September 2017 - members-discuss

Database Abuse
by Tim Armstrong 07 Sep '17

07 Sep '17

Hi all, Every so often this issue crops up it's ugly head again, RIPE DB abuse is a real problem. Yet again we are receiving unsolicited sales pitches via an e-mail address we only use for the contact details in our RIPE DB entries. We've all seen it; people offering to buy IPv4 blocks, people offering to sell IPv4 blocks, DDoS filtering, etc. It's a plague of poorly constructed pitches for services none of us want to waste time reading about. If we want such products, we all know how find them, and yet the e-mails don't stop coming. I am not one for publicly shaming other members of the community, but if it doesn't stop, I don't see how I have a choice. They need to learn that database abuse leads to boycott. The database is an operations tool for de-bugging and reporting issues & abuse; not a sales team's list of "potential leads". I hate to bring this subject up again, but is there really nothing structural we can do about this? At a minimum we could occlude e-mail addresses from the public DB, instead having public complaint submitted via a webform on the NCC website, requiring the uninitiated to realise this is an abuse / complaint contact, not a sales opportunity. Thanks, Tim. -- *Tim Armstrong*Dark Lord of Network Operations +31 6 175 444 72 <+31617544472>

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Re: [members-discuss] New comment - [#6372] Database Abuse
by Tim Armstrong 07 Sep '17

07 Sep '17

Which is, to a certain extent, a requirement. But that's not the real issue, I don't mind people knowing my name, I just want a world where NOC and Abuse contacts aren't be spammed with sales pitches constantly. On 7 Sep 2017 10:05 am, "Christoffer Hansen" <cdh(a)nianet.dk> wrote: > If individual employees contact details are being readily exposed > Only if you have entered them in the RIPE DB on objects. (fx. person, abuse, update etc.) On 9/5/2017 13:40, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: > How does the RIPE DB and its current protections (or lack of them) work > within the framework of GDPR? > > > > If individual employees contact details are being readily exposed then > that could be a serious problem for both us as a LIR and for RIPE. > > > > Regards > > > > Michele > > > > > > -- > > Mr Michele Neylon > > Blacknight Solutions > > Hosting, Colocation & Domains > > https://www.blacknight.com/ > > http://blacknight.blog/ > > Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 > > Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 > > Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ > > Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ > > ------------------------------- > > Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty > > Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 > > > > *From: *members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net> on behalf of > Tim Armstrong <t.armstrong(a)nerdalize.com> > *Date: *Tuesday 5 September 2017 at 09:52 > *To: *Catalin Dominte <catalin.dominte(a)paragon.net.uk> > *Cc: *"members-discuss(a)ripe.net" <members-discuss(a)ripe.net> > *Subject: *Re: [members-discuss] New comment - [#6372] Database Abuse > > > > I agree entirely. > > > > Yes the list of sales contact ones are quite funny. > > > > On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 10:45 AM, Catalin Dominte > <catalin.dominte(a)paragon.net.uk <mailto:catalin.dominte@paragon.net.uk>> > wrote: > > If RIPE decide to use forms (mainly for abuse reporting), that would > be great. Actual email addresses for peering purposes can be gleaned > from PeeringDB if one has an account there. > > > > My recent favourite email I get on the ripe addresses is if I am > interested in a list of brand new contacts for C level management > from various industries. Reported them all as spam, but they never > stop. > > > > *Catalin Dominte* > > Network Manager | Paragon Internet Group > > /Office: +44 (0)1628 200 219 <tel:+44%201628%20200219>/ > > > > The above information is confidential to the addressee and may be > privileged. Unauthorised access and use is prohibited. Internet > communications are not secure and therefore this company does not > accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. If you > are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, > distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance > on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Paragon Internet Group Ltd > is registered in England and Wales, Company No.07573953 > > > > On 5 September 2017 at 09:40:56, Telecoms (telco(a)intrinsec.com > <mailto:telco@intrinsec.com>) wrote: > > There is a new comment in the ticket submitted by Tim Armstrong > to Cloud Temple - Cloud Operations > > > Comment added by : Tim Armstrong > > Comment Content: > > And while we are at it, perhaps we could do something about all > the freaking Bots on this mailing list? I just got eight > auto-replies! > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 10:35 AM, Tim Armstrong > <t.armstrong(a)nerdalize.com > <mailto:t.armstrong@nerdalize.com>> wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Every so often this issue crops up it's ugly head again, > RIPE DB abuse is a real problem. > > Yet again we are receiving unsolicited sales pitches via > an e-mail address we only use for the contact details in > our RIPE DB entries. > > > > We've all seen it; people offering to buy IPv4 blocks, > people offering to sell IPv4 blocks, DDoS filtering, > etc. It's a plague of poorly constructed pitches for > services none of us want to waste time reading about. If > we want such products, we all know how find them, and > yet the e-mails don't stop coming. > > > > I am not one for publicly shaming other members of the > community, but if it doesn't stop, I don't see how I > have a choice. They need to learn that database abuse > leads to boycott. > > The database is an operations tool for de-bugging and > reporting issues & abuse; not a sales team's list of > "potential leads". > > > > I hate to bring this subject up again, but is there > really nothing structural we can do about this? > > At a minimum we could occlude e-mail addresses from the > public DB, instead having public complaint submitted via > a webform on the NCC website, requiring the uninitiated > to realise this is an abuse / complaint contact, not a > sales opportunity. > > > > > > Thanks, > > Tim. > > > > -- > > *Tim Armstrong** > *Dark Lord of Network Operations > +31 6 175 444 72 > > > > > > -- > > *Tim Armstrong > *Dark Lord of Network Operations > +31 6 175 444 72 > > > > > 6372:154148 > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC > members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to > the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing > Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". > From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > > > > -- > > *Tim Armstrong > *Dark Lord of Network Operations > +31 6 175 444 72 <tel:+31617544472> > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

