Greetings Having a "mnt-by" in an object prevents anyone not in the maintainer group from changing the data for that object (i.e. an inetnum). Having a "mnt-lower" in an object prevents anyone not in the maintainer group from changing the data below that object. So, I believe, without the "mnt-lower" in an inetnum, it is possible for anyone to add additional inetnum objects into the RIPE database, below your inetnum record, and for them to put another maintainer into the addition. You could then end up with false records within your assignment that you would be unable to remove. kevin
-----Original Message----- From: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven [SMTP:jruigrok@via-net-works.nl] Sent: 03 September 2000 12:23 To: Abdullah Saad Al-Ashry Cc: lir-wg@ripe.net; db-wg@ripe.net Subject: Re: asused question
-On [20000902 10:05], Abdullah Saad Al-Ashry (abdullah@awalnet.net.sa) wrote:
When I use the utility "asused" ftp://ftp.ripe.net/tools/asused-3.5.tar.gz It gives me this warning: **************** Please check the following WARNINGS: 212.xx.xxx.0 - 212.xx.xxx.255 has mnt-lower xxxx attached ****************
You probably have:
mnt-by: MNT-BLAH mnt-lower: MNT-BLAH
which is ambiguous if memory serves me right.
Just remove the mnt-lower.
This is just a guess, since you are paranoia and removed the specifices of your assignment [for which I really cannot find any justification actually, the paranoia that is].
HTH,
kind regards,
-- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Network- and systemadministrator <jruigrok@via-net-works.nl> VIA Net.Works The Netherlands BSD: Technical excellence at its best http://www.via-net-works.nl Come and take a good look deep into these thuggish ruggish eyes. See the thugstas cry. And I'm askin' the good Lord "Why?" and sigh, He told me we lived to die...
Question: can one company foo.com request its LIR to change the company's inetnum (netname, description, tech-c) so it appears to belong to another company bar.com? If yes: who should this request come from (the original requester? management?)? If no: what if foo.com is somehow related to bar.com (e.g. foo.com is a parent or daughter of bar.com)? Suppose bar.com has taken over the internet activities from foo.com? Is there a document describing procedure to follow in such cases? tia Herbert -- HB5351 Herbert Baerten Network Manager @ HostIT Benelux
On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, Herbert Baerten wrote:
can one company foo.com request its LIR to change the company's inetnum (netname, description, tech-c) so it appears to belong to another company bar.com?
RIPE NCC keeps their own internal records on allocated/assigned address space. So, although you may modify anything you like in the RIPE Database, you'll get into conflicts with their internal records and that will probably trigger an auditing action from hostmasters. Not sure about "descr:" and "tech-c:" attributes, but "netname:" change will make inconsistency with internal NCC data for sure. Remember that notice when you get an assignment from NCC (if you want to combine more inetnums into one object, inform NCC ...). Finally, everything depends on your assignment window: if the inetnum covers address space smaller or equal to your assignment window - it's always better to delete the old object and create a new one for the same address range, for another customer and it's higly possible your action won't be audited, since that's a regular action. However, if the assignemnt exceeds your assignment window, it's better that you follow strict procedures: prepare the ripe-141 form for the new customer, get the approval, delete the old object, create a new object. Regards, Beri --------- Berislav Todorovic, Network Engineer --------- ------- KPNQwest N.V. - IP NOC (formerly EUnet NOC) ------- ---- Wilhelmina van Pruisenweg 78, 2595 AN Den Haag, NL ---- --- Phone: +31-70-379-3990; Mobile: +31-651-333-641 --- -- Email: beri@kpnqwest.net <=> beri@EU.net -- --- _ _ ____ _ .--. ____ ____ __/_ --- ----- /__/ /___/ /\ / / / | / /___/ /___ / ------ ------ _/ \_ / _/ \/ (__.\ |/\/ /___ ____/ (__. -----
----- Original Message ----- From: "Berislav Todorovic" <beri@EU.net> To: "Herbert Baerten" <herbert@hostit.be> Cc: <lir-wg@ripe.net> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 10:33 AM Subject: Re: Changing inetnum objects
On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, Herbert Baerten wrote:
can one company foo.com request its LIR to change the company's inetnum (netname, description, tech-c) so it appears to belong to another company bar.com?
