July 2018 - members-discuss - mailman.ripe.net

RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
by olena.dmytrenko＠bignet.ua 24 Jul '18

24 Jul '18

Hello everybody! We got a problem! We want to share it with you to find out your opinion on this matter. We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved. As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth. But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018). We would like to see and discuss the rules, where it is prescribed what to pay in such cases. Where we can read the regulation that you need to pay an annual fee for the quarters in which Lir did not even exist. Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company. Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR? --Olena Dmytrenko

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Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
by Christoph Neukirch 23 Jul '18

23 Jul '18

Hi, From the OP: We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved. As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth. But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018). This matches to at least point 2, maybe to point one. Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company. Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR? Again “A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s). Only when the full annual service fee for every LIR account has been paid can the transfer or closure take place. If a member chooses to close one or more of the LIR accounts they hold in the course of the RIPE NCC financial year, the service fees for the relevant LIR accounts must still be paid in full. If the service fee has already been paid in full, no pro rata refunds will apply.” If you don’t like it, create a draft in the PDP and ask the community to adopt. If the community doesn’t adopt, you’re free to disagree and commit, but you have to stick to the rules. Absolutely no matter for such a discussion outside of the PDP, which is nothing more, than annoying. kind regards Christoph Neukirch From: Igor Slesarev [mailto:hostmaster.igor@gmail.com] Sent: Montag, 23. Juli 2018 10:03 To: Christoph Neukirch <Christoph.Neukirch(a)xing.com> Cc: members-discuss(a)ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly Are you kidding? The reason is only one. RIPE forces them to pay extra 350 euro for the 1st quartal 2018 by the agreement which was issued in the 2d quartal and don't relate to LIR and the subject of the transfer. Igor Slesarev 2018-07-20 13:32 GMT+00:00 Christoph Neukirch <Christoph.Neukirch(a)xing.com<mailto:Christoph.Neukirch@xing.com>>: Guys, There is no problem. What’s so hard to read and understand the rules and policies. It has been written and described multiple times in this thread. And policies has been accepted signing the contract with RIPE NCC. In simple short words: * For opening a LIR in the middle of the year you have to pay the current and all following quarters for the current year. * If you want to close a LIR, you have to pay at least ONE FULL annual fee for this LIR, no matter if it’s the first year and you would only have to pay for quarters from the creation of the year. * Same applies to your wish to transfer resources. * Annual means once every year, not once in a timeframe including 12 months. * You DON’T pay for resources, you pay for services from RIPE NCC, both sides using policies and rules developed by the RIPE community. Having said this, I second the opinion to not expect too much sympathy on this topic. And IMHO you’ll achieve the opposite pushing this topic any further. kind regards, Christoph Neukirch From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>] On Behalf Of ???? ???????? Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2018 11:10 To: members-discuss(a)ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly If they have 5 LIRs, so that means RIPE NCC gave them this possibility. Instead of attacking the company Bignet, which according to the policy registered 5 lirs. (You have the right to register as many LIRs as you want) you'd rather have paid attention to the problem they described. RIPE asks to pay for 3 months for the service that was not provided. If the payment is annual, ok, lets be the payment for the period 04.2018-04.2019. Kind regards, Inna --- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "Viethen, Christoph" <viethen(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de<mailto:viethen@itc.rwth-aachen.de>> Дата: 19 липня 2018, 10:49:20 I'm getting the impression we have quite a lot of experts on Dutch law around on this list. Fascinating! Kind regards, C. ________________________________ From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> on behalf of Сергій Черьомуш <bestseller.group(a)ukr.net<mailto:bestseller.group@ukr.net>> Sent: 17 July 2018 11:26:59 To: Aleksey Bulgakov Cc: members-discuss(a)ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly "There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it." Each organization has its own set of rules, but they can not contradict the law. I also do not understand how it is possible to bill for a service under the agreement "after the fact". Kind regards, Sergey Cheromush 17 липня 2018, 10:57:45, від "Aleksey Bulgakov" <aleksbulgakov(a)gmail.com<mailto:aleksbulgakov@gmail.com>>: Hi. There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it. But it shows that it cares about members trying to keep IPv4 pool available for future business so long asit possible. But there is market where everyone can buy necessary IPv4 without request to mantioned organisation. вт, 17 Июл 2018 г., 9:05 Andrey Levrinets <levrinets.andrey(a)ukr.net<mailto:levrinets.andrey@ukr.net>>: Hi all, "A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)" There is no word about accounts that have not been active for the full year. -- Andrey 16 липня 2018, 13:01:52, від "Freethought Hostmaster" <hostmaster(a)freethought-internet.co.uk<mailto:hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk>>: Hi Jens, Actually, the RIPE service fee for new members is charged on a pro-rata basis, so if you join part way through the year, then you only pay for part of the year. I seem to recall that this is done down quarterly granularity. See https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/billing-procedure-a… for example. Edward Dore Freethought Internet From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> on behalf of Jens Ott <ripe(a)opteamax.de<mailto:ripe@opteamax.de>> Date: Monday, 16 July 2018 at 07:02 To: "members-discuss(a)ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>" <members-discuss(a)ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly Hi, Please read the charging scheme carefully, it only talks about an annual fee. The offer to pay it in 4 steps is just an offer but doesn't change anything about the amount. There is no monthly fee or daily fee... There are no definitions that entering over the year reduces the costs. Maybe we should just remove that offer to not pay everything at once, this would decrease discussions and time for processing a transfer. BR Jens _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss(a)ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/levrinets.andrey%40u… _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss(a)ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/aleksbulgakov%40gmai… _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss(a)ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bestseller.group%40u… _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss(a)ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/navis.group%40ukr.net _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss(a)ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hostmaster.igor%40gm…

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Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
by Paul Thornton 10 Jul '18

10 Jul '18

On 10/07/2018 09:31, Martin Huněk wrote: > Dear Olena, > > stop looking for sympathy here, you get none. > > As you have written, you have 5 LIRs. It means that you probably have five times more IPv4 space that you deserved. As you might know, these addresses are reserved for late comers so they get at least some portion of the IPv4 space. Every thing else is just a tolerated abuse. Only unfair thing about this whole thing is that it is still tolerated (in the name of accurate database). So it is only fair that you had to pay for such "abuse" of (post-) last /8 space. These rules are there precisely because of that. > I am curious as to how the OP is able to transfer what is clearly non-legacy space out of this LIR when by their own admission, it hasn't been in existence for two years. Paul.

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