On 09/16/2016 07:26 AM, Prager-IT e.U. wrote:
On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Daniel Pearson <daniel@privatesystems.net> wrote:
Sorry to say but I really don't think you are seeing the picture.

I fail to see how dropping yearly fee's, increasing 'setup' fee's will accomplish anything. Perhaps spend some time and do the math out and put an actual outline with some numbers behind it and then match that upto the required budget to operate RIPE.

Charging every member for the amount of resources they are using will bring back some fairness in an inherently unfair system.

Business is not fair, it is a competitive market place. Hell, life isn't fair. Are you going to cry foul if you sell chicken and someone opens a chicken shop next door. Is it fair if either one of you gets more customers than the other or do you make the police count how many customers go into each shop and divide them up?

 

You specifically say this:

"After the membership has approved the new plan via a majority vote there will be an excess in money available due to the higher setup fee. The price will be determined by availability."

RIPE having an 'excess' of money, will simply mean that money is returned to its members. The price is not determined by availability of resources, it is determined primarily by the operating costs of RIPE its self. 

Under my plan the RIPE NCC will use that excess money to buy back resources from RIPE NCC members who are willing to give back some of their resources.

The amount of resources members are willing to give back will influence the price the RIPE NCC would be willing to pay from the excess funds.

RIPE cannot and will not do this, let me explain why. According to RIPE, and most RIR's, their stance is that you do not "own" the IP addresses that are given to you, and that they can technically take them back at any time. So now, you are wanting to pay people to get these addresses back. This will contradict every agreement & contract with every LIR out there in RIPE and effectively make the statement that you do not own the IP addresses null and void. So congratulations, you just turned everyone's IP space into Legacy owned IP space and that's what I'd argue in court and probably win.



 

Specifically lets look at the Articles of Association that govern RIPE.

Article 3 – The Association: Objective

The objective of the Association is to perform activities for the benefit of the Members, primarily activities that the Members need to organize as a group. This object can be sub-divided into the following activities:

  • Registration Activities related to the role of the Association as Regional Internet Registry;
  • Co-ordination Activities, including the support of the stable operation of the Internet;
  • Administration Activities, including all regular reports and administrative support as well as all other general administrative tasks which cannot be attributed to a specific activity;
  • New Activities, including all activities which are necessary to react to the rapidly changing world of the Internet; and to do all that is connected therewith or may be conducive thereto, all this in the widest sense of the word. Making profit is not an object of the Association.

So if RIPE cannot make a profit, then it is impossible for it to set fee's so high that would make any impact and thus limits the whole game to a 21,000,000 million EUR bubble, which is TINY compared to some of the power house IT companies budgets. 

If the RIPE NCC wants to protect the remaining resources the setup fee needs to be increased either way, it is as simple as that. As I already said the excess amount will be used to buy back resources from members that are willing to give them back. Buying back resources instead of dispersing excess money will benefit future LIRs as they may still be able to get a small amount of IPv4 resources and make the entire system more efficient if you provide LIRs with unused resources an easy way to give back some resources and provide them with a reimbursement.

I'm sorry but this is a pipe dream. Open market IPv4 addresses are already reaching quite high costs, nearing 10-12 EUR per IP. So, lets say RIPE gets a deal and buys back IP space at 10 EUR an IP.  With their excess budget that was refunded, they could have bought back, what, a /13 if they are lucky. Of course now that RIPE is buying addresses back, the price will likely go up even more, as will fee's from RIPE.

You basically created an endless market loop that will eat its self into destruction.

RIPE should not and cannot buy IP space, I guarantee something like this will end very badly for RIPE, likely violates god knows how many different charters and agreements between governments, RIR's IANA etc.





Kind Regards,
Stefan Prager
--
Prager-IT e.U.
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