Hello, Azer There is no sales, most likely it is rent. The non profit can be resolved very easy: If for previous year the RIPE NCC budget is positive, what is over income will be spread between LIRs as discount for the next year. If the collected funds from members is cant cover the expenses, the fees per net will be lifted for next year with the amount of negative balance. For example: Lets say In 2019 the total expenses are 30 000 000 euro , and from membership fees was collected 60 000 000 60m - 30m = +30m euro overcome (10 EURO) - (30m euro) / (sum /24 nets for RIPE region) = (fee for one extra /24 net for 2020) The oposite scenario can be calculate with the same formula. For those LIRs who have only one /24 and pay minimal fee of 350 EURO no discount for next year. There must be guarantee minimum budget for normal RIPE NCC work. Even I personaly would like RIPE NCC to have bigger budget, to hire more staff, and they to care resources that will be returned to be cleared from blacklists, bans, wrong annonsing and e.t.c. before they to be redelegated to other LIRs. Ivaylo Josifov Varteh LTD Varna Bulgaria On Fri, 18 Jan 2019, Azer Karyagdy wrote:
Hello Ivaylo,
You miss important point from RIPE. RIPE do not sell anything. RIPE is non profit organisation based on membership. Each member charged only for membership and nothing more. Therefore membership fee have not any relation with number of resources hold by each member. Therefore, before talking about charge schemes we need change this base terms. I am agreed (as i believe and many other LIR's) that current situation seems to be unfair and it is not stimulate big actor to free up unused ipv4 ip's. It is usual practice in the world that who taken more resources pay for more. IPV4 is resources and they has own cost on free market. We cannot ignore this. Perhaps we need some explanation from RIPE to get more details why RIPE cannot use this way? May be some legal issue existing?
Best Regards Azer
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Hello, Gert
Yes, you are right the maths do not allow. In future it is sure we will have to migrate to IPV6 because IPV4 cant cover the needs.
BUT....
To can migration happen we all (LIRs) must be pushed in almost same time. This will not happen if one LIR strugling with resources need, and other have bunch of unused such. Even the fee per year for single IPV4 to become 1000 EURO it will put presure on some LIRs and not to all. We are going on that way now. And it only opens the door for some people to make easy money from us fast.
Also the charging scheme must be FAIR for all members. I cant see other way than to be calculate on consumed resources.
Such charging scheme that we are talking about was never been in the past. Before 2014, I think, The charging scheme was based on categories with complicated calculation of assignments from previous and current year and something like this.
Now I am talking about such scheme:
LIR-1 have 1 x /24 annual membership fee: 350 EURO
LIR-2 have 4 x /24 annual membership fee: 350 EURO + (4-1) * 10 EURO = 380 EURO
LIR-3 have 64 x /24 annual membership fee: 350 EURO + (64-1) * 10 EURO = 990 EURO
LIR-4 have 1024 x /24 annual membership fee: 350 EURO + (1024-1) * 10 EURO = 10580 EURO
Also changing in rules: LIR cant sell give on lease or transfer to other LIR resources. If you need resources ask RIPE NCC, to lower your fee and have unused resources return to RIPE NCC.
Ivaylo Josifov Varteh LTD Varna Bulgaria
On Fri, 18 Jan 2019, Gert Doering wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 08:33:34PM +0100, Thomas Gallo - Nice Blue srl wrote:
this sound a very nice approach that could clearly put all on the same plane: you can spend as you need ipv4 or you can return them if you don't use it...
The maths do not permit "spend as you need IPv4". The big telcos with tens of millions of users and the cloud providers provably *need* all IPv4 there is. We've been at this point before, like, 15 years ago...
Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
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