RIPE NCC keeps their own internal records on allocated/assigned address space. So, although you may modify anything you like in the RIPE Database, you'll get into conflicts with their internal records and that will probably trigger an auditing action from hostmasters.
Is this correct ? I assume RIPE NCC keep internal records for allocations to LIRs but I can't really see how they could practically do this for assignments from LIRs to their customers ? I see a lot of perfectly good reasons for a LIR to do such changes (without any particular need for consulting the RIPE NCC): - the company has changed its name (i.e. same legal entity, new name) - the company has been merged with another legal entity. (i.e. new legal entity) - the company splits of its internet operations to a separate legal entity and so on... As many if not all of these scenarios are likely change the initial criteria for the assignment there is likely to be a need for the LIR to review the assignment as if the company requested new or additional address space. Whether or not consultation with the RIPE NCC is needed or not would depend on whether the assignment falls within the LIRs current assignment window or not. When that is said, it probably wont hurt to run the case trough the RIPE NCC for a second opinion if you are in doubt. But it is likely to pay off to have done the above mentioned review of the possibly changed assignment criteria before doing so. -hph
Dear all, Hans-Petter has already done a good job clarifying the question below, so I will simply add my additional comments from the RIPE NCC. "Hans Petter Holen" <hph@online.no> writes: * * ----- Original Message ----- * From: "Berislav Todorovic" <beri@EU.net> * To: "Herbert Baerten" <herbert@hostit.be> * Cc: <lir-wg@ripe.net> * Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 10:33 AM * Subject: Re: Changing inetnum objects * * * > On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, Herbert Baerten wrote: * > * > >> can one company foo.com request its LIR to change the company's inetnum * > >> (netname, description, tech-c) so it appears to belong to another * company * > >> bar.com? * > * > RIPE NCC keeps their own internal records on allocated/assigned address * > space. So, although you may modify anything you like in the RIPE * > Database, you'll get into conflicts with their internal records and * > that will probably trigger an auditing action from hostmasters. It is correct that if the netname attribute in the inetnum object in the RIPE database changes or if you intend to combine multiple assignments into one object in the future, you are required to inform the RIPE NCC. All LIRs are informed of this as they receive their approval for an assignment from the RIPE NCC. However, any contact details, telephone numbers, names etc can be changed without having to inform the RIPE NCC. As it is a public database, the responsibility of the information entered in the database, lies with whoever has entered the the data in the database. (As Hans-Petter points out, it would be practically impossible for the RIPE NCC to keep track of all changes made to all inetnum objects in the database.) * Is this correct ? * I assume RIPE NCC keep internal records for allocations to LIRs but I can't * really see how they could practically do this for assignments from LIRs to * their customers ? * * I see a lot of perfectly good reasons for a LIR to do such changes * (without any particular need for consulting the RIPE NCC): * - the company has changed its name (i.e. same legal entity, new name) * - the company has been merged with another legal entity. (i.e. new legal * entity) * - the company splits of its internet operations to a separate legal entity * and so on... * * As many if not all of these scenarios are likely change the initial * criteria for the assignment there is likely to be a need for the LIR to * review the assignment as if the company requested new or additional address * space. Indeed. To quote the RIPE document "European Internet Registry Policies and Procedures": "Assignments of any kind of address space are valid as long as the original criteria on which the assignment was based are still valid. If an assignment is made for a specific purpose and the purpose no longer exists, then the assignment is no longer valid. If an assignment is based on information that turns out to be invalid so is the assignment." (http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-185.html#toc17) In other words, the *approved netname* and *size of the assignment* cannot be changed without contacting the RIPE NCC as this would entail a change of the original criteria of the assignment. * Whether or not consultation with the RIPE NCC is * needed or not would depend on whether the assignment falls within the LIRs * current assignment window or not. This is also correct. If the assignments fall within your Assignment Window you are not required to inform the RIPE NCC of the changes (as these assignments do not have to be approved by the RIPE NCC, but fall within the responsibility of the LIR). (It is of course important to make sure your local records are up to date, should you be required to provide this information in the future to the RIPE NCC.) For you who are not familiar with the term "Assignment Window" I would recommend you to read the section 3.7 in "European Internet Registry Policies and Procedures": http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-185.html#toc39 * When that is said, it probably wont hurt to run the case trough the RIPE NCC * for a second opinion if you are in doubt. But it is likely to pay off to * have done the above mentioned review of the possibly changed assignment * criteria before doing so. * * -hph Hope this clarified the issue further. Best regards, -- Nurani Nimpuno Registration Services Manager RIPE NCC
