Hi everyone, (everything below is my personal view, not necessarily my companies - an extra large LIR:s - view..) Oh it has started again, moneytalks... Here is my personal view on what may be the case. A couple of small LIR:s would rather not pay at all for ip:s since they are starting companies, and have not too much money yet. (imho They forget it is not only IP:s they are paying for) Most large and extra large LIR:s have also large company customers, and sometimes even millions of private customers so they have much more ip:s gathered in say 15 - 20 years time, based on real needs, verified by the communities rules (RIPE). We all knew IPv4 would become scarse, but nobody did anything about it, except for maybe a few of us. And since the resource is running out (realy old news), new LIRs, and small lirs want to pay less so that the big LIRS could and should pay more, since the small ones can no longer benefit from IPv4 on a large scale. The fee is basically meant for the excellent service the RIPE NCC has given to its members, not only "ip handouts", also tools, meetings, coordination, and making it possible for the community to get involved. I think that a large LIR does not take that much more time of the RIPE NCC, compared to most small LIR:s who need - in the beginning- help and backup in most cases, just like we did in the beginning. All the other services of the RIPE NCC are the same for everyone, availlable to everyone. Now alloversudden, when it becomes clear (again realy old news) that v4 runs out some day, there is anger, jealousy, and bitterness, maybe even fear, since "the big old guys have many ip:s, lets make them pay for it, or they should return them..." After re-reading this myself i know the above sounds like we are not willing to pay ourselves, or are jealous ourselves if someone gets it cheaper, but no, not realy. IF large LIR:s should pay more for their ip:s, and little ones less, it should not be a dramatic change at once, neither should new lirs get it as a bargain, since they are the ones that need resources from the RIPE NCC, this is the actual cost (salary, offices, equipment) I would suggest a moderate change, little by little, over the years, not based on a per IP base. Rgds, Raymond -- ************************************************************ Raymond Jetten Phone: +358 3 41024 139 Senior System Specialist Fax: +358 3 41024 199 Elisa Oyj / Network Management Mobile: +358 45 6700 139 Hermiankatu 3A raymond.jetten@elisa.fi FIN-33720, TAMPERE http://www.elisa.fi ************************************************************