July 2022 - members-discuss - mailman.ripe.net

Clarifications on NRO Letter to Mauritian Government
by Hans Petter Holen 29 Jul '22

29 Jul '22

Dear all, I will respond where I can, although the RIPE NCC cannot speak for AFRINIC, and any statement on behalf of the NRO needs to be made jointly with the other four RIRs. First, I would like to address the concerns about the language used in the NRO letter to the Mauritian government. It was not written in a tone that we would use under ordinary circumstances. The letter could have been worded better in parts, and it obviously led to our message being misconstrued. We take note of this and will do better in this regard. Further, some of you have expressed concerns that this letter was an attempt by the NRO to interfere in the judicial processes of Mauritius. However, this was not the intention. As I said in my previous email, we simply wanted to lend weight to AFRINIC's request and help to ensure its ability to provide services to its members. In no way do we believe it is our place (or the NRO’s for that matter) to influence judicial processes in a sovereign nation. Coming to the issue of “international status” for RIRs, this status can mean different things under different jurisdictions. The RIPE NCC has not requested "international status" from any Dutch or international body. What such status might mean for AFRINIC would be for the Mauritian government to evaluate. For the RIPE NCC, you, our members, are the ultimate governing body, and any potential changes to our legal status would be made in consultation with you. I agree fully with comments that the issues with AFRINIC's governance need to be addressed and I want to reiterate that only the members of AFRINIC and the Internet community in Africa can resolve them. We encourage AFRINIC's members and community to contribute constructively to improve this situation. All our efforts have been guided by the desire to support the stability of the global RIR system, which as Lu correctly points out, is a global, bottom-up, community-driven project. This is how the Internet has been built and, we hope, will continue to be governed. Finally, this list is under moderation and we will continue to ensure that all mails that are put through to the list abide by the code of conduct. Sincerely, Hans Petter Holen Managing Director RIPE NCC

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NRO letter to Mauritian Government
by Sander Steffann 22 Jul '22

22 Jul '22

Hi, I just read the message from the NRO (co-signed by Hans Petter Holen on behalf of the RIPE NCC) to the Mauritian Government: https://www.nro.net/nro-letter-to-mauritius-government/ and I must say I was shocked. The letter is about the lawsuits of Cloud Innovation Ltd (Lu Heng) against AFRINIC. The NRO is urging the government to recognise AFRINIC as an international organisation "that if granted, it might lead to more appropriate outcomes”. So basically the NRO is urging the Mauritian government’s executive branch to intervene in its judicial branch. Asking a government is to violate their separation of powers is NOT OK™. Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t like Lu Heng and the way he does business, but not all his lawsuits are without merit, so this is something for the Mauritian court to decide. The NRO pushing the government to intervene goes against the basis of the democratic system. The letter even does more than urging. It basically threatens/insults Mauritius: """ To successfully operate a continental wide entity such as AFRINIC, the African Internet community deliberately chose to locate its headquarters in Mauritius in order to obtain the benefit of a stable and consistent legal system. [...] It would be very unfortunate for the African regional community if the above situation proves that the designation of Mauritius as the place to locate AFRINIC has been wrong. """ This letter has raised some eyebrows around the world (and as I understand it in Brussels) to say the least. I would like a response from the RIPE NCC and its board on how they have dared to write such a letter. Sincerely, Sander Steffann

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Update on ruling by Supreme Court of Mauritius in favour of Cloud Innovation
by Lu Heng 20 Jul '22