Dear All Is the information on a inetnum object name to be mailed to hostmaster@ripe.net ? Best Regards Rasmus Helmich Tjantik A/S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nurani Nimpuno" <nurani@ripe.net> To: "Hans Petter Holen" <hph@online.no> Cc: <lir-wg@ripe.net> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Changing inetnum objects Dear all, Hans-Petter has already done a good job clarifying the question below, so I will simply add my additional comments from the RIPE NCC. "Hans Petter Holen" <hph@online.no> writes: * * ----- Original Message ----- * From: "Berislav Todorovic" <beri@EU.net> * To: "Herbert Baerten" <herbert@hostit.be> * Cc: <lir-wg@ripe.net> * Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 10:33 AM * Subject: Re: Changing inetnum objects * * * > On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, Herbert Baerten wrote: * > * > >> can one company foo.com request its LIR to change the company's inetnum * > >> (netname, description, tech-c) so it appears to belong to another * company * > >> bar.com? * > * > RIPE NCC keeps their own internal records on allocated/assigned address * > space. So, although you may modify anything you like in the RIPE * > Database, you'll get into conflicts with their internal records and * > that will probably trigger an auditing action from hostmasters. It is correct that if the netname attribute in the inetnum object in the RIPE database changes or if you intend to combine multiple assignments into one object in the future, you are required to inform the RIPE NCC. All LIRs are informed of this as they receive their approval for an assignment from the RIPE NCC. However, any contact details, telephone numbers, names etc can be changed without having to inform the RIPE NCC. As it is a public database, the responsibility of the information entered in the database, lies with whoever has entered the the data in the database. (As Hans-Petter points out, it would be practically impossible for the RIPE NCC to keep track of all changes made to all inetnum objects in the database.) * Is this correct ? * I assume RIPE NCC keep internal records for allocations to LIRs but I can't * really see how they could practically do this for assignments from LIRs to * their customers ? * * I see a lot of perfectly good reasons for a LIR to do such changes * (without any particular need for consulting the RIPE NCC): * - the company has changed its name (i.e. same legal entity, new name) * - the company has been merged with another legal entity. (i.e. new legal * entity) * - the company splits of its internet operations to a separate legal entity * and so on... * * As many if not all of these scenarios are likely change the initial * criteria for the assignment there is likely to be a need for the LIR to * review the assignment as if the company requested new or additional address * space. Indeed. To quote the RIPE document "European Internet Registry Policies and Procedures": "Assignments of any kind of address space are valid as long as the original criteria on which the assignment was based are still valid. If an assignment is made for a specific purpose and the purpose no longer exists, then the assignment is no longer valid. If an assignment is based on information that turns out to be invalid so is the assignment." (http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-185.html#toc17) In other words, the *approved netname* and *size of the assignment* cannot be changed without contacting the RIPE NCC as this would entail a change of the original criteria of the assignment. * Whether or not consultation with the RIPE NCC is * needed or not would depend on whether the assignment falls within the LIRs * current assignment window or not. This is also correct. If the assignments fall within your Assignment Window you are not required to inform the RIPE NCC of the changes (as these assignments do not have to be approved by the RIPE NCC, but fall within the responsibility of the LIR). (It is of course important to make sure your local records are up to date, should you be required to provide this information in the future to the RIPE NCC.) For you who are not familiar with the term "Assignment Window" I would recommend you to read the section 3.7 in "European Internet Registry Policies and Procedures": http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-185.html#toc39 * When that is said, it probably wont hurt to run the case trough the RIPE NCC * for a second opinion if you are in doubt. But it is likely to pay off to * have done the above mentioned review of the possibly changed assignment * criteria before doing so. * * -hph Hope this clarified the issue further. Best regards, -- Nurani Nimpuno Registration Services Manager RIPE NCC
Hi Rasmus, You send the updated object to <auto-dbm@ripe.net>. In a separate e-mail to <hostmaster@ripe.net>, you can inform us of the change. Remember to add the relevant ticket number of the original request so that we will know which network you are referring to (if you don't it'll be put at the bottom of the wait queue). As Nurani pointed out before, if the assignment was within your AW, there is no need to inform us of the change to the object. Cheers, Eamonn McGuinness RIPE NCC Hostmaster "RIPE NCC - One of the largest Regional Registries in the World" In message <002801c01bfd$b44572e0$6600000a@tjantik.dk>you write:
Dear All
Is the information on a inetnum object name to be mailed to hostmaster@ripe.net ?
