Absolutely agree - it's abnormal situation.

But now looks like NCC bosses continue ignore it. May be they are under
control on Mercedes-Benz or UK Ministry of Defence??? :-)

But really, it is look like, it is too difficult to reform charge scheme
in this situation.

> RIPE saying about last IPv4 /8 is run out, but stop...
>
> IPv4 /8 - Mercedes-Benz Group AG
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fapps.db.ripe.net%2Fdb-web-ui%2Fquery%3Fbflag%3Dfalse%26dflag%3Dfalse%26rflag%3Dtrue%26searchtext%3D53.0.0.0%26source%3DRIPE&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237821753%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CGALEu12rMr93jaKbr5Jd%2FSyL1T1iEinoJQUm%2BfqbuI%3D&reserved=0
> (over 50% of pool unused! Guess they even didnt have so much cars for so
> much IPs)
>
> IPv4 /8 - UK Ministry of Defence
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fapps.db.ripe.net%2Fdb-web-ui%2Fquery%3Fbflag%3Dfalse%26dflag%3Dfalse%26rflag%3Dtrue%26searchtext%3D25.0.0.0%26source%3DRIPE&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237833186%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jY3r3II7kmzvQ8F4p44f392NTtarv%2F1bfIxkH7IwqIE%3D&reserved=0
> (Never was announced -
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstat.ripe.net%2Fui2013%2F%252025.0.0.0%23tabId%3Dat-a-glance&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cc7c3d19a075141d340b908dc5a48df1e%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638484516237840815%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XLApVhfQEEQc91fD2v2V0QDRVGIthXqJvHaqs%2B6%2Bh4k%3D&reserved=0)
>
> This members hold most biggest blocks in RIPE and didnt use it, but pay
> same - 50 EUR/year for this IPv4 /8.
>
> When some LIRs have /8 and pay for that 50 EUR/year + 1600 EUR/year
> (membership fee), other members paying same amount for 1 x /24 (if they
> have luck!)
>
> Its nonsense, why RIPE continue to funding more and more budgets from
> small LIRs?
>
> Its looks not good. Its looks like a some lobby!
>
> On 11.04.2024 15:52, Dmitry Kohmanyuk via members-discuss wrote:
>> On 11 Apr 2024, at 16:55, Evgeniy Brodskiy via members-discuss
>> <members-discuss@ripe.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Confidential/Конфіденційно
>>
>> Just a note: you are posting on mailing list which is archived so
>> everyone can read every post, yours too. Perhaps that line was added
>> automatically:)
>>
>>>
>>> Why do you think this statement is correct: “They are the main source
>>> of work for RIPE employees.” ??
>>>
>>> Even if you think about auditing or maintaining RIPE DB, it would be
>>> strange to think that working with /16 requires 256 times more time and
>>> effort than working with /24.
>>> If you think about different "non-MAIN" services like Learning, then
>>> there is no difference between big and small LIR at all.
>>> Resources do not reflect all of these dependencies. And again you are
>>> talking about fairness.
>>
>> In the fairness of use of learning resources, RPKI, Training you are
>> correct, yet we are talking about “cost of doing business” resources.
>> Since you seem to represent a biggest mobile telecom of Ukraine,
>> Kyivstar, and also the only IPv6-enabled large ISP in the country
>> (thanks for that btw) - what is your opinion re charging per resource
>> allocated, either by category method, or logarithmic method, or some
>> other (number of resources in use, objects in the database, etc.). Your
>> company makes heavy use of IPv4 and has millions of subscribers: what
>> does “fair” sounds like to you? Do you support extra fees for those who
>> have IPv4 available, or discount for those who have to make do with IPv6
>> only?
>>
>> (Deleting hundreds of quoted lines below.)
>>
>> — dk@hostmaster.ua “We had IPv6 before Kyivstar”
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of
>>> Mihail Fedorov
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2024 3:39 PM
>>> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net
>>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC
>>> Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals
>>>
>>> Charging per ASN is even worse than just price increase. It is terrible
>>> and killing even more LIRs
>>>
>>> Imagine rather new LIR who is trying to do business based on what is
>>> LIR intended for - providing LIR services to consumers. For example 30
>>> clients who requested ASN sponsorship during year.
>>> If charged per ASN they will pay twice more than huge corporations
>>> serving only purpose of their own. Those typically have just 1-2 ASNs
>>> and tons of resources attached to it. They are main source of work for
>>> RIPE staff and they should be funding expensive projects like Atlas and
>>> others.
>>>
>>> Actually working LIRs also have business contracts/logic already
>>> established on current charging scheme and adding ASN fee will kill
>>> them.
>>>
>>> Once again - why not just bill based on resources? It’s extremely easy.
>>> Oh, right, resource holders won’t like it :
>>
>>
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-----------------------------
С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий
ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком"
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