March 2024 - members-discuss - mailman.ripe.net

RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available
by Fergal Cunningham 12 Apr '24

12 Apr '24

Dear all, This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer. There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April. The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-schem… At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A. We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list. Kind regards, Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC Open House Timestamps 01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ondřej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members

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Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available
by ivaylo 02 Apr '24

02 Apr '24

1 LIR = 1 Vote If you want 2 Votes, always can register other company as LIR. And you again will pay 1500 euro and have same resource limits (before next step up = +1500): 1 x /20 IPV4 block 1 x /29 IPV6 block 8 ASNs If we have more than 1 Vote for a LIR, based on the fee (fee: 4500, have 3 Votes), that will lead to monopol, mastodont companies will do what they want will vote and accept decisions only for their interests. And I can not call it democracy nor fair for all. Ivaylo Josifov VarnaIX / Varteh LTD +359 52 969393 Varna, Bulgaria On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, Evgeniy Brodskiy wrote: > Confidential/????????????? > > Hi Ivaylo, just to clarify, if some LIR pay for 2 chank of resource does it mean it has 2 votes ?? > If contribution is not equal why votes should be equal ?? > > ----------------- > Best regards, > > Evgeniy Brodskiy > Kyivstar | Network engineer > Kyiv, Ukraine > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net> On Behalf Of ivaylo > Sent: Friday, March 29, 2024 4:54 PM > To: members-discuss(a)ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available > > [????? ?????????? ????? ???????????? ??????? ????????? ?????????? ????? ??? ivaylo(a)bglans.net. ??????????, ???? ?? ???????: https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ] > > Every Year we talking same things and every year the result is zero... > > Clearly it is not fair company which holds /22 IPV4 /32 IPV6 and few ASN to pay same amount as a company with /8 IPV4 /20 IPV6 and tens (if not > hundreds) ASNs. > > Clearly charging scheme based on the holded resource not accepting. Well then why not we think about hard coded resource limits for each member: > > Annual fee of 1500 Euro per LIR gives : > 1 x /20 Block of IPV4 (sum can be 16 x /24 or 4 x /22) > 1 x /29 Block of IPV6 (sum can be 8 x /32...) > 8 x ASNs > > If a LIR pass one or more of the above parameters the applied Annual fee > +1500 Euro, so such LIR can hold and manage: > > 2 x /20 Block of IPV4 (sum) > 2 x /29 Block of IPV6 (sum) > 16 x ASN > > If again pass one or more of these +1500 Euro and so on. > > > RIPE to send emails to each member with calculation for its next year fee, and with ask to free resources and return back to RIPE. Newly freed resources to be spread across members who not reach the first target (or at least to can ask for new resources without additional fee): > > 1 x /20 Block of IPV4 (sum can be 16 x /24 or 4 x /22 e.t.c.) > 1 x /29 Block of IPV6 (sum can be 8 x /32... e.t.c) > 8 x ASNs > > To legacy resource holders to be given 1 year, to find sponsoring LIR, and their resources to be counted in the LIR account sum resources. Or to be asked to become LIRs, with 500 euro one pay joining fee. > > > > This way RIPE can predict and calculate its bugdet much better. > > > > Ivaylo Josifov > VarnaIX / Varteh LTD > +359 52 969393 > Varna, Bulgaria > > > On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, Firma KOMPEX wrote: > >> Hi >> >> it would be fair if the resource was not valued as a resource only as >> the number of IPs IP should be the basis for settlement - it is >> actually a cost there is a shortage of addresses, and some people have >> a lot of them unused and do not return them. >> If they paid for the addresses and it was a cost for them, they would >> wonder whether they really need them or whether it would be better to >> return some of them. >> >> Pozdrawiam >> Gabriel Sulka >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> Firma Handlowo - Us?ugowa KOMPEX >> 34-400 Nowy Targ ul. Szaflarska 62A >> tel(18) 264-60-55 pn-pt 09:30 - 17:00 sb. 09:30 - 13:00 >> http://www.k/ >> ompex.pl%2F&data=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C9925aa0ba >> c9844e2301e08dc500035da%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C6 >> 38473209301289732%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoi >> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vRog6oP4 >> cUl4jHHJwJtNmslrzbOIHlONn0zSTZyVOW8%3D&reserved=0 ; bok(a)kompex.pl ; >> kompex(a)nowytarg.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net> On Behalf Of >> Gert Doering >> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2024 12:49 PM >> To: domain(a)wkey.it >> Cc: members-discuss(a)ripe.net >> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: >> Recording and Slides Available >> >> Hi, >> >> On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 07:04:30PM +0100, Andrea Borghi wrote: >>> My humble proposal is to class basing on how many additional >>> resources a company have beyond the basics that was valid at the time >>> of joining >> Ripe. >> >> ... and possibly how old these resources are... we got our blocks in >> 1995/1996, and they are considered "large" by today's standards. Back >> then, it was what you got as a fast-growing small ISP... >> >> So if we really go for something based on allocation size, adding a >> yearly depreciation factor in would make this "more fair" (... we've >> been paying our share for the last 29(!) years already). >> >> Gert Doering >> -- NetMaster >> -- >> have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? >> >> SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael >> Emmer, >> Ingo Lalla, Karin Schuler >> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann >> D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) >> Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> members-discuss mailing list >> members-discuss(a)ripe.net >> https://list/ >> s.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7CEvgen >> iy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C9925aa0bac9844e2301e08dc500035da%7Cf8f9bd >> 573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C638473209301298466%7CUnknown%7CTW >> FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6 >> Mn0%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=zGN5MtVkwMRKjIKh8U8zUxrmFFkQrZJ4eiuEv%2B >> RKwu8%3D&reserved=0 >> Unsubscribe: >> https://list/ >> s.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fivaylo%2540bglans.n >> et&data=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C9925aa0bac9844e230 >> 1e08dc500035da%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C6384732093 >> 01303571%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL >> CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=p4kryouKS1u%2F%2F >> mNi3sDc3friXMlh5MIiUrR8nVxR5m0%3D&reserved=0 >> > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss(a)ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/registry%40kyivstar.… >