Best Regards Rasmus Helmich Tjantik A/S
----- Original Message ----- From: "Nurani Nimpuno" <nurani@ripe.net> To: "Hans Petter Holen" <hph@online.no> Cc: <lir-wg@ripe.net> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Changing inetnum objects
Dear all,
Hans-Petter has already done a good job clarifying the question below, so I will simply add my additional comments from the RIPE NCC.
"Hans Petter Holen" <hph@online.no> writes: * * ----- Original Message ----- * From: "Berislav Todorovic" <beri@EU.net> * To: "Herbert Baerten" <herbert@hostit.be> * Cc: <lir-wg@ripe.net> * Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 10:33 AM * Subject: Re: Changing inetnum objects * * * > On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, Herbert Baerten wrote: * > * > >> can one company foo.com request its LIR to change the company's inetnum * > >> (netname, description, tech-c) so it appears to belong to another * company * > >> bar.com? * > * > RIPE NCC keeps their own internal records on allocated/assigned address * > space. So, although you may modify anything you like in the RIPE * > Database, you'll get into conflicts with their internal records and * > that will probably trigger an auditing action from hostmasters.
It is correct that if the netname attribute in the inetnum object in the RIPE database changes or if you intend to combine multiple assignments into one object in the future, you are required to inform the RIPE NCC. All LIRs are informed of this as they receive their approval for an assignment from the RIPE NCC.
However, any contact details, telephone numbers, names etc can be changed without having to inform the RIPE NCC. As it is a public database, the responsibility of the information entered in the database, lies with whoever has entered the the data in the database.
(As Hans-Petter points out, it would be practically impossible for the RIPE NCC to keep track of all changes made to all inetnum objects in the database.)
* Is this correct ? * I assume RIPE NCC keep internal records for allocations to LIRs but I can't * really see how they could practically do this for assignments from LIRs to * their customers ? * * I see a lot of perfectly good reasons for a LIR to do such changes * (without any particular need for consulting the RIPE NCC): * - the company has changed its name (i.e. same legal entity, new name) * - the company has been merged with another legal entity. (i.e. new legal * entity) * - the company splits of its internet operations to a separate legal entity * and so on... * * As many if not all of these scenarios are likely change the initial * criteria for the assignment there is likely to be a need for the LIR to * review the assignment as if the company requested new or additional address * space.
Indeed. To quote the RIPE document "European Internet Registry Policies and Procedures":
"Assignments of any kind of address space are valid as long as the original criteria on which the assignment was based are still valid. If an assignment is made for a specific purpose and the purpose no longer exists, then the assignment is no longer valid. If an assignment is based on information that turns out to be invalid so is the assignment."
(http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-185.html#toc17)
In other words, the *approved netname* and *size of the assignment* cannot be changed without contacting the RIPE NCC as this would entail a change of the original criteria of the assignment.
* Whether or not consultation with the RIPE NCC is * needed or not would depend on whether the assignment falls within the LIRs * current assignment window or not.
This is also correct. If the assignments fall within your Assignment Window you are not required to inform the RIPE NCC of the changes (as these assignments do not have to be approved by the RIPE NCC, but fall within the responsibility of the LIR).
(It is of course important to make sure your local records are up to date, should you be required to provide this information in the future to the RIPE NCC.)
For you who are not familiar with the term "Assignment Window" I would recommend you to read the section 3.7 in "European Internet Registry Policies and Procedures":
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-185.html#toc39
* When that is said, it probably wont hurt to run the case trough the RIPE NCC * for a second opinion if you are in doubt. But it is likely to pay off to * have done the above mentioned review of the possibly changed assignment * criteria before doing so. * * -hph
Hope this clarified the issue further.
