company data and your personal financial information just because other people think you have a bit bigger IP range than him.
Last but not least, if you are not speaking for EDIS, and if your company are not yet a Ripe member, I think it is inappreicate for you to post in this list, as it is only for members. But you still can post on the policy mailing list, and we are very happy to hear what policy experts has to say about our activity, although we are very carefully read though every policy and make sure our activity does not conflicts with Ripe policy, due to the scale of our operation, we might miss one or two things, and if it has been pointed out, we are very happy to correct it.
For Christian:
Thanks for the support. I also wonder where this guy is coming from and what really is his problem with our business, as we really has nothing to do with him at all. and I personally has been actively involved in the Ripe policy working group for many years, we would seriously obey every Ripe policy, and end of the day, I see nothing wrong as playing the game fairly.
Kind regards
Lu
On 2013-11-21, at 下午1:12, William Weber <ripe-members-discussion@edisglobal.com> wrote:
Hello together,
So so so, finally he can reply - Hello there Mr. Lu, why were my previous contact tries ignored?
I was in fact AT YOUR ADDRESS in Holland in 2012, nobody there - I would have someone sent to your address in China also, but that one is unclear described.
I wondering where you have the inaccurate income data about me personally and my private company as well I do not need to share any sources (what is this, the PLA?), all data was obtained legally in my country of residence (Slovenia) and Austria - I can not vouch for correctness but in the past it was usually near the expected. Not like your data is secret in the Netherlands.
making an criminal charge(corruption) to Ripe NCC, inaccurate publish our private income data in the public space without supporting evidence are very serious offense under european law, although my lawyer strongly suggest him to write the letter, I insists my self to write here just because I would appreciate member's understanding and community's support.
I'm not sure what gives you the idea that Dutch law would be applicable to me in Slovenia/Austaira (or at all, considering that Slovenia/Austria as per constitution cannot extradict citizens)?
The statement of mine - *POSSIBLE* bribe - Is fully legal to make, even the implication of it would be - The RIPE ticket system is also not the public and neither is the mailing list, it is a closed system.
You can sue me all you want, i have not much to loose currently, and once cleared move to Israel which does neither extradict nor care much about Europe. The Austrian police confiscated my hardware 2012 and 2013, the Austrian police investigates my financial transactions, the Polish police wants to see me in jail (and has an order for that), Hongkong authorities are not amused, my phones and internet is taped, i am being followed by the Austrian police.
Just google my name and add "tor" and you get an image, you (and no one else) can threaten me with "law" anymore.
I will reply more lenghty later, because even though the Austrian government does not like me they still send me invitations to broadband expansion forums and force me to attend and speak.
Also, most here agree with me and you CLEARLY violate RIPE policies with the ARIN routing and others - So *you* are the one that should explain himself, not me.
This is also a note: The statements here are fully personal or statements of my own companies, not EDIS GmbH which is however one LIR i represent.
-- William Weber | RIPE: WW | LIR: william@william.si
Am 21.11.2013 um 16:44 schrieb "H.Lu" <h.lu@anytimechinese.com>:
Hi
We do not want to sue "anybody" here, sorry for mistyping English.
we followed all the process in the Ripe region, and I personally involved and participated in the Ripe policy development process,
To inasset network:
I wonder how you as single organization define "best interest of ripe member" and justifying other member's IP usage? Kind regards
Lu
On 2013-11-21, at 下午12:26, "Administration - [ inAsset Networks ]" <admin@inasset.es> wrote:
Good Afternoon (in Europe)
Mr. Lu, we will follow your activities closely, and see if RIPE NCC takes action in the event the use of your assigned space is not in the best interest of its members.
For now, we would like to know why you are announcing RIPE NCC space in ARIN.