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Re: [members-discuss] Database Abuse
by Martin List-Petersen 07 Sep '17

07 Sep '17

On 07/09/17 10:26, Tim Armstrong wrote: > I don't think it's too much to ask them to sign up, but perhaps there is > some way to allow them to login and view the full DB with credentials from > their own RIR? That would mean, that the other RIRs have to disclose credentials, give access or develop an API together. Even now, the DB systems and their output can differ quite a bit. I don't disagree, that information, like the email-address shouldn't just be easily available to scrape for mass mailing. In the case of a few country domain registries, it's been done by no displaying the email information via whois or in the complete DB download and the information only being available when querying the data via web after bot-check etc., which would be quite discouraging, as you'd have to sit and query each and every record manually. The problem you run into then, is that somebody that really wants to spam you just would hire some cheap labour (India etc.) to retrieve the data though. Kind regards, Martin List-Petersen Airwire Ltd. > > On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Martin List-Petersen <martin(a)airwire.ie> > wrote: > >> On 07/09/17 09:17, Tim Armstrong wrote: >> >>> Or if your details are in the list and / or you are a technical contact >>> attached to an LIR then you can see everything. >>> Only non-technical / non-LIR people can't access it. >>> Perhaps use passing the RIPE DB Training course as a requirement for >>> access. >>> >> >> >> Well, that's where you're not thinking globally though. >> >> Not every tech, that has need for the information in the RIPEdb, is >> automatically a RIPE member. They could be operating using other provider >> IPs or a member of ARIN/APNIC/AfriNIC for example. >> >> Kind regards, >> Martin List-Petersen >> Airwire Ltd. >> >> >> >> >>> >>> On 7 Sep 2017 10:06 am, "Vegard Svanberg" <vegard(a)monsternett.no> wrote: >>> >>> * Tim Armstrong <t.armstrong(a)nerdalize.com> [2017-09-05 10:36]: >>>> >>>> I hate to bring this subject up again, but is there really nothing >>>>> structural we can do about this? >>>>> At a minimum we could occlude e-mail addresses from the public DB, >>>>> instead having public complaint submitted via a webform on the NCC >>>>> website, requiring the uninitiated to realise this is an abuse / >>>>> complaint contact, not a sales opportunity. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I understand the problem (and get those pitches myself nearly daily). I >>>> have no alternative, simple solutions. I also haven't thought this >>>> through in detail. :-) However, and despite all that: I'd oppose the >>>> idea of hiding/obfuscating emails and centralising/limiting feedback >>>> loops to the NCC website. I'm concerned about the operational >>>> consequences of limiting the opportunity to collect emails and build and >>>> maintain lists of contact points (potentially) important for operations. >>>> >>>> And if we remove just emails, we'd probably have to do the same with >>>> phone numbers. They're calling from time to time as well. >>>> >>>> Again, I haven't thought this through, but it's the knee-jerk response >>>> anyway. Perhaps naming, shaming and blacklisting the offenders might be >>>> a better way to go. Perhaps verified members could get regular database >>>> dumps (including contact info) from other sources, or authenticate >>>> against the db to get the whole lot. I don't know. I'm not sure the >>>> problem is big enough to warrant any major changes. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -o) Vegard Svanberg, MD - Monsternett (www.monsternett.no) >>>> /\\ Violgata 3A, N-1776 HALDEN, NORWAY >>>> _\_v Phone: (+47) 69701802 | Fax: (+47) 69701801 >>>> >>>> >>>> ---- >>>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >>>> general page: >>>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >>>> >>>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >>>> here, you can add or remove addresses. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ---- >>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >>> general page: >>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >>> >>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >>> here, you can add or remove addresses. >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Airwire Ltd. - Ag Nascadh Pobail an Iarthair >> http://www.airwire.ie >> Phone: 091-865 968 >> Registered Office: Moy, Kinvara, Co. Galway, 091-865 968 - Registered in >> Ireland No. 508961 >> > > > -- Airwire Ltd. - Ag Nascadh Pobail an Iarthair http://www.airwire.ie Phone: 091-865 968 Registered Office: Moy, Kinvara, Co. Galway, 091-865 968 - Registered in Ireland No. 508961

