I respect your position even if: 1. May be we can find some other less expensive and more modern method to identify subscribers that send a paper mail in 2018. 2. Our solution allow to manage different Digital Certificates created by Europen Authority and strangers too. 3. We are distributor of DocuSign but in this case I was not proposing to use docusign wich is a Electronical Signature and not Digital Signature. Roberto Minoletti FIRMAREMOTA Da: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Per conto di William Inviato: lunedì 25 giugno 2018 08.41 A: members-discuss@ripe.net Oggetto: Re: [members-discuss] Request to update the SSA - Article 2.2, acceptance of documents I am absolutely against NOT sending by postal mail to sign but FOR allowing to return by mail/digital. There are already LIRs with fake eg. Belize and African company documents, if we now send nothing to nowhere anymore this will just get worse. This address sent to is also the only legal trace RIPE has - paid anonymous, with fake data and no address needed this is heaven for cybercrime - i'd love it, preventing all this BS would make me so much more money. Also, RIPE is not just EU - a digital signature is not worth shit in like Iran. DocuSign and similar are NOT accepted services in such countries, thus the signature is plainly invalid. -- William Weber On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 13:21, Elvis Daniel Velea <elvis@v4escrow.net <mailto:elvis@v4escrow.net> > wrote: Erik, you have my support for the request below. @all - sorry for the top post /elvis On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 01:37 Erik Bais <ebais@a2b-internet.com <mailto:ebais@a2b-internet.com> > wrote: Dear members, I like to open a discussion to have the SSA updated into this century .. to allow for acceptance of the documents to be send in via the RIPE NCC Portal ( with SSO ) or send in by email after being signed, or the RIPE NCC to use a method of digital signature like the usage of DocuSign, Echosign or something similar. The acceptance of a digital signature has been allowed by EU law since December 1999, ( EU Directive 99/93/EG - http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:31999L0093 ) and implemented in Dutch law since 2003 (http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0015046/2003-05-21 ) We are currently in 2018 and the SSA still refers to a device that most of our children never heard of or have seen ..... named a fax machine… <snip> https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-673 Article 2 – General 2.1 The RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement shall come into effect by means of an offer and an acceptance. 2.2 To enter into the RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement, the following documents have to be sent to the RIPE NCC by post or fax: * One copy of the RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement containing the handwritten signature of an authorised representative of the Member * A recent extract from the Commercial Trade Register or equivalent document proving the registration of the Member with the national authorities. Upon receipt of these documents by the RIPE NCC, the RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement is considered to be concluded. The RIPE NCC shall not commence the provision of the RIPE NCC services until these documents have been received. Conclusion of the RIPE NCC Standard Service Agreement establishes a RIPE NCC membership. </snip> While most of the fax implementations these days, including the one at the RIPE NCC office, is a device that stores an image copy of a document on a server. Not many companies have a paper print fax anymore these days.. That document from those fax or multi-copier devices can then be printed by the local printer or stored digitally in a database attached to a LIR application as an attachment. Similar as if someone would scan the signed SSA and email the document .. However the current wording in the SSA doesn’t allow for that type of scenario .. and it should be updated to a more neutral wording to allow a better usage of technology. If we can sign for a mortgage application in The Netherlands using a digital signature, why can’t we apply for a new LIR with a digital signature. This will also allow for a much smoother new members to complete their application .. Using digital signatures will reduce the fees to DHL, speed up the complete on-boarding process and reduce the handling fees at the RIPE office. <sarcasm> For those that like to keep doing things, like we always did .. The city of Amsterdam is also in the process to dis-allow the usage of horse and carriage in the city. So if someone would like to take a ride by horse carriage to the postal office and use their fax machine there .. that is something that you cannot do for a long time anymore as well … https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/na-bierfiets-is-het-ook-einde-verhaal-v... </sarcasm> And for countries that don’t allow the usage of digital signatures or members that don’t want to use the new digital signature system, there is always the option to request the paper SSA to be send via DHL and have it signed and returned. Similar as we are currently also allowing those options for invoices … Kind regards, Erik Bais _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/elvis%40v4escrow.net -- Elvis Daniel Velea V4Escrow LLC Chief Executive Officer E-mail: elvis@v4escrow.net <mailto:elvis@v4escrow.net> Mobile: +1 (702) 970 0921 Excuse the briefness of this mail, it was sent from a mobile device.