Brilliant solution, Kaj! Let's add 'overthrow your government' to
RIPE's membership requirements. Or - here's a radical idea - we could
relocate RIPE NCC to a jurisdiction that doesn't force us to exclude
members based on geopolitics. One option requires regime change; the
other requires only that RIPE NCC act like the neutral technical body
it claim to be.

On Sat, 2025-05-31 at 13:07 +0000, Kaj Niemi wrote:
>
> Some of the points seem to solve themselves.
>
> I mean Syria is getting off US and EU [1] sanctions lists and all it
> took was a regime change. Perhaps something the others on those lists
> should consider? just a thought.
>
> :)
>
>
> [1]
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.consilium.europa.eu%2Fen%2Fpress%2Fpress-releases%2F2025%2F05%2F28%2Fsyria-eu-adopts-legal-acts-to-lift-economic-sanctions-on-syria-enacting-recent-political-agreement%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ce46c13b283cd4e345c1d08dda04ea92d%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638842982041802298%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C64000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uFdMSLTxdEYaCXzAUSviLhB%2FBuKB1MDjtwfj%2FT7XKew%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
> Kaj
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Denys Fedoryshchenko <nuclearcat@nuclearcat.com>
> Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2025 3:35 PM
> To: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net>
> Subject: [members-discuss] Re: Reminder that Charging Scheme Task
> Force comments are open until the end of the month
>
>  
>
>
> Daniel,
>
> The obstacles you list do more than complicate a tiered-fee
> discussion—they question the wisdom of keeping the RIPE NCC
> incorporated in the Netherlands at all:
>
>     Physical access – Visa barriers exclude members from GM
> participation.
>
>     Geopolitical neutrality – The host state has used armed force
> against several member economies.
>
>     Sanctions exposure – EU measures already restrict Russian,
> Iranian,
> Syrian and other members.
>
>     Tax rigidity – Dutch rules are cited as blocking a usage-based
> charging model adopted by every other RIR.
>
> If the legal and fiscal climate in the Netherlands cannot accommodate
> a
> cost-causation fee structure, we should assess jurisdictions that
> can.
> Comparable non-profit registries in Germany (DENIC), France (AFNIC),
> the UK (Nominet) and Canada (CIRA) all combine member-governed models
> with per-resource charging—without losing tax-exempt status.
>
> Maybe we should expect action: launch a formal study on relocating
> the
> RIPE NCC to a legally neutral venue that:
> - Allows tiered/usage-based fees under clear non-profit rules.
> - Offers visa-light access for all members.
> - Minimises sanctions entanglements.
> - Preserves the community’s oversight and surplus-reinvestment
> principles.
>
> Continuing with a flat-fee model in a restrictive jurisdiction leaves
> a
> growing share of the membership disenfranchised and subsidising the
> heaviest resource users. Let us evaluate relocation now, before
> governance credibility erodes further.
>
> P.S. All four operate under EU or OECD tax codes, none lose their
> non-
> profit status (or equivalent), and each successfully allocates cost
> in
> proportion to resource usage.
>
>
> Nominet UK (Private company limited by guarantee—surpluses reinvested
> for public benefit (no shareholders, no dividends)
> £ 58.6 m (£41.1 m registry, £15.3 m cyber-security, £2.2 m investment
> income)
> Membership fee:
> £400 + VAT one-off joining
> £100 + VAT annual renewal (prorated £50 if joining after 1 Feb)
> Other fees:
> - Domain Availability Checker: £25 / yr
> - Searchable WHOIS: £400 / yr
> - Domain Lock: £90 per name / yr
> - Wholesale registry fee: £3.90 per .uk-year
>
> CIRA (Canada) (Incorporated as a not-for-profit organisation under
> Canadian federal law. )
> C$ 34.3 m total revenue (C$ 29.6 m domain-registry; C$ 4.7 m cyber-
> security & other)
> Membership fee:
> NONE
> Other fees:
> - Wholesale registry fee
>
> DENIC eG (.de) (Private, not-for-profit co-operative (~300 member
> companies))
> € 51.3 m total income; gross earnings € 15.9 m; annual surplus € 0.04
> m
> Membership fee:
> €595 processing (DE) / €500 (non-DE)
> €1 000 admission (one-off)
> €1 500 capital share per unit (min 1, max 3). No published recurring
> dues; the share remains on the books while a member.
> Other fees:
> - Wholesale registry fee
> - Training, escrow, etc. charged separately.
>
> AFNIC (.fr) (Non-profit association governed by French law. )
> € 22.0 m turnover (of which € 20.45 m from .fr)
> Annual dues by college (calendar year):
> - Companies & Registrars: €190
> - Individuals: €50
> - Students: €20
> Other fees:
> - Registrar accreditation: €500 / yr
> - Create / renew / transfer / restore: €4.56 per domain-year (2024
> tariff).
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 2025-05-31 at 09:36 +0200, Daniel Suchy via members-discuss
> wrote:
> > I never said that the layered model would ruin RIPE. That's your
> > personal lie.
> >
> > If we want to compare with other RIRs, we should not cherry-pick
> > just
> > some aspects.  In a similar comparison, we must also take into
> > account
> > the size of the budget and what the money is spent on and where.
> > It's
> > not just about implementing a layered model and problem is solved.
> >
> > It is also true that each RIR lives in a slightly different legal
> > environment. And among other things, the tax implications of the
> > tiered
> > model must also be well evaluated.
> >
> > In our legal environment, tax authorities may assess the tiered
> > model
> > as
> > a provision of a service. Besides, it was an argument at a time
> > when
> > the
> > tiered model was abandoned in RIPE (which many have already
> > forgotten).
> >
> > The argument that they have it that way in the US or Africa
> > probably
> > won't hold up at all before the European (Dutch) tax office. Non-
> > profit
> > organizations usually have some tax breaks. But if the tax office
> > determines that it is a regular service, the tax breaks will
> > disappear.
> >
> > And from my perspective, a better solution is for the money to stay
> > in
> > the community. Not in some government budget.
> >
> > - Daniel
> >
> >
> > On 5/31/25 9:19 AM, Jean Salim wrote:
> > > Please open an IPv6 transition thread and stop the disinformation
> > > in this
> > > thread.
> > > Speaking of which, as pointed out hundred of times, all other
> > > RIRs
> > > have
> > > successfully implemented tiered charging schemes, some of them
> > > with
> > > weighted voting power, others not.
> > > So stop misleading people by saying that tiered charging will
> > > ruin
> > > RIPE
> > > when it's been working fine at other RIRs.
> > >
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