Конфіденційно/Confidential
Hi Murat,
You can ask our sales department for information on prices and the services we provide. If you're interested, I can give you their contact details.
From: Murat Terzioglu | PREBITS <m.terzioglu@prebits.de>
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2025 9:37 AM
To: Evgeniy Brodskiy <Evgeniy.Brodskiy@kyivstar.net>
Cc: Jean Salim <jean@bsmart-isp.net>; members-discuss@ripe.net
Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Re: Reminder that Charging Scheme Task Force comments are open until the end of the month
What do you charge your customer for 1x fix IPV4 address?
--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards
Murat TERZIOGLU
PREBITS - Premium Business IT Solutions
Telefon: 0234/58825994
Telefax: 0234/58825995
USt-ID: DE315418902
Am 31.05.2025 um 03:13 schrieb Evgeniy Brodskiy via members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net>:
Hi,
Now all LIRs are paying the same and still large LIR are controlling RIPE and making everybody pay for their resources
I think it is not accurate at 100%. Somone creates this slogan for unknown reason. Currently nobody pays (at least to RIPE) for resources belonging/allocated to someone else, everybody pays to fill the RIPE budget, which makes RIPE's existence and work possible. And while RIPE nonprofit organization all payments will be limited in total by budget.
Also, I can agree that different LIRs consume different amounts of RIPE services. But consuming RIPE services is not equal to the number of /24s used by LIRs.
Also, right now, a very small percentage of votes can be counted as votes of “big” LIRs, so how can you say that “large LIRs are controlling RIPE”? But of course, if we move to an unequal membership fee, you can be 100% sure that the equality of voting weight will change.
why large LIRs with hundreds of /24 are scared of paying more than 1850 eur
But why, in a community of members with equal voting weight, should someone pay more or less? If we have just one membership fee, it must be proportional to voting weight.
If your proposal is to split the fee into a pure members part (fee per vote) and a service part (proportional to consumed services, not x/24th), I can understand this in the context of a budget discussion. But in this case, a price list and service catalog must be created so that each member can decide which services are affordable to him. I think it is no secret that some groups of LIRs only need the registry. Also, it can give a clear picture of which services are really valuable from the community's point of view.
From: Jean Salim <jean@bsmart-isp.net>
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2025 11:32 PM
To: Daniel Pearson <daniel@privatesystems.net>
Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net
Subject: [members-discuss] Re: Reminder that Charging Scheme Task Force comments are open until the end of the month
Деякі одержувачі цього повідомлення нечасто отримують електронні листи з адреси jean@bsmart-isp.net. Дізнайтеся, чому це важливо
All other RIR have tiered charging and the sky didn't fall.
Nobody's saying charge per /24 proportionally, it should be tiered and logarithmic like everyone else.
I don't know why large LIRs with hundreds of /24 are scared of paying more than 1850 eur which is what they rent out one /24 for.
What you're saying is very wrong.
Now all LIRs are paying the same and still large LIR are controlling RIPE and making everybody pay for their resources while they only pay 1850 eur per year for all the resources they're controlling and making money out of.
On Fri, 30 May 2025, 23:13 Daniel Pearson, <daniel@privatesystems.net> wrote:
I'll state what no one else has in very simple terms.
The moment your single /24 LIR pays 100 EUR /year because it's small and the LIR with a /8 pays 100,000 EUR /year is the moment your voice will get taken away.
The best way to motivate corporations of that size to get interested is to charge them ridiculous amounts of money. Mark my words, RIPE would be easily taken over and controlled by the top 10-20 resource holders if you ever tried to charge per /24 , and they'd make sure your voice is never heard again.
It's simple really, if you want an equal voice in the direction of RIPE, then everyone needs to pay the same amount. If you want to watch your privileges get stripped away, try and change that to where you charge by the /24.
Daniel~
On 5/30/25 1:48 PM, Jean Salim wrote:
Just to clarify so there's no misinformation. This thread's not about taking anybody's IPv4 allocations and redistributing it. It's about large resource holders paying their fair annual maintenance share.
One of the LIRs I represent has only ONE /24 or 256 IPs that they purchased, they pay 1850 EUR a year to ripe which is a substantial amount in a country like Lebanon.
While LIRs that have hundrends or even thousands of /24s pay the same 1850 EUR amount while if they closed their businesses and rent their IPS out, they would make hundreds of thousands of Euros anually.
On Fri, 30 May 2025, 20:11 Jean Salim, <jean@bsmart-isp.net> wrote:
You are intentionally misleading this discussion, please open a new thread about IPv6 transition and discuss this subject with whom you want to.
This thread's title is clearly about the charging scheme, not about IPv4 distribution nor about IPv6 transition.
On Fri, May 30, 2025 at 8:07 PM Gert Doering <gert@space.net> wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, May 30, 2025 at 07:58:00PM +0300, Jean Salim wrote:
> Each time there's a discussion about resource holders paying their fair
> share according to their resource holdings at RIPE, like other RIR, you
> take the discussion towards an unrelated subject that is IPv6 transition.
This is the only relevant discussion. There is not enough IPv4 available
to fulfill all the demands people have - very simple math.
So whatever we do will just result in more squabbling and complaints from
other people that "THIS IS ALL SO UNFAIR" - yes, this is why we made IPv6
policies where every but the most large LIRs can have more address space
than they will ever need, by asking politely.
Guess what, we knew 15+ years ago that IPv4 would not last, and made
policies where networks voluntarily(!) restricted themselves(!) so late
comers could still have some space, to help with the transition. That
space is now gone, transition has not been done, and - surprise - we see
complaints that IPv4 is not distributed fairly.
Gert Doering
-- NetMaster
--
have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard,
Karin Schuler, Sebastian Cler
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann
D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
-----To unsubscribe from this mailing list or change your subscription options, please visit: https://mailman.ripe.net/mailman3/lists/members-discuss.ripe.net/As we have migrated to Mailman 3, you will need to create an account with the email matching your subscription before you can change your settings.More details at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/mail/mailman-3-migration/
-----
To unsubscribe from this mailing list or change your subscription options, please visit: https://mailman.ripe.net/mailman3/lists/members-discuss.ripe.net/
As we have migrated to Mailman 3, you will need to create an account with the email matching your subscription before you can change your settings.
More details at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/mail/mailman-3-migration/-----
To unsubscribe from this mailing list or change your subscription options, please visit: https://mailman.ripe.net/mailman3/lists/members-discuss.ripe.net/
As we have migrated to Mailman 3, you will need to create an account with the email matching your subscription before you can change your settings.
More details at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/mail/mailman-3-migration/