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Questions about the published Draft Agenda and Supporting Documents
by Erik Bais 30 Mar '24

30 Mar '24

Dear Hans Petter, Thank you for providing the supporting documents for the GM in Rome. Before we are going to be in Rome, I have a question for you and I cc:'ed the member-discuss ML, as I'm sure some other members might also have a couple questions on the following topic. I would like to ask you, how the RIPE NCC thought it was a great slide to present just a 2Milj Euro budget cut .. as if it was the best it could do .. given that it was stated on the last GM .. that it wasn't going to increase the budget .. And with the inflation, basically what that means .. you need to cut cost and cut hard ... So I would assume that the Director of the NCC .. would see this as an opportunity ... and discuss with management and staff, what is excessive .. and where can we 'kill our darlings' ... As for any writer that needs to do proper editing of a long novel .. I get the feeling that you didn't went/wanted to go through that process .. not as fierce as that the membership have suggested you to do .. And I would suggest that this budget document, need some serious editing ... One of the reasons for my disbelieve that you did that process already properly .. is that if I see an IT spend of 7.6 milj. Euro (2023 ) and you proudly present that the IT spend for 2024 is going to be 7.4 milj Euro .. Either you have a HUGE technical debt that you can't manage .. or you didn't went head to head with your CTO / IT Director ... and stopped asking for more cuts until he actually sad in your office crying in despair. Just an example ... If I'm correct, the RIPE NCC is currently in a datacenter facility in Amsterdam .. with roughly 80 cabinets filled with $random equipment, almost half of that (most likely as my gut feeling is ) to store and hold every single ICMP ping/trace life on disk etc.. since the conception of the Atlas project.. And the best you can come back to the community is .. we've managed to reduce the cost of Atlas with 50.000 euro p/yr ? The proper question to ask is, do we need every freaking completed test to store that into infinity on spinning disks .. because we never asked the community if we can just through away every PING test result after 60 days . and save 20 cabinets in storage, equipment and power usage. Who are you kidding ... And that colocation / hw cost is next to the already half milj. Euro charge for the public cloud (AWS) already (per year..) So I seriously wonder if you asked the right questions instead of just tried to maintain the status quo ... One of those 'services' that I seriously think that the NCC should step away from .. is providing 'secondary' DNS server for reverse dns .. I mean .. come on .. how hard is that for the community to manage that by themselves .. and just because the NCC did that since the conception of the NCC ( or at least longer than I can remember ) .. is that still something that people use and expect the NCC to provide ? It might be good suggestion to setup an impartial task force / audit team.. reporting to the Executive Board (EB) .. that does (IT) spending audits .. looking for projects that are WAY over budgets, technical debt, overspending due to historic reasoning etc.. These should be externals to the RIPE NCC (staff), but with lots of different views and know how to spot a pet project when they see one .Or project, because we always did it that way. And then report to the EB with suggestions on how to act on it. I think it is then up to the EB, to discuss those findings internally and decide to have the discussion with the RIPE NCC Management on how to change and reduce the technical debt and how to actual cut cost. I have a gut feeling that the EB isn't getting all the information during the EB meetings or during the follow up's or it takes AGES to obtain the information or it is based on consolidated info, with 3 layers of management cutting and rewriting in between. The "Kill Your Darlings Audit Team" ( KYDAT ), should be the fresh look, to see if the NCC is still doing the right things .. and if the RIPE NCC management is managing towards a more agile and leaner future. This doesn't mean .. let's host everything at the public cloud and see how long the credit card keeps clearing .. it means that common sense with eye's from the outside of the RIPE NCC, might help to provide a better insight. The benefit of KYDAT is that they aren't 'burdened' with employee politics or with smoke and mirrors of certain management that is withholding / stalling documents of how bad it really is .. they will look for themselves .. and report and suggest. I don't envy the role that you have been tasked with ... But I was expecting something more serious .. Regards, Erik Bais

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Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available
by Andrea Borghi 29 Mar '24

29 Mar '24

On Thursday 28 March 2024 18:17:47 Sebastien Brossier wrote: > On 28/03/2024 16:53, sdy(a)a-n-t.ru wrote: [..] > You're right, small and big can mean different things and there are > various financial realities. > > But the only practical metric for RIPE NCC is the number of IP > addresses. From there we can only assume that LIRs with lots of IP > addresses have enough money for a higher membership fee, and that LIRs > with very limited finances just have their initial allocation. > Far from perfect, but it is difficult to do better. [..] Please keep in mind that we moved from an allocation of an intangible technical resource (IPv4 addresses) to a scarcity of that while permitting the sale of that resource between parties, thus creating a market that assigned a value to that resource and consequentially has created an asset value that the companies have (should have?) put in the balance sheet. With this view is not so immediate to force the small companies (the not so small ones doesn't have this problem) to devalue their company in order to keep the costs low. It is a slippery road and for me was the first obrstacle to the poll and the resolution last year. From a practical stand point i think we can make a more informed calculation based on HOW MANY additional resources a company has requested and was granted beyond their INITIAL allocation ad the last-assignment in case of v4. See to myself, for example, i have a /21 that was the standard allocation at the time of me joining Ripe, and the last v4 allocation we all been offered in the past. Beyond that i will get my standard initial allocation of v6 addresses. Can I considered a big player? by no means. But last year in the proposal I was in the medium category with almost doubling the membership, and if forced to sell the addresses I have free at the moment i will suffer almost an halfing of the assets of my company, so i am not inclined to do that for a miriad of reasons. My humble proposal is to class basing on how many additional resources a company have beyond the basics that was valid at the time of joining Ripe. This manner of thinking, will naturally shift the majority of financial burdens to the very large organizations that, for the fact to be very large, can handle the money BUT with the provision to not alter the governance of Ripe (more money normally makes more power and influence, and we don't want this.) Best Regards, Andrea Borghi --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrea Borghi - W KEY srl - http://www.wkey.it