20 Jul '22

Dear RIPE community, The Supreme Court of Mauritius has ruled in favour of Cloud Innovation against AFRINIC's numerous attempts to block access to justice. Specifically the Judge ruled that Cloud Innovation was "not vaxacious" and agreed that Cloud Innovation has every right to protect it's legal position by seeking injunctions against AFRINIC's attempt to block our case. The Judge has ruled that Cloud Innovation's case against AFRINIC may proceed to trial. In light of this judgement, Cloud Innovation have issued a press release which can be find at link below together with the judgement. I hope you will to read both to understand the importance of the consequences of the Judgement. Since the court has ruled that me and my company are not a vaxacious litigant, the accusation of me and my company being vaxacious as stated in the ill-advised NRO letter is considered to be potentially criminal defamation as per Mauritius law. I request that the authors of the RIPE NCC letter, plus those individuals that advised them to write such a letter, to urgently reconsider their position publicly. And if, they ware mislead by someone to sign such letter, it's time to explain before future potential proceedings bought by Mauritius judicatory system. The Judge ruled: "I do not agree that the applicant is, in respect of the application before me, being a vexatious litigant causing prejudice to the respondent. Although it is undeniable that there has been a history of cases lodged by the applicant during the past year, there have been various intervening factors throughout and it cannot be said that the issues which require determination in the present 17 case have already been settled by a court decision, or that to continue with the present proceedings would amount to an abuse of process. " Well in advance of this Judgement, I called on AFRINIC to enter into mediation. My multiple requests were ignored. Mediation could have ensured a private settlement on the issues without the need for a public Judgement. AFRINIC rejected my offer to mediate. Instead, AFRINIC continued to waste a significant amount of member's resources on attempting to deny a legitimate dispute from being heard by an impartial Judge. I am always open to mediation and my door remains open to AFRINIC to discuss and resolve our issues. AFRINIC's attempt to deny access to justice opens up some very serious questions about the behaviour, motivation and judgement of the leadership of AFRINIC that the RIPE community now need to consider carefully. Whilst I am obviously pleased with the Judgement, I take no pleasure in saying that the Judgement shows we should never have even put in this position by AFRINIC and laterally by other individuals potentially in RIPE NCC as well. Their behaviour has caused me and my company significant reputational and financial damage. There is now an understanding in the RIPE community that AFRINIC actions and attitude has also been damaging to themselves and our wider community. Separate to the potential forthcoming legal cases brought by eight different claimants, real change has to be seen to be made now in ARFINIC to ensure that the organisation is fit for purpose and serves the interests of global internet community and not just a few individuals at the top. I urge the community to read both the press release and the judgement to have a better understanding of the situation: https://cloudinnovation.org/press-release5.html https://cloudinnovation.org/attachmentlist/cloud-innovation-ltd-v-african-n… Kind regards Lu

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Re: [members-discuss] Moderation approval timeline
by Fergal Cunningham 19 Jul '22

19 Jul '22

Dear Lu, The current moderation policy involves one designated member of the RIPE NCC staff and one from the Board reviewing emails sent to the mailing list during office hours (at least once per day). Unfortunately, this does introduce the human element. One of our moderators was unavailable for most of yesterday, which meant that mails were moderated early in the day as required by the policy but this was not possible for the rest of the day. Rest assured that all valid emails will eventually find their way to the list. We appreciate your understanding if this takes a little longer than usual. Best regards, Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC Hi What is moderation policy currently in this list? I have sent an email to the list but didn't see it appear in achieve. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited

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Moderation approval timeline
by Lu Heng 19 Jul '22

19 Jul '22

Hi What is moderation policy currently in this list? I have sent an email to the list but didn't see it appear in achieve. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.

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Second attempt in declaring my position
by Sander Steffann 18 Jul '22

18 Jul '22

Hi everybody, My previous version of this email got rejected by RIPE NCC moderation, so let me try again… I have understood that people have interpreted this bit in a way that I didn’t mean: > Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t like Lu Heng and the way he does business, but not all his lawsuits are without merit Let me put that in very clear words: I personally extremely strongly oppose what Lu Heng is doing, his apparent morals and ethics, the way he does business etc. The way he is suing AFRINIC, blocking their bank accounts and stuff like that, just for personal/business benefit, is very much not ok. But… He is also not stupid. He abuses things that are actually wrong in AFRINIC to get what he wants. Just because he’s doing things that I think are very bad doesn’t mean that he is always wrong. Scary: definitely! Bad: definitely! But: the way to solve this is by getting things in order inside AFRINIC and by going through the proper legal channels in Mauritius. This is not something that is up to us, the RIRs or the NRO to fix. This is something for the African legal system and the African community to solve. We do not control their fate. My apologies if anyone thought that I support Lu Heng in this. I very strongly do not. But I do oppose to the way the NRO is getting involved. Cheers, Sander

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