Hi Tim, I agree, although the answer to that question from purveyors of mailing lists might not be accurate. The broker bears responsibility and there should be some action. Regards, Mike From: Tim Armstrong [mailto:t.armstrong@nerdalize.com] Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2017 10:17 AM To: Mike Burns <mike@iptrading.com> Cc: Alex Lobachov <alxl@telenet.lv>; members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Database Abuse Hi Mike, I think asking if such a list comes from scraping the DB should be part of a brokers due diligence, should it not? If for nothing else than as a matter of civility towards those you are contacting. Regards, Tim. On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Mike Burns <mike@iptrading.com <mailto:mike@iptrading.com> > wrote: Hello Alex, As a broker, LIR, and contact for some address blocks in RIPE and ARIN, I receive these solicitations as well, and it is particularly bothersome getting solicited from other brokers who should know better. I would support administrative action against LIRs or registered brokers at RIPE who abuse the DB, but what if these people are buying a list of email addresses which they are not aware was scraped from the DB? Would that offer some defense? Regards, Mike Burns From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> ] On Behalf Of Alex Lobachov Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2017 5:24 AM To: members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Database Abuse Good day, I’m all for administrative actions to LIR members (usually guys who are involved in ipv4 transfers) who are found guilty of using the DB with commercial goals. Closing the LIR might be the appropriate (yet quite aggressive one) action for them. Comments? -- Alex Lobachov Telenet, sia Network Systems Engineer LinkedIn: https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll E-mail: alxl@telenet.lv <mailto:alxl@telenet.lv> Skype: alxl__ Direct office: +371 67886224 <tel:+371%2067%20886%20224> Office: +371 67711111 <tel:+371%2067%20711%20111> From: Tim Armstrong <mailto:t.armstrong@nerdalize.com> Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2017 11:17 AM To: Vegard Svanberg <mailto:vegard@monsternett.no> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Database Abuse Or if your details are in the list and / or you are a technical contact attached to an LIR then you can see everything. Only non-technical / non-LIR people can't access it. Perhaps use passing the RIPE DB Training course as a requirement for access. On 7 Sep 2017 10:06 am, "Vegard Svanberg" <vegard@monsternett.no <mailto:vegard@monsternett.no> > wrote: * Tim Armstrong <t.armstrong@nerdalize.com <mailto:t.armstrong@nerdalize.com> > [2017-09-05 10:36]:
I hate to bring this subject up again, but is there really nothing structural we can do about this? At a minimum we could occlude e-mail addresses from the public DB, instead having public complaint submitted via a webform on the NCC website, requiring the uninitiated to realise this is an abuse / complaint contact, not a sales opportunity.
I understand the problem (and get those pitches myself nearly daily). I have no alternative, simple solutions. I also haven't thought this through in detail. :-) However, and despite all that: I'd oppose the idea of hiding/obfuscating emails and centralising/limiting feedback loops to the NCC website. I'm concerned about the operational consequences of limiting the opportunity to collect emails and build and maintain lists of contact points (potentially) important for operations. And if we remove just emails, we'd probably have to do the same with phone numbers. They're calling from time to time as well. Again, I haven't thought this through, but it's the knee-jerk response anyway. Perhaps naming, shaming and blacklisting the offenders might be a better way to go. Perhaps verified members could get regular database dumps (including contact info) from other sources, or authenticate against the db to get the whole lot. I don't know. I'm not sure the problem is big enough to warrant any major changes. -- -o) Vegard Svanberg, MD - Monsternett (www.monsternett.no <http://www.monsternett.no> ) /\\ Violgata 3A, N-1776 HALDEN, NORWAY _\_v Phone: (+47) 69701802 <tel:%28%2B47%29%2069701802> | Fax: (+47) 69701801 <tel:%28%2B47%29%2069701801> ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. _____ ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- <https://drive.google.com/a/nerdalize.com/uc?id=0B0EM3I3SZxdsdnBncG41WkNSeWp2V3I5Q0NubGVOaUxFNWx3&export=download> Tim Armstrong Dark Lord of Network Operations +31 6 175 444 72 <tel:+31617544472>