Hello.
Because RIPE budget includes many different things - financing research, Atlas and other very important and useful things, not only cost of registry operating. You can not assume that this two LIRs in example should finance that equally without aim to kill second LIR.
This example is missing one important thing - really small LIRs with single subnet or without any - hobbynet LIRs or small companies who decided to be independent or just starting LIR business. There are also lots of LIRs who are natural persons. Regardless of their consumption assuming they should sponsor research or Atlas equally is terrible.
That’s why all other RIRs have different level based charging scheme. RIPE is the only one who constantly refuses to apply it.
On 16 Apr 2024, at 11:36, Evgeniy Brodskiy via members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net> wrote:
Confidential/КонфіденційноDear Murat TERZIOGLU,Why you make a decision that Mercedes-Benz need more RIPE staff time and spends comparing to your another LIR ??Because we are talking about RIPE budget which convert in RIPE spends. And if both LIRs consume equivale spends from RIPE budget why they have to pay different fee ?-----Original Message-----From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of m.terzioglu@prebits.deSent: Tuesday, April 16, 2024 10:51 AMTo: members-discuss@ripe.netSubject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 ProposalsInteresting...Mercedes-Benz has 16 x IPv4 allocations:1 x /813 x /212 x /22will pay in new scheme (one option)2650€ / yearAnother LIR, has 16 x IPv4 allocations:16 x /24will pay in new scheme also (one option) 2650€ / yearYes, i know, it wasnt different before. But i am new and i am asking general questions...RIPE is non-profit organisation but the small LIRs are paying for the bigger LIRs.Because they are older than many players in world, they use the resources on shoulders of the smaller players.YES, THESE RESOURCES ARE PUBLIC!!!Dear RIPE community, would you please pay my launch today, and always? Because this is only available here :)--Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best RegardsMurat TERZIOGLUPREBITSBochumer Str. 2044866 BochumDeutschlandTelefon: 0234/58825994Telefax: 0234/58825995http://www.prebits.de/info@prebits.deUSt-ID: DE315418902-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Im Auftrag von ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITEDGesendet: Montag, 15. April 2024 23:24An: Evgeniy Brodskiy <Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net>Cc: members-discuss@ripe.netBetreff: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals1) Land is end limited resource - like a IP pool2) Managed by single legacy monopoly - like a RIR in region3) Have market price - like a current IP on market4) Can be only holded by specific time - like a IP PA addressesIP already a some sort of property what are you can rent/lease/sell/buy.Big holders making a lobby for pay minimal amount for himself.And current RIPE policy doing one main thing - making small LIRs for paying same amount as large holders.Im make a list of top 88 most bigger holders in RIPE region and...IF any of this 88 Extra Large LIRs pay for 500.000 EUR - budget of RIPE will be instantly fullfilled, and for this companies this amount will not be a high!1) UK MoD2) Mersedes-Benz3) Orange4) Free SAS5) WIND TRE S.P.A. (Italia)6) Telecom Italia S.p.A.7) Deutsche Telekom AG8) British Telecommunications PLC...and more, and moreThis companies have a super high budgets and can pay that even without trouble...BUT this companies will NOT be do that! Because prefer to send all spending on someone else - i.e. small LIRs.RIPE is important for all, but why take RIPE take fee preferred from small LIRs? Huh?Why LIR with 0 IPv4, 1 ASN and 1 IPv4 /48, must pay same as Orange, Deutsche Telekom AG, British Telecommunications PLC, KYIVSTAR and other big telecoms?On 15.04.2024 21:05, Evgeniy Brodskiy wrote:Confidential/Конфіденційно
An interesting approach is to treat to IPs like a land, take taxes, fee as % of deal price, etc.
And if we don't stop a halfway. Since land is property with all the attendant rights and limits of ownership, the IPs will also become a property. This appears to be the ultimate goal of such proposals.
Not sure that thing like this is what the community really needs.
-----Original Message-----
From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of
ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2024 10:49 AM
To: Michel Lanners <michel.lanners@lu-cix.lu>;
members-discuss@ripe.net
Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC
Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals
Holders of IPv4 are same as holders of land.
Being member of RIPE mean you have ability to have resources (aka
land) and vote. (like a being citizenship give only 1 (ONE) vote -
doesnt matter how much taxes you pay per year!)
But in addition you must pay per resources what you have/own - like a land tax.
RIPE NCC is registered in NL, NL is part of EU, so - EU principes must be also apply in same way!
So, in EU land taxes usually payed per (sq.m in own OR market price), nor per registered object in own.
Moreover, in EU also present tax on selling operations - i.e. if someone sell resources (aka land) - its must also pay some fee as % of deal price, but RIPE didnt charge for that (what are also unfair).
P.S.
Michael, Im also want to remember you about that -
https://www/.
lu-cix.lu%2Fapp%2Fuploads%2F2024%2F01%2FLU-CIX-ASBL-new-price-list-2&d
ata=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C860a06771bd946d991ab08
dc5dea2f7d%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C63848850762336
3489%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT
iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IGEldOP%2FLElKUMIkuwH7ER8
izGZ6FYFg1GeY4Df0LEo%3D&reserved=0
024.pdf LU-CIX non-profit organization, but your pricing different
from port bandwidth (why not same price for all?) - but you calling people about "same price" is good for RIPE.
Im really doesnt understand you. Sorry.
On 15.04.2024 7:22, Michel Lanners wrote:
On 13 Apr 2024, at 18:35, Blake Shepherd <blake66@live.co.uk> wrote:
Please can you tell me how this company and alot of others.
https://bgp/
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Pays the same as me please show me how ripe is equal or fair please
do something and add a fee per ipv4 and ipv6 it's not hard to make it fair.
Because RIPE is a MEMBERSHIP organisation. It’s not a commercial
company selling something.
If I’m asked to pay more I also want more voting rights. Consequence:
the few big ones will dominate and steer RIPE in the direction THEY
want. I don’t think that’s in the interest of those who yell at the
unfair membership rate.
RIPE is fair because every member has the same right and the same one vote.
*Michel LANNERS*
CIO at LU-CIX Management G.I.E.
--
<https://www/
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332c5d49e6cde908dc5d215a63%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0
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I
joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=E12f
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Luxchat: @3eb2pdflrq57:01.lu-cix.luxchat.lu
Phone: (+352) 28 99 29 92-81
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202, Z.A.E. Wolser F
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luxchat.lu
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<https://lux/
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