[members-discuss] Re: Reminder that Charging Scheme Task Force comments are open until the end of the month

31 May 2025

      I fully agree with the point raised here. While the voting issue might seem more appropriate under the “Analysis on Participation in May 2025 GM” thread, it is clearly relevant to this discussion as well—because the Charging Scheme is ultimately decided not by our mailing list debates, but by GM votes.

The incredibly low voter turnout in RIPE NCC GMs is indeed concerning. I genuinely wonder how it is acceptable for any proposal, especially those as critical as the Charging Scheme, to be adopted with less than 10% participation. This is not even touching on the lack of tiered models or “rejection” options in the proposals themselves.

RIPE NCC is quick to take action when a member fails to pay fees or violates registry policy (e.g. missing or non-functional abuse-mailbox, vague org addresses, etc.). So why is it acceptable for over 90% of members to skip voting, yet have decisions go through regardless?

If RIPE is truly a community-driven, non-profit coordination body—not a commercial service provider—shouldn’t we ensure that at least one-third of members participate before any community-wide decision is accepted? Otherwise, with most members just paying fees and using the LIR Portal to manage resources without engaging in the community, RIPE increasingly looks like a commercial entity selling services.

In that case, maybe it’s time to drop the illusion of community governance. Let RIPE become something more like OpenAI—a nonprofit run by a board, funded by large stakeholders, providing services directly to users rather than members. At least then we wouldn’t have these endless debates. I’ve never seen OpenAI users arguing with its board over pricing via public mailing lists. They either pay up, or stop using the service. And frankly, that model is easier for people to accept—users complain about being broke, not about being treated unfairly.

So instead of clinging to a broken membership-based decision system, perhaps we should be discussing a transformation of RIPE into a modern nonprofit service organization—transparent, efficient, and free from the governance theatre that clearly no longer functions.

Chenyang
Sent from my iPhone

On May 31, 2025, at 21:17, sdy@a-n-t.ru wrote:

Yes, but it has root!

It is the passivity of 90% of NCC members. In fact, the issues are decided
on GM by the votes of 600-700 members out of 22000.

Most of the LIRs not to be subscribers on [members-discuss], do not
participate in GM, and do not even understand their role and rights in the
community.

I would like the management of the NCC to take a closer look at this problem.

