"Because RIPE budget includes many different things - financing research, Atlas and other very important and useful things, not only cost of registry operating."

Should they though, that is my question? These are not core functions for a RIR. Maintaining internet resource registry is.
To me this looks more like organisational bloat.
For my organisation RIPE atlas is useless for instance, we have never used any of the "free" training and never attended any of the events. We still pay that member fee though for that core function.
But in your example we should pay more to support these "important" services because we happen to mentain more IPv4 address space.
--
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Doru Serdin
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E-mail: doru.serdin@mediasat.ro

www.mediasat.ro

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Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of my firm shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it.

 

On 16.04.2024 3:09 PM, Mihail Fedorov wrote:
Hello.

Because RIPE budget includes many different things - financing research, Atlas and other very important and useful things, not only cost of registry operating. You can not assume that this two LIRs in example should finance that equally without aim to kill second LIR.

This example is missing one important thing - really small LIRs with single subnet or without any - hobbynet LIRs or small companies who decided to be independent or just starting LIR business. There are also lots of LIRs who are natural persons. Regardless of their consumption assuming they should sponsor research or Atlas equally is terrible.

That’s why all other RIRs have different level based charging scheme. RIPE is the only one who constantly refuses to apply it.

On 16 Apr 2024, at 11:36, Evgeniy Brodskiy via members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net> wrote:

Confidential/Конфіденційно

Dear Murat TERZIOGLU,

Why you make a decision that Mercedes-Benz need more RIPE staff time and spends comparing to your another LIR ??
Because we are talking about RIPE budget which convert in RIPE spends. And if both LIRs consume equivale spends from RIPE budget why they have to pay different fee ?


-----Original Message-----
From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of m.terzioglu@prebits.de
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2024 10:51 AM
To: members-discuss@ripe.net
Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals

Interesting...

Mercedes-Benz has 16 x IPv4 allocations:
1 x /8
13 x /21
2 x /22
will pay in new scheme (one option)
2650€ / year


Another LIR, has 16 x IPv4 allocations:
16 x /24
will pay in new scheme also (one option) 2650€ / year

Yes, i know, it wasnt different before. But i am new and i am asking general questions...

RIPE is non-profit organisation but the small LIRs are paying for the bigger LIRs.

Because they are older than many players in world, they use the resources on shoulders of the smaller players.

YES, THESE RESOURCES ARE PUBLIC!!!


Dear RIPE community, would you please pay my launch today, and always? Because this is only available here :)

--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards

Murat TERZIOGLU
PREBITS

Bochumer Str. 20
44866 Bochum
Deutschland

Telefon: 0234/58825994
Telefax: 0234/58825995

http://www.prebits.de/
info@prebits.de

USt-ID: DE315418902


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Im Auftrag von ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED
Gesendet: Montag, 15. April 2024 23:24
An: Evgeniy Brodskiy <Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net>
Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net
Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals

1) Land is end limited resource - like a IP pool
2) Managed by single legacy monopoly - like a RIR in region
3) Have market price - like a current IP on market
4) Can be only holded by specific time - like a IP PA addresses

IP already a some sort of property what are you can rent/lease/sell/buy.
Big holders making a lobby for pay minimal amount for himself.
And current RIPE policy doing one main thing - making small LIRs for paying same amount as large holders.

Im make a list of top 88 most bigger holders in RIPE region and...

IF any of this 88 Extra Large LIRs pay for 500.000 EUR - budget of RIPE will be instantly fullfilled, and for this companies this amount will not be a high!

1) UK MoD
2) Mersedes-Benz
3) Orange
4) Free SAS
5) WIND TRE S.P.A. (Italia)
6) Telecom Italia S.p.A.
7) Deutsche Telekom AG
8) British Telecommunications PLC
...
and more, and more

This companies have a super high budgets and can pay that even without trouble...

BUT this companies will NOT be do that! Because prefer to send all spending on someone else - i.e. small LIRs.

RIPE is important for all, but why take RIPE take fee preferred from small LIRs? Huh?

Why LIR with 0 IPv4, 1 ASN and 1 IPv4 /48, must pay same as Orange, Deutsche Telekom AG, British Telecommunications PLC, KYIVSTAR and other big telecoms?

On 15.04.2024 21:05, Evgeniy Brodskiy wrote:
Confidential/Конфіденційно

An interesting approach is to treat to IPs like a land, take taxes, fee as % of deal price, etc.
And if we don't stop a halfway. Since land is property with all the attendant rights and limits of ownership, the IPs will also become a property. This appears to be the ultimate goal of such proposals.