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RIPE NCC Security Update
by Eleonora Petridou 19 Mar '24

19 Mar '24

Dear colleagues, We would like to share some updates regarding security measures available to RIPE NCC members. We have now introduced a feature that shows LIR administrators whether or not two-factor authentication (2FA) has been enabled by users on their LIR account. This feature allows LIR administrators greater insight into the security measures being implemented within their teams. Please note that only admins have access to this feature. We have also strengthened password requirements and added a reminder to enable 2FA when users log in to their RIPE NCC Access accounts. This is an interim measure until mandatory 2FA is rolled out. Our roadmaps have been updated to expedite the rollout of mandatory two-factor authentication: https://www.ripe.net/support/documentation/quarterly-planning/business-appl… The rollout is currently planned to take place towards the end of Q1 2024. Additionally, we have increased our efforts to actively identify leaked credentials available online and to reset those passwords. The password reset process for any credentials identified as leaked through our monitoring system has been automated. We urge all members to be mindful of their password security and to enable two-factor authentication. Please follow our security recommendations: - Review your LIR account(s), restrict access to necessary personnel only and remove former employee accounts. - Make use of our new feature and ensure that all users on your account enable two-factor authentication. - If you use a password management tool, we recommend that you enable data breach monitoring for your own credentials. Kind regards, Eleonora Petridou Chief Information Security Officer RIPE NCC

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Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025
by Fergal Cunningham 18 Mar '24

18 Mar '24

Dear RIPE NCC members, I want to remind you that this Wednesday, 20 March, from 10:00-11:30 UTC (11:00-12:30 CET) we will have an Open House where members can give their input on the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. You can register to attend now at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-schem… This open house will kick off discussion on the charging scheme and will give the Executive Board valuable input ahead of its meeting on 25 March, where it will decide on the draft charging proposal it will present to the members. All those who register to attend will receive a Meetecho link to participate in the open house on Wednesday morning. This year, we want to receive input from members before publishing any draft charging scheme. We believe this will help to arrive at a good proposal well in advance of the General Meeting. To help with discussions, we also provide a consultation page where members can see relevant facts and documentation about the charging scheme as well as the financial landscape the RIPE NCC is operating in. We will develop this page with further information as the consultation progresses: https://www.ripe.net/membership/mail/member-and-community-consultations/cha… We look forward to your involvement in this important process for RIPE NCC members. Kind regards, Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC Key Dates 20 March - Consultation with members begins at Charging Scheme 2025 Open House 25 March - RIPE NCC Executive Board discusses charging scheme proposal to put forward to members 27 March - Registration for RIPE NCC General Meeting opens 10 April - Draft charging scheme proposal published for members to discuss 24 April - Final charging scheme proposal published for members to vote on 22-24 May - RIPE NCC membership votes on charging scheme options for 2025

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RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025: Open House on 20 March 11:00-12:30 UTC+1
by Fergal Cunningham 05 Mar '24

05 Mar '24

Dear members, We invite you to take part in an Open House on 20 March to discuss the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. This year, we would like to get input from the members before the Executive Board proposes one or more charging schemes to be discussed and voted on by members. You can register to attend now at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-schem… The RIPE NCC will give a presentation at the Open House that explains the current outlook and financial considerations, and then take input and guidance from the members on this important topic. The Open House will be recorded for those who can not attend on the day. The following Monday, 25 March, a RIPE NCC Executive Board Meeting will take place where the Board and Management will discuss the input from members and decide on one or more draft charging schemes to propose to the membership to be voted on at the May General Meeting. We will provide background information and data that can help guide discussions ahead of the Open House. And of course we encourage members to continue to discuss the 2025 charging scheme on this list after the Open House takes place. We look forward to your participation. Kind regards, Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC

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