<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
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class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
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class="s1">You claim that the voices of small members will be weakened.
But what you don’t realize is this: our voices were never strong to begin
with.</span></p><p class="p2" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
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22px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
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class="s1">1.5 years ago, votes were collected against the new charging
scheme. However, the GM went ahead with their own decision anyway. And
what was the argument? A “stable future”…</span></p><p class="p2"
style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
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-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
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font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">You still don’t understand, and you keep distorting the
direction of the issue.</span></p><p class="p2" style="margin: 0px;
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-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
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class="s1">There is a fact here:</span></p><p class="p1" style="margin:
0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none;
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font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">IPv4 has monetary value on the market.</span></p><p class="p1"
style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
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normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
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class="s1">The big players are turning this into profit,</span></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
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normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
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class="s1">but it’s the small players who are paying the
price.</span></p><p class="p2" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
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22px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
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font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">As a small player, I pay €1850 for a single /24 subnet — which
is all I need.</span></p><p class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
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-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1">What benefit does RIPE
provide me in return?</span></p><p class="p2" style="margin: 0px;
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font-variation-settings: normal; min-height: 22px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
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font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">I can already hear some saying: ‘Then go to another
RIR…’ </span></p><p class="p2" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
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22px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
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font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">RIPE NCC is managing its resources unfairly. That’s a
fact.</span></p><p class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
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-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"><br></span></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
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font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">Can someone compare IPv4 or IPv4 resources to something from
everyday life?</span></p><p class="p2" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
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font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal;
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22px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
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font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">We say: these resources are not ours, they are public
resources! Yet, despite this, we can still turn them into profit — paying
the same amount as someone who “owns” only a /24, while someone else a /16
or bigger.</span></p><p class="p2" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
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font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal;
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22px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">They’re not ours, yet these resources are being sold on the
market. They can be leased. And we can see the amounts being
charged.</span></p><p class="p2" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal;
font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal; min-height:
22px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">I compare these resources to land or property. If anyone has a
better analogy, please share it.</span></p><p class="p2" style="margin:
0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none;
font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal;
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font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; min-height: 22px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1"></span></p><p class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal;
font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1">I have just 450 square
meters of land — enough for a single-family house. Imagine someone else
has 1,000,000 square meters — they own land the size of an entire city.
And we both pay the same tax. How is that fair? What benefit do I get out
of it? Or let me ask — what’s the point of our voices being equal in
volume?</span></p><p class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
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font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal;
font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"><br></span></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">Throughout history, such injustices have led to the downfall of
nations.</span></p><p class="p2" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
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font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal;
font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal; min-height:
22px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">RIPE NCC is a non-profit organization. People come to it to use
the public resources it manages. And we know that the vast majority of
members don’t have more than 5x /24 subnets. Honestly, most of them have
no other expectations from RIPE NCC beyond access to these resources. They
don’t use any of its other services.</span></p><p class="p2"
style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; min-height: 22px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">Yet, we distribute €40 million in annual expenses equally among
all of them.</span></p><p class="p2" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal;
font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal; min-height:
22px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">On the other hand, many of the members using these resources —
especially the larger ones — are commercial entities. And they generate
significant profits from these resources. Why? Just because they became
members 20 years ago.</span></p><p class="p2" style="margin: 0px;
font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none;
font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; min-height: 22px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">They’re using public resources for commercial gain, and under
the mask of a non-profit model, we’re making small members pay for it —
spreading the cost over everyone..</span></p><p class="p1" style="margin:
0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none;
font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1"><br></span></p><p class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal;
font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1">If members are able to
generate enorm big commercial profits from these resources, then they
should pay their share accordingly.</span></p><p class="p2" style="margin:
0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none;
font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; min-height: 22px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
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font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">There’s no point in holding back just because Dutch law might
consider this ‘commercial income’. The Netherlands is a strong country —
one that knows and enforces commercial law very well.</span></p><p
class="p2" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; min-height: 22px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
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font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><o:p
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"></o:p></p><p class="p1"
style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">And if the law does see it that way, then maybe that
is</span><span class="s1"> the right and fair approach.</span></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1"><br></span></p><p class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal;
font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1">However, I truly believe
these resources are public resources. Because without them, the internet
simply doesn’t function. It doesn’t work.</span></p><p class="p2"
style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; min-height: 22px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">If these resources are essential, then they should not be
treated as commercial assets. But if members are making such significant
profits from them, then a fair compensation model must be
created.</span></p><p class="p2" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal;
font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal; min-height:
22px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1"><b>And I openly criticize RIPE NCC for failing to create such a
model.</b></span><span style="font-family:
UICTFontTextStyleEmphasizedBody; font-weight: bold;"> To be honest, I
don’t even think RIPE NCC truly cares about this.</span></p><p class="p2"
style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; min-height: 22px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></p><p class="p1" style="margin: 0px;
font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none;
font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">Sometimes, not even 10% of members participate in the
elections. You keep researching the reasons… but for 20 years, you haven’t
managed to succeed.</span></p><p class="p2" style="margin: 0px;
font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none;
font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; min-height: 22px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1"></span><br></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">Let me share my personal opinion:</span></p><p class="p1"
style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span
class="s1">Some members simply don’t care anymore because of the
injustice.</span></p><p class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto;
font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal;
font-variant-position: normal; font-feature-settings: normal;
font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><span class="s1">And others — well,
they’re perfectly happy. They’re comfortably using the resources, so they
see no reason to bother with any of this</span></p><p class="p1"
style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><o:p
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></o:p></p><p
class="p1" style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;
font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal;
font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto;
font-variation-settings: normal; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><o:p
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> </o:p><span
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">--</span></p><p
class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><span lang="TR">Mit
freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards<br><br></span><b><span lang="TR">Murat
TERZIOGLU</span></b><span lang="TR"><br></span><b>PREBITS - Premium
Business IT Solutions</b></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
0);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
0);">Bochumer Str. 20</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm
0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
0);">D-44866 Bochum</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
0);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
0);">Telefon: <span
dir="ltr">0234/58825994</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255,
255, 255, 0);">Telefax: <span
dir="ltr">0234/58825995</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255,
255, 255, 0);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm
0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
0);">www.prebits.de<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255,
255, 255, 0);">m.terzioglu@prebits.de</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255,
255, 255, 0);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm
0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
0);">USt-ID: DE315418902</span></p></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote
type="cite">Am 30.05.2025 um 22:12 schrieb Daniel Pearson
<daniel@privatesystems.net>:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote
type="cite"><div dir="ltr">