Not sure that thing like this is what the community really needs.


-----Original Message-----
From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of
ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2024 10:49 AM
To: Michel Lanners <michel.lanners@lu-cix.lu>;
members-discuss@ripe.net
Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Draft RIPE NCC
Charging Scheme 2025 Proposals

Holders of IPv4 are same as holders of land.

Being member of RIPE mean you have ability to have resources (aka
land) and vote. (like a being citizenship give only 1 (ONE) vote -
doesnt matter how much taxes you pay per year!)

But in addition you must pay per resources what you have/own - like a land tax.

RIPE NCC is registered in NL, NL is part of EU, so - EU principes must be also apply in same way!

So, in EU land taxes usually payed per (sq.m in own OR market price), nor per registered object in own.

Moreover, in EU also present tax on selling operations - i.e. if someone sell resources (aka land) - its must also pay some fee as % of deal price, but RIPE didnt charge for that (what are also unfair).

P.S.
Michael, Im also want to remember you about that -
https://www/.
lu-cix.lu%2Fapp%2Fuploads%2F2024%2F01%2FLU-CIX-ASBL-new-price-list-2&d
ata=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C860a06771bd946d991ab08
dc5dea2f7d%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C63848850762336
3489%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT
iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IGEldOP%2FLElKUMIkuwH7ER8
izGZ6FYFg1GeY4Df0LEo%3D&reserved=0
024.pdf LU-CIX non-profit organization, but your pricing different
from port bandwidth (why not same price for all?) - but you calling people about "same price" is good for RIPE.
Im really doesnt understand you. Sorry.

On 15.04.2024 7:22, Michel Lanners wrote:
On 13 Apr 2024, at 18:35, Blake Shepherd <blake66@live.co.uk> wrote:

Please can you tell me how this company and alot of others.

https://bgp/
.tools%2Frir-owner%2Fuk.btent&data=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyiv
s
tar.net%7Ce4e8a4332c5d49e6cde908dc5d215a63%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8
e
70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C638487645323443698%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIj
o
iMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C60000%
7
C%7C%7C&sdata=Lu7Kf9N5olxNSkGwrc0wVdjKyafXx9P%2F2zBqy%2FIVzsU%3D&res
e
rved=0

https://bgp/
.tools%2Frir-owner%2Fuk.btgia&data=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyiv
s
tar.net%7Ce4e8a4332c5d49e6cde908dc5d215a63%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8
e
70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C638487645323451250%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIj
o
iMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C60000%
7
C%7C%7C&sdata=z7yGYhxpJQfmVlH9w6WNUQybDNsnpoLzuhacZZs%2BHEo%3D&reser
v
ed=0

Pays the same as me please show me how ripe is equal or fair please
do something and add a fee per ipv4 and ipv6 it's not hard to make it fair.

Because RIPE is a MEMBERSHIP organisation. It’s not a commercial
company selling something.

If I’m asked to pay more I also want more voting rights. Consequence:
the few big ones will dominate and steer RIPE in the direction THEY
want. I don’t think that’s in the interest of those who yell at the
unfair membership rate.

RIPE is fair because every member has the same right and the same one vote.


*Michel LANNERS*
CIO at LU-CIX Management G.I.E.
--
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I
joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=E12f
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Luxchat: @3eb2pdflrq57:01.lu-cix.luxchat.lu
Phone: (+352) 28 99 29 92-81
*LU-CIX Management G.I.E.*
202, Z.A.E. Wolser F
L-3290 Bettembourg
lu-cix.lu
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3
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C638487645323463707%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI
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oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gOIpC
k Q%2Fs02jD74QdFTvgD0oN6%2B8TRb211MlXgm03Hs%3D&reserved=0>
luxchat.lu
<https://www/
.luxchat.lu%2F&data=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7Ce4e8a
4
332c5d49e6cde908dc5d215a63%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0
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a cs%2FE%2FLVtOT1c6Ub9PJ5WWM0yY1v09o4JdnVdw0%3D&reserved=0>
luxembourg-internet-days.com
<https://lux/
embourg-internet-days.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyivst
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r.net%7Ce4e8a4332c5d49e6cde908dc5d215a63%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70
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30986%7C0%7C0%7C638487645323475953%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC
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%
7C&sdata=LzeyrIIrJDEasmZcC6WdtegokZy%2B%2BUEyotsu%2BloT%2BeE%3D&reser
v
ed=0> lunog.lu
<https://www/
.lunog.lu%2F&data=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7Ce4e8a43
3
2c5d49e6cde908dc5d215a63%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7
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