Administration - [ inAsset Networks ]
El 21/11/2013, a las 16:02, H.Lu <h.lu@anytimechinese.com> escribió:
> Hi: > > What a surprise morning. > > I think it was talking about me and my company. > > To clarify few things, the justification process of our application took very long in ripe NCC and I believe ripe NCC investigate about us heavily in the major service we provided at the time of it being justified. and corruption claim are very much inappreicate and I would ask you apologizes to Ripe NCC. > > Me as individual as been actively involved in the ripe community in past 5 years, and I believe most active member in the list knowing me personally. > > I wondering where you have the inaccurate income data about me personally and my private company as well. as it can not be obtain legally and the data was not correct. I personally owing quite few companies worldwide but they are all private companies I do not feel the need to share our financial details publicly. > > Most part of our business are confidential so sorry we can not provide more details here, like every request, Member base are trusting Ripe NCC to make the right decision at the time of application. That is how business really works, only Ripe NCC has rights to getting into confidential area of member's business, otherwise I believe every member would have to publish > every detail about their business to the public. > > And I would ask if you do have more questions for me, as long as it is not confidential, I'd like to share my stories with you. Please do not bother Ripe NCC for this matter any more. > > At this point, Ripe NCC are just a book keeper for its members and Ripe community, they are not police force, if you do feel we have some unlawful practice--thought I seriously doubt about it, please contact related law enforcement and we are very happy to assist in the matter with them. > > Last but not least, as I just had phone call with my lawyer, making an criminal charge(corruption) to Ripe NCC, inaccurate publish our private income data in the public space without supporting evidence are very serious offense under european law, although my lawyer strongly suggest him to write the letter, I insists my self to write here just because I would appreciate member's understanding and community's support. > > Let me know if you still have more questions. > > > > Kind regards > > Lu > > On 2013-11-21, at 上午11:05, William Weber <ripe-members-discussion@edisglobal.com> wrote: > >> As RIPE seems to have decided that i can be ignored and no one needs to reply to me i make this public now as threatened to them before - See Dear Andrew, i don't care what you say - if you don't reply me with anything useful then i take steps to get others involved. >> This is not the first time i reported a LIR for evaluation and was ignored. >> >> I waited over a month for any reply and sent multiple follow up mails, no replies and the ticket is "open" in the Lirportal, now the last reply i got was again useless and without any interest (No Andrew, i cannot use the LIR<>LIR report form to report LIR<>RIPE, i can't even enter that there.) >> >> Theres some more fun to be had, here's a text i prepared before i sent my mail to RIPE after some investigations (which merely took 10 minutes time and a few calls to some associates) - Now, isn't that proof enough for an evaluation? >> I think so and the other LIRs i represent do as well, but make your own picture. >> >> -- >> Today we follow an interesting 'ISP' which is based on a sole-trader in the Netherlands which managed to have RIPE/Afrinic/ARIN assign him IPv4 space totaling to a /8: >> >> His name is Heng Lu, also known as "OutsideHeaven" - http://outsideheaven.com >> Seemingly based in the Netherlands Lu is of Chinese origin and does (as far as informations go) not live in Europe at all. >> >> First being a customer of OVH and having his IP space announced on OVHs AS now most space seems to be announced by Los Angeles based ISP Multacom (AS35916). >> >> A short view on the website shows that no real services are provided yet massive amounts of IPs are registered to him personally, him as sole trader or his companies at all RIRs: >> >> 154.80.0.0/12 - Afrinic - 1.048.574 IPs >> >> This is an AFRINIC net assigned to a company in the Seychelles ("Abacus (Seychelles) Limited"), the Person handle and mail shows the connection to OutsideHeaven. >> The network itself contains smaller assignments, all with the descr of "CloudInnovation infrastructure" and various countries set (AD, SD, YT….), most IPs are not announced at all and seem unused. >> >> >> 5.224.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs >> >> A RIPE network from 2012.09 announced by Multacom in LAX outside of the RIPE region. >> Seems unused. >> >> 5.132.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65000 IPs >> >> RIPE network dating to 2012.07 (Just 3 months after the /15 was allocated, exactly the timeframe RIPE required a space to be used in to get a new one…), announced on OVH. >> >> 37.222.