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Moderation Enabled on Members-Discuss/Subscription Information
by Fergal Cunningham 05 Sep '17

05 Sep '17

Dear colleagues, Due to the number of unsubscribe requests, we have temporarily enabled moderation on <members-discuss(a)ripe.net>. We will disable this once these emails cease. We will also make sure appropriate messages are put through to the list. If you are receiving these emails and you did not subscribe to the members-discuss list, it is possible that a colleague subscribed you or a role account/email alias that you use. Please check your LIR account settings: https://my.ripe.net/#/account-details For those of you who are unfamiliar with this mailing list, you can find more information below. Kind regards, Fergal Cunningham Membership Communications Officer RIPE NCC ***How to Unsubscribe*** To unsubscribe, log in to your LIR account and go to your account settings: https://my.ripe.net/#/account-details At the bottom of the page you will see "Subscribed Mailing Lists" - here you can add or remove email addresses. Subscription changes take up to an hour to be processed. What if you have never heard of RIPE, the RIPE NCC or LIR accounts? - The RIPE NCC is a Regional Internet Registry (RIR) that manages the system of IP addresses. The members-discuss mailing list is where our members discuss issues relating to their membership. - If you are receiving these emails, it means that your company is one of our members, and someone in your IT or network engineering department has likely subscribed your email address to our mailing list. - It may be that an email alias (e.g. hostmaster(a)yourcompany.com or customerservices(a)yourcompany.com) was used to subscribe to this list. Emails to this alias may then be forwarded to a number of different email accounts within your organisation. We have no control over this. - Unfortunately, we are unable to unsubscribe you ourselves, because this would involve accessing your member account. - If you have never heard of the RIPE NCC and are unable to log into LIR account, you may want to talk with your IT or network engineering department. They will likely have login details needed to change the email account that is used to subscribe to the mailing list. You can also email <ncc(a)ripe.net> and we can help you access your account. Further questions? We are happy to discuss this further, but please do not email <members-discuss(a)ripe.net>. Instead, please email <ncc(a)ripe.net>.

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Ticket#227393/landmarkplc/Re: New comment - [#6372] Database Abuse -- has been updated
by Landmark Technologies 05 Sep '17

05 Sep '17

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Ticket#227393/landmarkplc/Re: New comment - [#6372] Database Abuse -- has been updated
by Landmark Technologies 05 Sep '17

05 Sep '17

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Ticket#227393/landmarkplc/Re: New comment - [#6372] Database Abuse -- has been updated
by Landmark Technologies 05 Sep '17

05 Sep '17

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Ticket#227393/landmarkplc/Re: New comment - [#6372] Database Abuse -- has been updated
by Landmark Technologies 05 Sep '17

05 Sep '17

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Remove from group membership
by Dan Gausden 05 Sep '17

05 Sep '17

Please remove me from this distribution list. And ian.vickery(a)solar.co.uk<mailto:ian.vickery@solar.co.uk> also. Thanks Dan Gausden IT Engineer [http://static.solar.co.uk/email/solar.jpg] YOUR PARTNER FOR VOICE, DATA & MOBILE COMMUNICATIONS E: dan.gausden(a)solar.co.uk<mailto:dan.gausden@solar.co.uk> | DDI: +44 1249 467465 | Support: +44 330 3333 999 [onetowatch] [commsbus] [banner] [http://static.solar.co.uk/email/f.png]<http://www.facebook.com/solarcomms> [http://static.solar.co.uk/email/l.jpg] <http://www.linkedin.com/company/solar-communications> [http://static.solar.co.uk/email/t.jpg] <https://twitter.com/SolarComms> www.solar.co.uk<http://www.solar.co.uk/> Please note: A Solar maintenance contract provides you with access to our engineering department who will assist with troubleshooting problems with your Telephone System's configuration, integration and software. If the problem is found to be caused by environmental factors outside of Solar's control, including but not limited to, telephone lines, network and hardware performance (unless also maintained by Solar), Solar's hourly Professional Services rate may apply. If your request falls outside of the terms of your maintenance contract, such as for assistance with administering your Telephone System's software, the Telephone System's server or the infrastructure supporting the software, Solar's hourly Professional Services rate may apply. Solar reserves the right to submit invoices for services rendered. ________________________________ This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed or nominated parties and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Accordingly, any dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this message or any of its content by any person other than the Intended recipient may constitute a breach of civil or criminal law and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from your system. Unless specifically stated to the contrary, any opinions, views or comments are personal to the writer and do not represent the official view of Solar Communications Ltd. As Internet communications are not secure we do not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message or responsibility for any change made to this message after the original sender sent it. Thank you for your co-operation. Registered in England No.2319958

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Ticket#227393/landmarkplc/Re: New comment - [#6372] Database Abuse -- has been updated
by Landmark Technologies 05 Sep '17

05 Sep '17

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