   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">

   <div class="moz-cite-prefix">I'll state what no one else has in very
     simple terms. <br>
   </div>
   <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
   </div>
   <div class="moz-cite-prefix">The moment your single /24 LIR pays 100
     EUR /year because it's small and the LIR with a /8 pays 100,000
     EUR /year is the moment your voice will get taken away.</div>
   <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
   </div>
   <div class="moz-cite-prefix">The best way to motivate corporations
     of that size to get interested is to charge them ridiculous
     amounts of money. Mark my words, RIPE would be easily taken over
     and controlled by the top 10-20 resource holders if you ever tried
     to charge per /24 , and they'd make sure your voice is never heard
     again.</div>
   <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
   </div>
   <div class="moz-cite-prefix">It's simple really, if you want an
     equal voice in the direction of RIPE, then everyone needs to pay
     the same amount. If you want to watch your privileges get stripped
     away, try and change that to where you charge by the /24.</div>
   <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
   </div>
   <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Daniel~<br>
   </div>
   <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
   </div>
   <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/30/25 1:48 PM, Jean Salim wrote:<br>
   </div>
   <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAEXzSXF1dsCFJ1v++uyyCxVoNWxGzDA8b-dhoOY45Xe8OpPb-g@mail.gmail.com">
     <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
     <div dir="auto">Just to clarify so there's no misinformation. This
       thread's not about taking anybody's IPv4 allocations and
       redistributing it. It's about large resource holders paying
       their fair annual maintenance share.
       <div dir="auto">One of the LIRs I represent has only ONE /24 or
         256 IPs that they purchased, they pay 1850 EUR a year to ripe
         which is a substantial amount in a country like Lebanon.</div>
       <div dir="auto">While LIRs that have hundrends or even thousands
         of /24s pay the same 1850 EUR amount while if they closed
         their businesses and rent their IPS out, they would make
         hundreds of thousands of Euros anually.</div>
     </div>
     <br>
     <div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
       <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 30 May 2025, 20:11
         Jean Salim, <<a href="mailto:jean@bsmart-isp.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jean@bsmart-isp.net</a>>
         wrote:<br>
       </div>
       <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
         <div dir="ltr">You are intentionally misleading this
           discussion, please open a new thread about IPv6 transition
           and discuss this subject with whom you want to.
           <div>This thread's title is clearly about the charging
             scheme, not about IPv4 distribution nor about IPv6
             transition.</div>
         </div>
         <br>
         <div class="gmail_quote">
           <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, May 30, 2025 at
             8:07 PM Gert Doering <<a href="mailto:gert@space.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gert@space.net</a>>
             wrote:<br>
           </div>
           <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
             <br>
             On Fri, May 30, 2025 at 07:58:00PM +0300, Jean Salim
             wrote:<br>
             > Each time there's a discussion about resource holders
             paying their fair<br>
             > share according to their resource holdings at RIPE,
             like other RIR, you<br>
             > take the discussion towards an unrelated subject that
             is IPv6 transition.<br>
             <br>
             This is the only relevant discussion.  There is not
enough
             IPv4 available<br>
             to fulfill all the demands people have - very simple
math.<br>
             <br>
             So whatever we do will just result in more squabbling and
             complaints from<br>
             other people that "THIS IS ALL SO UNFAIR" - yes, this is
             why we made IPv6<br>
             policies where every but the most large LIRs can have more
             address space<br>
             than they will ever need, by asking politely.<br>
             <br>
             Guess what, we knew 15+ years ago that IPv4 would not
             last, and made<br>
             policies where networks voluntarily(!) restricted
             themselves(!) so late<br>
             comers could still have some space, to help with the
             transition.  That<br>
             space is now gone, transition has not been done, and -
             surprise - we see<br>
             complaints that IPv4 is not distributed fairly.<br>
             <br>
             Gert Doering<br>
                     -- NetMaster<br>
             -- <br>
             have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?<br>
             <br>
             SpaceNet AG             
        Vorstand: Sebastian v.
             Bomhard,<br>

           Karin Schuler,
             Sebastian Cler<br>
             Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14       
Aufsichtsratsvors.: A.
             Grundner-Culemann<br>
             D-80807 Muenchen           
     HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)<br>
             Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444       
 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279<br>
           </blockquote>
         </div>
       </blockquote>
     </div>
     <br>
     <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
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[members-discuss] Re: Reminder that Charging Scheme Task Force comments are open until the end of the month

Gao Chenyang