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs >> >> Yet another RIPE network from 2012.04 (who can spell 'bribe'?) announced by OVH on France, unused as well. >> >> >> 46.136.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65000 IPs >> >> Allocated 2010.11 - Announced by a datacenter in the Netherlands, unused. >> >> >> 31.201.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65000 IPs >> >> 2011.04 - Announced in LAX/Multacom. >> >> List (not complete, there is more smaller assignments on him): >> 154.80.0.0/12 - Afrinic - 1.048.574 IPs >> 185.2.48.0/22 - RIPE - 1024 IPs - 2012.09 >> 5.224.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.09 >> 5.132.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2012.07 >> 37.222.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.04 >> 31.201.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2011.04 >> 46.136.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2010.11 >> 178.236.224.0/20 - RIPE - 4096 IPs - 2010.06 >> -- >> >> >> >> >> William Weber | RIPE Person: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh (among others) >> william@edisglobal.com | william@william.si | http://edis.at | http://as57169.net >> EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC >> Maribor, Slovenia >> >> >> >> Anfang der weitergeleiteten Nachricht: >> >>> Von: William Weber <william@edis.at> >>> Betreff: Aw: NCC#2013100726 Complaint against a LIR >>> Datum: 09. Oktober 2013 13:18:36 MESZ >>> An: Andrew de la Haye <andrew@ripe.net> >>> >>> Dear Andrew, >>> >>> And who verified that these 2 analysts were not bribed... i know guys buying /12s by bribing AFRINIC officials (in fact, the same LIR as this mail is about "bought" space there also, 154.80.0.0/12) and this isn't unheard in LACNIC/APNIC either, so what tells me RIPE did/does not do the same... >>> >>> Sorry, but this is not really any better now: >>> >>> This guy "accidentally" sits in Amsterdam as well, not even far from you, being Chinese(!) with barely 3000EUR income reports filled 2012/2013 in the Netherlands for his BVs and his sole trader status and has one of the largest total >>> allocations in the entire RIPE region? >>> >>> How can he announce 2(!) *ENTIRE* /15 from an ARIN ASN in Los Angeles while i and others got contacted by RIPE about a measly /24 on an ARIN ASN? >>> >>> Why do his assignments make no sense, look auto generated and never contain any end-user data? Why was this not verified at add-alloc? >>> >>> How does he use over a million IPs on a 100Mbit uplink to his upstream provider? >>> >>> This all is still very fishy and not really impressive... >>> >>> >>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards, >>> William Weber >>> >>> -- >>> EDIS GmbH >>> NOC >>> Hauptplatz 3/3 >>> 8010 Graz >>> Austria >>> Umsatzsteuer-ID: ATU 64124511 >>> Firmenbuch: FN 308697t >>> >>> phone: +43 316 827 500 >>> fax: +43 316 827 500 777 >>> http://www.edis.at >>> >>> This message was sent by EDIS GmbH, it is STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL and is solely for the individual or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication and its contents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us at support@edis.at and delete it from your computer. >>> >>> >>> Am 08.10.2013 um 11:55 schrieb Andrew de la Haye <andrew@ripe.net>: >>> >>>> Dear William, >>>> >>>> We take your allegations very seriously. As such, your ticket has been escalated to me by Andrea Cima, manager of the RIPE NCC's Registration Services Department. >>>> >>>> Before the RIPE NCC reached the last /8 of IPv4 address space, we implemented a temporarily enhanced allocation procedure to ensure a fair, neutral and well-documented IPv4 run-out. >>>> >>>> This procedure was communicated to our membership and community at meetings, via the Address Policy Working Group Mailing List, and via our website. You can find the complete description at: >>>> https://ripe65.ripe.net/presentations/204-last_slash_8_NCC_Services.pdf >>>> >>>> Measures were taken to ensure our members' needs were filled on a first-come, first-served basis, and to ensure that we followed due diligence. Each request was evaluated by two IP Resource Analysts. Furthermore, all large requests (/15 PA or /18 PI or more) were rigorously evaluated by Registration Services Management, checked for policy compliance by our Policy Development Officer, and were finally approved by two RIPE NCC Senior Managers. >>>> >>>> The IPv4 requests you have listed followed this process completely and, based on the information we received, were entirely justified. >>>> >>>> If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me. >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> >>>> Andrew de la Haye >>>> Chief Operations Officer >>>> RIPE NCC >>>> >>>> Singel 258 >>>> 1016 AB Amsterdam >>>> the Netherlands >>>> andrew@ripe.net >>>> tel: +31 20 535 4444 >>>> fax: +31 20 535 4445 >>> >> >> >> Am 07.10.2013 um 14:29 schrieb RIPE NCC Hostmaster <hostmaster@ripe.net>: >> >>> >>> Dear William, >>> >>> As requested I have escalated your complaint to the RIPE NCC Senior >>> Management. >>> >>> They will come back to you ASAP. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Andrea Cima >>> >>> RIPE NCC >>> >>> >>> On Fri, 4 Oct 2013 16:11:37 +0200, William Weber wrote: >>>> Dear Andrea, >>>> >>>> So if there is no proof for a bribe you do as it does not exist at all? >>>> Why did no one tell me this before, i would have come with a suitcase of cash to AMS... Seriously, this statement is worse than what 3rd world dictators state all the time about bribery... >>>> >>>> Considering that RIPE members have no access to other RIPE members add-alloc (or any other) forms it is also entirely *impossible* to prove lies in them (hey, how should i do that if i can't read them at all?) - Thus it clearly is your obligation to verify this claims OR provide the accuser with access to a system to verify it himself. >>>> >>>> It is by itself alone VERY suspicious that the single largest allocation for weeks is allocated 8 days before the last /8 is reached to an unknown sole trader without any business.... yes, i think i have enough 'proof' to get this verified by the RIPE, please escalate it to whoever you think is appropriate or i will do so myself today at 00:00 via the RIPE mailing list to ALL members. >>>> >>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards, >>>> William Weber >>>> >>>> -- >>>> EDIS GmbH >>>> NOC >>>> >>>> >>>> Am 04.10.2013 um 15:52 schrieb RIPE NCC Hostmaster <hostmaster@ripe.net>: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear William, >>>>> >>>>> All allocations are issued based on RIPE policy and documentation that >>>>> demonstrates the need for those resources. The information provided by >>>>> members is confidential and cannot be shared with other members. >>>>> >>>>> If you have proof that a member has provided false information to the >>>>> RIPE NCC, please provide us this proof. Based on this we can then >>>>> start evaluating the claims and take appropriate actions. The same >>>>> counts for your accusation of a RIPE NCC emloyee having received a >>>>> bribe, which is a very serious accusation, that we do not take >>>>> lightly. >>>>> >>>>> Finally it seems there is a misunderstanding about the date on which >>>>> the RIPE NCC has reached its last /8 policy. The correct date is 14 >>>>> September 2012. Please find the official announcement at: >>>>> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-services-wg/2012-September/001825... >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards, >>>>> >>>>> Andrea Cima >>>>> Registration Services Manager >>>>> RIPE NCC >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 13:49:32 +0200, William Weber wrote: >>>>>> x-ncc-regid: at.edisgmbh (and at.<removed>, li.<removed>, li.<removed>, plus representing <removed> and <removed>) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, i have to complain again to evaluate someone.... >>>>>> >>>>>> LIR is nl.outsideheaven >>>>>> >>>>>> I am 100% sure that the allocation of his netblocks have either used false data in the add-alloc forms, plain lies or bribes (which i see as the most likely) - His company has no trading activity in any country (verified with Dutch and Chinese tax authorities) and nothing that would justify the usage of this amounts of IPv4 space. >>>>>> His usage of some of them also violates RIPE rules, most are for example not even announced inside the RIPE region but originate from AS35916 (Multacom in Los Angeles, USA) solely. >>>>>> The assignments while RIPE already reached the last /8 are very questionable as well and overturning a members and board decision. >>>>>> >>>>>> 185.2.48.0/22 - RIPE - 1024 IPs - 2012.09 >>>>>> -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE >>>>>> >>>>>> 5.224.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.09 >>>>>> -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE >>>>>> -> How was he able to obtain a /15 5 months AFTER RIPE reached the last /8? >>>>>> >>>>>> 5.132.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2012.07 >>>>>> -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE >>>>>> -> How was he able to obtain a /16 3 months AFTER RIPE reached the last /8? >>>>>> >>>>>> 37.222.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.04 >>>>>> -> How was he able to obtain a /15 1 month AFTER RIPE reached the last /8? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 31.201.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2011.04 >>>>>> -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards, >>>>>> William Weber >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> EDIS GmbH >>>>>> NOC >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
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