UAE (DIFC) and Qatar (QFC/Doha) deliver the cleanest mix of: - high rule-of-law & CPI, - broad visa waiver/e-visa schemes, - limited mandatory uptake of EU/OFAC sanctions, - clear legal forms for a member-funded, usage-based not-for-profit. Georgia is a low-cost fallback with excellent visa openness and explicit non-alignment on sanctions today-but governance scores are lower and EU harmonisation could narrow the gap. On Sat, 2025-05-31 at 14:34 +0000, Kaj Niemi wrote:
I've always fancied myself as an out of the box thinker.
I don't believe there would be a regime which would not have at least one other regime within the service region or not follow EU or US OFAC sanction lists. Feel free to map it out, however. Maybe I'm wrong.
The benefit of Netherlands is also that it is generally recognized to adhere strongly to the rule of law. Also, it's quite high up on the list of non-corrupt countries.
Kaj
Sent from my iPad
From: Denys Fedoryshchenko <nuclearcat@nuclearcat.com> Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2025 5:23 PM To: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: [members-discuss] Re: Reminder that Charging Scheme Task Force comments are open until the end of the month
Brilliant solution, Kaj! Let's add 'overthrow your government' to RIPE's membership requirements. Or - here's a radical idea - we could relocate RIPE NCC to a jurisdiction that doesn't force us to exclude members based on geopolitics. One option requires regime change; the other requires only that RIPE NCC act like the neutral technical body it claim to be.
On Sat, 2025-05-31 at 13:07 +0000, Kaj Niemi wrote:
Some of the points seem to solve themselves.
I mean Syria is getting off US and EU [1] sanctions lists and all it took was a regime change. Perhaps something the others on those lists should consider? just a thought.
:)
Kaj
Sent from my iPad
From: Denys Fedoryshchenko <nuclearcat@nuclearcat.com> Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2025 3:35 PM To: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: [members-discuss] Re: Reminder that Charging Scheme Task Force comments are open until the end of the month
Daniel,
The obstacles you list do more than complicate a tiered-fee discussion—they question the wisdom of keeping the RIPE NCC incorporated in the Netherlands at all:
Physical access – Visa barriers exclude members from GM participation.
Geopolitical neutrality – The host state has used armed force against several member economies.
Sanctions exposure – EU measures already restrict Russian, Iranian, Syrian and other members.
Tax rigidity – Dutch rules are cited as blocking a usage-based charging model adopted by every other RIR.
If the legal and fiscal climate in the Netherlands cannot accommodate a cost-causation fee structure, we should assess jurisdictions that can. Comparable non-profit registries in Germany (DENIC), France (AFNIC), the UK (Nominet) and Canada (CIRA) all combine member-governed models with per-resource charging—without losing tax-exempt status.
Maybe we should expect action: launch a formal study on relocating the RIPE NCC to a legally neutral venue that: - Allows tiered/usage-based fees under clear non-profit rules. - Offers visa-light access for all members. - Minimises sanctions entanglements. - Preserves the community’s oversight and surplus-reinvestment principles.
Continuing with a flat-fee model in a restrictive jurisdiction leaves a growing share of the membership disenfranchised and subsidising the heaviest resource users. Let us evaluate relocation now, before governance credibility erodes further.
P.S. All four operate under EU or OECD tax codes, none lose their non- profit status (or equivalent), and each successfully allocates cost in proportion to resource usage.
Nominet UK (Private company limited by guarantee—surpluses reinvested for public benefit (no shareholders, no dividends) £ 58.6 m (£41.1 m registry, £15.3 m cyber-security, £2.2 m investment income) Membership fee: £400 + VAT one-off joining £100 + VAT annual renewal (prorated £50 if joining after 1 Feb) Other fees: - Domain Availability Checker: £25 / yr - Searchable WHOIS: £400 / yr - Domain Lock: £90 per name / yr - Wholesale registry fee: £3.90 per .uk-year
CIRA (Canada) (Incorporated as a not-for-profit organisation under Canadian federal law. ) C$ 34.3 m total revenue (C$ 29.6 m domain-registry; C$ 4.7 m cyber- security & other) Membership fee: NONE Other fees: - Wholesale registry fee
DENIC eG (.de) (Private, not-for-profit co-operative (~300 member companies)) € 51.3 m total income; gross earnings € 15.9 m; annual surplus € 0.04 m Membership fee: €595 processing (DE) / €500 (non-DE) €1 000 admission (one-off) €1 500 capital share per unit (min 1, max 3). No published recurring dues; the share remains on the books while a member. Other fees: - Wholesale registry fee - Training, escrow, etc. charged separately.
AFNIC (.fr) (Non-profit association governed by French law. ) € 22.0 m turnover (of which € 20.45 m from .fr) Annual dues by college (calendar year): - Companies & Registrars: €190 - Individuals: €50 - Students: €20 Other fees: - Registrar accreditation: €500 / yr - Create / renew / transfer / restore: €4.56 per domain-year (2024 tariff).
On Sat, 2025-05-31 at 09:36 +0200, Daniel Suchy via members-discuss wrote:
I never said that the layered model would ruin RIPE. That's your personal lie.
If we want to compare with other RIRs, we should not cherry-pick just some aspects. In a similar comparison, we must also take into account the size of the budget and what the money is spent on and where. It's not just about implementing a layered model and problem is solved.
It is also true that each RIR lives in a slightly different legal environment. And among other things, the tax implications of the tiered model must also be well evaluated.
In our legal environment, tax authorities may assess the tiered model as a provision of a service. Besides, it was an argument at a time when the tiered model was abandoned in RIPE (which many have already forgotten).
The argument that they have it that way in the US or Africa probably won't hold up at all before the European (Dutch) tax office. Non- profit organizations usually have some tax breaks. But if the tax office determines that it is a regular service, the tax breaks will disappear.
And from my perspective, a better solution is for the money to stay in the community. Not in some government budget.
- Daniel
On 5/31/25 9:19 AM, Jean Salim wrote:
Please open an IPv6 transition thread and stop the disinformation in this thread. Speaking of which, as pointed out hundred of times, all other RIRs have successfully implemented tiered charging schemes, some of them with weighted voting power, others not. So stop misleading people by saying that tiered charging will ruin RIPE when it's been working fine at other RIRs.
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