Re: [ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting
"V" == Vladimir Lebedev <wal@rtsnet.ru> writes: V> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:51:55 +0300 V> To: lir-wg@ripe.net V> Cc: joker@rtsnet.ru, ant@rtsnet.ru, igor@rtsnet.ru
V> Alexei Platonov wrote:
According to Sergey Gulchuck:
Many people of ex-USSR countries speak Russian and ( for now ) not so many speak English ( alas! ). Thus language selection matters something too.
I'm wondering why Moscovites try to decide something for other people.
^^^^^^^^^^ This is the English translation for "Moskali" ?
May be we shall stop this discussion which is interesting for just a few people from the list? The Ukrainian ISPs introduced their coordinated decision and in fact you have nothing to add. Or may be you have too much free time ?
V> Looking at the large number of replies on the [ripe-167] topic I think that number V> of people who interested in this discussion is not just "few". Moreover, in this V> discussion participating peolple not only from CIS countries, but all over the V> Europe. V> I'm looking at the discussion and it reminds me a situation in FidoNet at the early V> 90th. There was a try to separate CIS countries netwokrs from Europe! Our V> "independent" Moscow's guys wanted to create Zone 7 for CIS, independend from Zone 2 V> (Europe) with own Zone Coordinator and all other attributes of power, for example V> rights to assign Fido network numbers for geographical regions. Formal reasons was V> absolutely the same: language issues, time zone difference etc., etc. Thanks God, V> that "coup" was unseccussful. V> Now the history repeating, but at this time with Internet. I hope the finish of the V> story will be the same. Well, history never repeats the same exactly. Just something in common with the past; often appearance but not the actual reasons. Yes, there seems to be something in common here. Far not everything, however. First, now we ( ISPs ) have a pretty simple dilemma: A) we ( I mean the Association ) takes the control or B) our government does it. Do you need any more comments ? V> I want to make clear for the audience the real reason of this "independance V> movement": MONOPOLIZATION OF IP NETWORK ADDRESSES ASSIGNMENT IN RUSSIA AND OTHER CIS V> COUNTRIES BY ROSNIIROS (RIPN). V> RIPN had already monopolized the domain name delegation under ".ru", and the only V> thing this they doesn't hove at this time is control under the network addresses. Nope. Here you are wrong. RIPN had monopolized RU. Internic had monopolized COM, NET, ORG and EDU. RIPE had monopolized a big block of IP address space. God had monopolized the Universe. How far it is possible to get thinking that way ? V> If they receive this control, can you imagine the amount of money that will be V> "informally" squezeed from russian LIR's for the good relationship from the RIPN V> side? I can. It always was a favorite habit of some kind of people -- to dream about money in a neighbour's pocket. Was that an argument? Anyway, not so much money as you can imagine. And rather earned, not "squeezed". How about thinking for "If I were Bill Gates..."? Or it is better first to learn something about matters before speaking of them? V> Vladimir. V> Content-Description: Card for Vladimir Lebedev V> begin: vcard V> fn: Vladimir Lebedev V> n: Lebedev;Vladimir V> org: RTS Technical Center V> adr: 15, Chayanova str., bldg. 5;;3rd floor;Moscow;;125267;Russia V> email;internet: wal@rtsnet.ru V> title: Technical Director V> tel;work: +7 (095) 733 95 05 V> tel;fax: +7 (095) 733 95 15 V> note: ICQ #: 6857070 V> x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 V> x-mozilla-html: TRUE V> version: 2.1 V> end: vcard V> Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sergey A. Mukhin | violet@rosnet.net Network Administrator | http://violet.rosnet.net/ Russian Telecommunications Network | Tel: + 7 095 206 62 15 Moscow, Russia | + 7 095 755 85 88 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * If you can't learn do it well learn to enjoy doing it badly. * ------------------------------------------------------------------------
I collected more than 100 mail about your quarrels. Now I got bored by all that spamming. Senders of these mail are always the same: why don't you write each other without flooding half Europe? Thanks in advance Regards Peppino Anselmi
Yes, there seems to be something in common here. Far not everything, however.
First, now we ( ISPs ) have a pretty simple dilemma: A) we ( I mean the
_Which_ ISPs? I mean, ISPs in _what_ country? Russia?
Association ) takes the control or B) our government does it.
_Which_ government? Russian?
Do you need any more comments ?
Oh, yea, am I getting you right that in order to deal with your government you need to take all of FSU with you? (BTW that's what Dima Burkov said during Moscow meeting). I repeat it for the n-th time now: If you substitute "Russia" for "CIS" everywhere, then all your arguments and viewpoints become much stronger. Maybe it's beneficial to do this at last?
V> I want to make clear for the audience the real reason of this "independance V> movement": MONOPOLIZATION OF IP NETWORK ADDRESSES ASSIGNMENT IN RUSSIA AND OTHER CIS V> COUNTRIES BY ROSNIIROS (RIPN). V> RIPN had already monopolized the domain name delegation under ".ru", and the only V> thing this they doesn't hove at this time is control under the network addresses.
Nope. Here you are wrong. RIPN had monopolized RU. Internic had monopolized COM, NET, ORG and EDU. RIPE had monopolized a big block of IP address space. God had monopolized the Universe. How far it is possible to get thinking that way ?
Yeah, but God had already existed when I was born or so they say. And I had not chance to express my consent w.r.t. His existence. Do you want to create another God? ;)))))
V> If they receive this control, can you imagine the amount of money that will be V> "informally" squezeed from russian LIR's for the good relationship from the RIPN V> side? I can.
It always was a favorite habit of some kind of people -- to dream about money in a neighbour's pocket. Was that an argument?
If these money come from my pocket, then I'll probably ask what I've paid for.
-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sergey A. Mukhin | violet@rosnet.net Network Administrator | http://violet.rosnet.net/ Russian Telecommunications Network | Tel: + 7 095 206 62 15 Moscow, Russia | + 7 095 755 85 88 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * If you can't learn do it well learn to enjoy doing it badly. * ------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Igor Romanenko @..@ Office: igor@lucky.net, +380-(44)-290-03-48 (----) Home: igor@frog.kiev.ua ( | | ) http://www.lucky.net/~igor/ " " "On the Internet nobody knows you are a Frog"
On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Sergey A. Mukhin wrote:
First, now we ( ISPs ) have a pretty simple dilemma: A) we ( I mean the Association ) takes the control or B) our government does it. Do you need any more comments ?
Yep. What has Ukraine (and ISP from here) to do with your, Russian goverment? We have ours, thank you.
Nope. Here you are wrong. RIPN had monopolized RU. Internic had monopolized COM, NET, ORG and EDU. RIPE had monopolized a big block of IP address space. God had monopolized the Universe. How far it is possible to get thinking that way ?
We can and agree to live with the current state of affairs. Why try to repair something not recognized as "broken" by anyone but you? P.S. Please take my sincere apologies, I already decided to stop this discussion here, but couldn't resist, this message from Moscow was so bright and remarkably clear. :) Now I'm shutting up promptly... :))
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sergey A. Mukhin | violet@rosnet.net Network Administrator | http://violet.rosnet.net/ Russian Telecommunications Network | Tel: + 7 095 206 62 15 Moscow, Russia | + 7 095 755 85 88 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * If you can't learn do it well learn to enjoy doing it badly. * ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best regards, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE
participants (4)
-
Andrew Stesin -
Igor Romanenko -
Peppino Anselmi -
Sergey A. Mukhin