Best regards,
-- Nurani Nimpuno Registration Services Manager RIPE NCC
Dear all, HPH do not mentioned one more important reason to change netname: you suddenly find your netname is used by somebody else - it's a lot of examples in RIPE database (NCC is among them :). inetnum could hardly be used as lookup key for search, because you'll get unpredicatable result and must read description and contact information to detect, is it the same network in different countries or same name is used by not related companies. IMHO, ticket # could substitute inetnum without any pain: you should contact RIPE NCC if ticket starts with NCC# and RIPE NCC will contact you if total address space with your own ticket is over AW. just my 0.02$ With best regards, Rimas Janusauskas, Vilnius University Hostmaster ______________________________________________________________________ P.O.Box 543 e-mail: rimas.janusauskas@sc.vu.lt LT-2024 Vilnius Lithuania fax/phone: +370 2 687188 ______________________________________________________________________ On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, Nurani Nimpuno wrote:
Dear all,
Hans-Petter has already done a good job clarifying the question below, so I will simply add my additional comments from the RIPE NCC.
"Hans Petter Holen" <hph@online.no> writes: * * ----- Original Message ----- * From: "Berislav Todorovic" <beri@EU.net> * To: "Herbert Baerten" <herbert@hostit.be> * Cc: <lir-wg@ripe.net> * Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 10:33 AM * Subject: Re: Changing inetnum objects * * * > On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, Herbert Baerten wrote: * > * > >> can one company foo.com request its LIR to change the company's inetnum * > >> (netname, description, tech-c) so it appears to belong to another * company * > >> bar.com? * > * > RIPE NCC keeps their own internal records on allocated/assigned address * > space. So, although you may modify anything you like in the RIPE * > Database, you'll get into conflicts with their internal records and * > that will probably trigger an auditing action from hostmasters.
It is correct that if the netname attribute in the inetnum object in the RIPE database changes or if you intend to combine multiple assignments into one object in the future, you are required to inform the RIPE NCC. All LIRs are informed of this as they receive their approval for an assignment from the RIPE NCC.
However, any contact details, telephone numbers, names etc can be changed without having to inform the RIPE NCC. As it is a public database, the responsibility of the information entered in the database, lies with whoever has entered the the data in the database.
(As Hans-Petter points out, it would be practically impossible for the RIPE NCC to keep track of all changes made to all inetnum objects in the database.)
* Is this correct ? * I assume RIPE NCC keep internal records for allocations to LIRs but I can't * really see how they could practically do this for assignments from LIRs to * their customers ? * * I see a lot of perfectly good reasons for a LIR to do such changes * (without any particular need for consulting the RIPE NCC): * - the company has changed its name (i.e. same legal entity, new name) * - the company has been merged with another legal entity. (i.e. new legal * entity) * - the company splits of its internet operations to a separate legal entity * and so on... * * As many if not all of these scenarios are likely change the initial * criteria for the assignment there is likely to be a need for the LIR to * review the assignment as if the company requested new or additional address * space.
Indeed. To quote the RIPE document "European Internet Registry Policies and Procedures":
"Assignments of any kind of address space are valid as long as the original criteria on which the assignment was based are still valid. If an assignment is made for a specific purpose and the purpose no longer exists, then the assignment is no longer valid. If an assignment is based on information that turns out to be invalid so is the assignment."
(http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-185.html#toc17)
In other words, the *approved netname* and *size of the assignment* cannot be changed without contacting the RIPE NCC as this would entail a change of the original criteria of the assignment.
* Whether or not consultation with the RIPE NCC is * needed or not would depend on whether the assignment falls within the LIRs * current assignment window or not.
This is also correct. If the assignments fall within your Assignment Window you are not required to inform the RIPE NCC of the changes (as these assignments do not have to be approved by the RIPE NCC, but fall within the responsibility of the LIR).
(It is of course important to make sure your local records are up to date, should you be required to provide this information in the future to the RIPE NCC.)
For you who are not familiar with the term "Assignment Window" I would recommend you to read the section 3.7 in "European Internet Registry Policies and Procedures":
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-185.html#toc39
* When that is said, it probably wont hurt to run the case trough the RIPE NCC * for a second opinion if you are in doubt. But it is likely to pay off to * have done the above mentioned review of the possibly changed assignment * criteria before doing so. * * -hph
Hope this clarified the issue further.
Best regards,
-- Nurani Nimpuno Registration Services Manager RIPE NCC
participants (8)
-
Berislav Todorovic -
Eamonn McGuinness -
Hans Petter Holen -
Herbert Baerten -
kevin.bates＠bt.com -
Nurani Nimpuno -
Rasmus Helmich -
Rimas Janusauskas